A General Plea/Observation-Mile High

[PovertyRow]

It isn't that radical an idea, either. CGC suddenly eliminated the use of the Alpha grades (G, VG, etc) and went soley with the numeric grade. It raised some flack but the alpha grades have been in use longer than any pedigree collection.

 

That's a terrible example. The major pedigrees are more ingrained in the hobby psyche than tinkering of CGC labels.

 

Jim

 

No, it is not a terrible example. The Alpha grades are amoung the earliest of established nomenclature for comic books. They have been in use long before the word pedigree even was related to comic books. My example was to simply show how convention can be so easily modified. And we all know that the CGC collectors, buyers and sellers represent some of the most highly informed comic book collectors.

 

And another thing not so far looked at in much or any depth: a pedigree is directly related to provenance, not just in comic books but in all forms of art and collectibles. Provenance is directly realted to the person who owned/assembled the collection, not the person who ended up buying it from the original collector.

 

At this poont it seems the comic book world is working on an inaccurate perception of what "pedigree" actually means. It would be like naming the Hearst anitque collection the Gimbles Collection because a lot of his antiques were sold at Gimbles.

[awe4one]

No, it is not a terrible example. The Alpha grades are amoung the earliest of established nomenclature for comic books. They have been in use long before the word pedigree even was related to comic books. My example was to simply show how convention can be so easily modified.

 

But only CGC has decided not to use them. Most all collectors still do. Just because CGC decided tio drop them from the label didn't make the nomenclature any less relevent or useful. The nomenclature has become ingrained in collecting just like the major pedigrees. Little changes by CGC, though notable, doesn't change the fact collectors still follow and use the alpha grades. OS still uses the codes and I'd find your example more applicable if they dropped them, not CGC...

 

And another thing not so far looked at in much or any depth: a pedigree is directly related to provenance, not just in comic books but in all forms of art and collectibles. Provenance is directly realted to the person who owned/assembled the collection, not the person who ended up buying it from the original collector.

 

Back tracking and second guessing isn't doing anyone a service in my opinion. Church is as well connected to the MH collection as one can be. Both names signify a remarkable find and should stay as is. If any future notable collections are uncovered, we can go tothemarketdownthestreetforsomeCRAZY and give the original owner his name in lights. To go back and rename pedigrees will cause confusion and isn't really necessary...

 

At this poont it seems the comic book world is working on an inaccurate perception of what "pedigree" actually means.

 

I agree 100% here...and we can start by coming together as a hobby and establishing the true pedigrees. Afterwards, CGC can stop cluttering the market with all these useless collection monikers on the labels intended to place added importance to a customer's comic than is merited, This is a big problem and needs to be fixed or ALL pedigrees will suffer in so far as their importance is concerned...

 

Jim

[PovertyRow]

Afterwards, CGC can stop cluttering the market with all these useless collection monikers on the labels intended to place added importance to a customer's comic than is merited, This is a big problem and needs to be fixed or ALL pedigrees will suffer in so far as their importance is concerned...

 

[garthgantu]

I always try to refer to the collection in question as "The Church Collection" or "The Church Pedigree." Having pedigrees named after the dealer who found the collection is ridiculous. In most cases - including Chuckles - the dealer simply had the books brought to his attention and then proceeded to turn those books into money. How is that deserving of any ongoing recognition? It's the person who put in the time and effort - and passion - to keep the books pristine all those years, who deserves some ongoing appreciation. Especially since in most cases, the collector didn't even benefit monetarily from their collection!

[drbanner]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Are there are any collectors or dealers out there that associate the Mile High Comics stores with high-grade golden age comic books anyway? At one time I did, but boy was I disappointed years ago when the family was in Denver and I begged Dad to take me to "Mile High Comics"...what a bunch of krap!

[Norrin_Radd]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores.

 

Me too.

 

 

Are there are any collectors or dealers out there that associate the Mile High Comics stores with high-grade golden age comic books anyway? At one time I did, but boy was I disappointed years ago when the family was in Denver and I begged Dad to take me to "Mile High Comics"...what a bunch of krap!

 

I lived in Denver for 2 years, but never made it to a Mile High store. Now I'm kinda glad I didn't bother.

[PovertyRow]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

[greggy]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

[deathlok]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

 

...and the Cosmic Aeroplane is neither from Outer Space nor was it found within an Aeroplane.

[greggy]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

 

...and the Cosmic Aeroplane is neither from Outer Space nor was it found within an Aeroplane.

It is the name of the store that got the scraps after the good part of the collection was sold.

[deathlok]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

 

...and the Cosmic Aeroplane is neither from Outer Space nor was it found within an Aeroplane.

It is the name of the store that got the scraps after the good part of the collection was sold.

Oh sure, be informative. Don't you have supplies you need to go steal from work?

[PovertyRow]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

 

I was directly addressing the question alluding to Chuck and the term Mile High, Greggy. But thank you for your thoughtful and, as always, relevant input. You are a swill guy!!!!

[deathlok]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

 

I was directly addressing the question alluding to Chuck and the term Mile High, Greggy. But thank you for your thoughtful and, as always, relevant input. You are a swill guy!!!!

I think you meant irrelevant input.

[jbud73]

Describe your books as MH on e-bay and 75% of the audience knows what type of books you have. I'm not sure calling them "Edgar Church' books has the same effect.

I'd agree with you if it was thirty years ago,but too much time has pased,imo.

Besides ,if you were to call these books Edgar Church books,there would be no MH collection,so the MH2 books wouldn't need to carry a "2" on them,totally confusing everyone.

 

But the MH2 is probably the biggest blight in the whole fiasco. Here Chuck got CGC to go from Colllection designation to Pedigree designation, or at least thats what the label notation is consistent with. Plese someone produce the master list of the MH2 - Burtboy's books blow these away

 

Shadroch's post just illustrates how Chuck was able to influence the hobby over the years and get the nomenclature and collective psyche to tacitly accept Mile High as a suitable designation for the Church books to the point where it has supplanted it in some instances. Just because this is the case does not make it right.

[deathlok]

Please someone produce the master list of the MH2 - Burtboy's books blow these away

[jbud73]

MH2 = Chuck bought a few pallets of Copper / Bronze filler issues pedigree.

[deathlok]

MH2 = Chuck bought a few pallets of Copper / Bronze filler issues pedigree.

 

Which included many, many 9.9 and 9.8 White page copies. How many of Burntboy's books are of this quality?

[PedigreeMan]

I've always considered Mile High to be a geographical reference to the "Mile High City" in which the collection was found, not a reference to the name of the chain of stores...Mile High Stadium isn't/wasn't named after Chuckie's store, is/was it?

 

Chuck got his so called "Mile High 2" collection in New York. Just something to ponder.

So...the Denver pedigree wasn't from the area. Why not argue for the change of this name?

 

...and the Cosmic Aeroplane is neither from Outer Space nor was it found within an Aeroplane.

It is the name of the store that got the scraps after the good part of the collection was sold.

 

 

WTF are you smoking troll? Cosmic Aeroplane got all of Holt's books in two batches -- one in the early '70s and one in the mid '70s.

 

And where did you get that the Denver pedigree wasn't amassed in Denver?

 

And like Jeff pointed out, it's "Reilly," not "O'Reilly." And one of the big issues Beerbohm has with the pedigree being called "San Francisco" is that the damn books spent little (no?) time in San Francisco. "Piedmont" would be a more appropriate appellation.

 

And one fan ("adamstrange") said he "guessed that Salida just sounded cooler" not that it "was cooler." Big difference, and it's a far cry from the "fans" (plural) of it saying such.

 

Seriously, Greggy, if you don't know what the hell you're talking about, you should probably just keep yer trap shut.

 

As for the topic proper? Either "Edgar Church" or "Mile High" is acceptable. I prefer to use "Edgar Church" because it's a more reverential name for the greatest pedigree in the history of comics, but I don't berate myself or others for using the term "Mile High."

 

Alan

[sfilosa]

MH2 = Chuck bought a few pallets of Copper / Bronze filler issues pedigree.

 

 

 

Slow down....

 

 

The MH2 collection is by far the largest accumulation of high grade books ever bought. The problem is that most of these books have been sold over the past 15 years and there is NO WAY to actually identify these. Yes, Chuck gave out certicates for some, but there is really no way of verifying if the book is from the collection (i.e. many books from this time period are in HG, and there are no unique markings).

 

Because Chuck had some remaining (i.e. unsold the past 15 years), he was able to convince CGC that these should have Mile High 2 on the CGC label (as he could vouch that ALL of these were from the WAREHOUSE PURCHASE).

 

I have no problem with this, as it will be up to the MARKET to determine if that adds any value to the book.

[FFB]

MH2 = Chuck bought a few pallets of Copper / Bronze filler issues pedigree.

 

 

 

Slow down....

 

 

The MH2 collection is by far the largest accumulation of high grade books ever bought. The problem is that most of these books have been sold over the past 15 years and there is NO WAY to actually identify these. Yes, Chuck gave out certicates for some, but there is really no way of verifying if the book is from the collection (i.e. many books from this time period are in HG, and there are no unique markings).

 

Because Chuck had some remaining (i.e. unsold the past 15 years), he was able to convince CGC that these should have Mile High 2 on the CGC label (as he could vouch that ALL of these were from the WAREHOUSE PURCHASE).

 

I have no problem with this, as it will be up to the MARKET to determine if that adds any value to the book.

 

Though I agree with you generally, there is the danger that CGC's decision to note this "pedigree" on the label will give it an air of legitimacy that it never previously had. In that way, the market is not freely giving these books the value they deserve. The ignorant part of the market is being manipulated into believing that the MH2 books are of equal stature with other pedigree copies that are properly recognized as special collections.

 

How's that for a value judgment?