Owning CGC grade comic vs original art...

[Nexus]

basic steps.......

 

pencils are undertaken

inker inks pencils

art is checked and signed off or re-done and signed off

reduce line art (ink/pencils) to a4 size,

sent to artist for colouring (one only)

sent to printer for replication

printer sends a production proof for checking (either a single page or a progressive proof containing the four printing colour proofs and a one combined).

proof is checked and signed off or amended and re-run and then signed off

printer produces a final number of test covers (these are exact covers with inside ads etc) for final checking.

comic book is produced.

 

I can give examples of all this when I get some time.

 

In general the OA devotees only recognise step one and two as being important.....however, if you have ever seen a hand coloured piece like

Tomahawk #135 where a key element of the cover is not present on the prelims then it would be hard to argue against the relevance of the piece in the final comic book.......

 

As OA people trivialise anything after the inks I have set myself the task of opposing this wave of ignorance..........and I have a big advantage in that I already know that my [embarrassing lack of self control] stinks........

 

Actually, you're leaving out quite a lot:

 

The wood pulp that the art board was made from.

The pencil that was used to draw the art.

The ink that was used to ink the art.

The trimmings from the proofs.

 

There's a lot more to OA collecting, you snob!

[Bronty]

Damn good points mushroom and paull... I have to agree. I like paull's point about the colorist being the penciler and inker.. e.g. BWS. Given the uniqueness of his coloring style it really would be hard to consider the production art to say a Machine Man 2020 cover complete without the colors..

[scourge456789-migration]

You guys surely are joking? The market for Original comic art is going up year after year whIle comics, are, well, eh?

 

Your points are mere theoretical babble that the market doesnt really pay attention to. Call the ART whatever you want. There is no denying the fact that the demand for it is GROWING.

[rob_react]

You guys surely are joking? The market for Original comic art is going up year after year whIle comics, are, well, eh?

 

Who's talking about comics? It looks to me like we're in the middle of an impromptu defense of color guides as "Art" with a capital A.

[*paull*]

I'm not making any kind of wild assessment of color guides as high art (or original production line art for that matter), but I am saying that in many cases, the color guides were a part of the vision of the penciller and shouldn't be discounted.

[scourge456789-migration]

You guys surely are joking? The market for Original comic art is going up year after year whIle comics, are, well, eh?

 

Who's talking about comics? It looks to me like we're in the middle of an impromptu defense of color guides as "Art" with a capital A.

 

I was merely hitting the main issue of the thread's topic. The color guide argument is a smoke and mirror argument being used to undermine OA as art. The argument has 'no legs' and I wont even address it.

[rob_react]

I'm not making any kind of wild assessment of color guides as high art (or original production line art for that matter), but I am saying that in many cases, the color guides were a part of the vision of the penciller and shouldn't be discounted.

 

Well, if the penciler was lucky and the colorist actually cared what he thought, then you've got a great point. Even in the days when the colorist was a brutal, no talent hack filling in enclosed spaces, they shouldn't necessarily be discounted (although, personally, I have no interest in the stuff in 99.999% of all cases).

 

That said, my reading of mushroom's posts here is exactly what I wrote above- a defense of color guides as "Art" with a capital A, meaning it's AS important (maybe more? I can't tell if he's 100% serious) as the original line art. It does help that he's argued as much elsewhere, so I'm not piecing his opinion together from this thread.

[rob_react]

You guys surely are joking? The market for Original comic art is going up year after year whIle comics, are, well, eh?

 

Who's talking about comics? It looks to me like we're in the middle of an impromptu defense of color guides as "Art" with a capital A.

 

I was merely hitting the main issue of the thread's topic. The color guide argument is a smoke and mirror argument being used to undermine OA as art. The argument has 'no legs' and I wont even address it.

 

No. The color guide argument is NOT smoke and mirrors where mushroom is concerned. He's VERY PASSIONATE about them and is being completely serious in this thread.

[scourge456789-migration]

You guys surely are joking? The market for Original comic art is going up year after year whIle comics, are, well, eh?

 

Who's talking about comics? It looks to me like we're in the middle of an impromptu defense of color guides as "Art" with a capital A.

 

I was merely hitting the main issue of the thread's topic. The color guide argument is a smoke and mirror argument being used to undermine OA as art. The argument has 'no legs' and I wont even address it.

 

No. The color guide argument is NOT smoke and mirrors where mushroom is concerned. He's VERY PASSIONATE about them and is being completely serious in this thread.

 

Really? OK, then shroom has the market cornered for the day that anyone learns to give a rats arse. Maybe one day he will make a fortune. But, I dont think so.

[Timulty]

I view color guides one level above prints.

[Thomas]

I view color guides one level above prints.

 

 

I kind of partially agree although I don't know if I'd go that far. I don't own any colour guides although I almost bid on one that was on ebay recently from Cosmic Odyssey just to have one piece of the actual production process of a comic. Almost.

 

Who knows, most of us may be like people were back in the day with original art and thinking it's useless. You never know.

[Mushroom]

You guys surely are joking? The market for Original comic art is going up year after year whIle comics, are, well, eh?

 

Who's talking about comics? It looks to me like we're in the middle of an impromptu defense of color guides as "Art" with a capital A.

 

I was merely hitting the main issue of the thread's topic. The color guide argument is a smoke and mirror argument being used to undermine OA as art. The argument has 'no legs' and I wont even address it.

 

No. The color guide argument is NOT smoke and mirrors where mushroom is concerned. He's VERY PASSIONATE about them and is being completely serious in this thread.

 

Really? OK, then shroom has the market cornered for the day that anyone learns to give a rats arse. Maybe one day he will make a fortune. But, I dont think so.

 

Haven't you been banned yet KK? I truly wish you would just dry up and blow away. Your myopic diatribes and carnival like hawking of pencils and inks do more damage to their reputation than good and it really just goes to show how very little you feel for the delivered end product. Why are you in this hobby? Is it for money only? I am not cornering the market on anything.....I just feel lucky that I can have something very important in the comic book process for a relatively small amount of money. They will never be for sale while I am alive as the joy I get from looking at them (I would go through all my folders at least once a month) is endless. I truly never tire of them.

 

Go and peddle your tripe elsewhere and keep out of my threads..............

[*paull*]

I'm not making a blanket statement that all color guides are valuable and of high quality. Most were done by in-house production people, particularly before the 70s. However, there are a few artists who colored their own work, and the colors were a huge factor in the final product.... BWS and Steranko come to mind.

 

Timulty, I'm sure I could show you color guides that would change your mind about them being one step above prints.

[Mushroom]

I view color guides one level above prints.

 

How many covers have you seen? What do you define as a colour guide? Is it some hack painting by numbers?

 

It amazes me that the people who discount so quickly truly have no idea as to their beauty.

 

I will put this one up again..........and yes I now own it and it is even more beautiful in hand....

 

 

 

Neil Adams has been quoted as saying that he only ever wanted Jack Adler to do his colours (and yes this is painted.......not crayons......not inks......not gouache)

 

[*paull*]

Terrific piece, Mushroom!

[Timulty]

Yes, very nice. And that is considered a color guide? The few, I have seen look like prints with color touch ups.

[*paull*]

A color guide is typically a stat of the original page which is then colored with watercolors/marker/whatever.

[heartened]

I view color guides one level above prints.

 

How many covers have you seen? What do you define as a colour guide? Is it some hack painting by numbers?

 

It amazes me that the people who discount so quickly truly have no idea as to their beauty.

 

I will put this one up again..........and yes I now own it and it is even more beautiful in hand....

 

 

 

Neil Adams has been quoted as saying that he only ever wanted Jack Adler to do his colours (and yes this is painted.......not crayons......not inks......not gouache)

 

 

Hi Mushroom,

 

While I enjoy the black and white art more, and feel the size of it and the linework make it all the more appealing, I respect the fact that the color is equally important in the process of making a comic book. Every part of the process is important, in fact! So, everyone should just collect what they like. These arguments really are pointless, unless you put the financial/investment aspect into it. And, for me (and it sounds for you too), that part of it is a small part at best.

 

Nice color guide, by the way!

[*paull*]

That's a good attitude, Hari. I'm with you... I collect what I like and don't really care what other people think. As for color guides, if other people don't value them, great for me... keeps the price down.

[Mushroom]

To be honest I am not arguing at all. What I am trying to achieve is to get the equal right to display beautiful comic related items. I have fought against OA snobbery and ignorance on these boards and have had to debate against (KK) and others who have seen a couple of 1990's spidey hologram proof covers or a couple of hand coloured pieces that look like my seven year old did it.

 

It is too easy for people on the boards to knock what they don't collect or feel is not important.......I will start my own thread soon and it will be in the OA section of the boards and all I would ask is if people are interested then enjoy the offerings and if they don't then don't open the thread.