Do comics ever go down in price?

[delekkerste]

In America and Europe, you cannot walk into a store and buy something with a gold bar. It has ceased to be a medium of exchange in the civilized world. It is only a store of value. Comics can be a store of value also.

 

You're right that just about anything can be a store of value, but some assets are better suited to the task than others. An ounce of gold, which has been appreciated by mankind for some 5000 years, can be readily converted into cash in virtually any corner of the globe, from Tashkent to Tasmania. It is a nearly universal store of value.

 

Obviously there are people out there, like Shadroch, who are using comics as a store of value and investment, and expect to be able to monetize their collections to fund a good portion of their retirement needs. No doubt that this has not proven to be a bad strategy to date, assuming one was smart enough to stick with HG Silver and Bronze and avoided the numerous pitfalls (e.g., Valiant comics in the early 1990s, early top-graded CGCs like PPSS #1 CGC 9.8s at $760, etc.) along the way. I think, though, that after the run-up we've had and all the variables turning the other way in the coming years that I foresee, that this strategy is not one for the future. Just my opinion, but we'll see who's right in 15 years. No need to debate it further ad nauseum here.

[jbud73]

As for your second point, I totally disagree. There are plenty of things that may bring you $10k worth of pleasure. That's a bit subjective and ultimately difficult to prove, but conceptually, I don't agree with your point.

 

Im trying to think of smething that is "worth" 10K worth odf pleasure. Closets I can come to is 1000 blewjubs at $10 a pop. But while thats a joke, it points the the farcical nature of the queston.

 

please DEFINE 10K worth of pleasure? other than paying 10K for something that is generally perceived to be valued at 10K and is something that gives you pleasure. Could be ANYTHING, couldnt it? Unless you personally think SOME things are worth it, and other arent, but then youd be judging anothers' tastes...

 

The concept of Utility, which is what I believe you are both discussing is a valid concept, though very difficult to measure accurately over long periods because it is an independent concepts IE by definition it does not stay constant for very long.

[Norrin_Radd]

I also reserve the recognition that this market has had quite a few surprises up its sleeve -- at least since I first entered into it some 17 years ago.

 

For this reason, I'm always skeptical towards any blanket statement that places collectors in the middle of any so-called heyday of "comic values" -- a discussion that seems to arise anytime the market reveals any signs of protracted stability, upturn or growth.

 

That is my thinking as well. I remember when many economists and market analysts were all doom and gloom in the late 80s saying that America was going to go down the tubes due to "parabolic" spikes in deficit spending and excess corporate debt. That included a very successful stock investor Jimmy Rogers (former partner of George Soros). If you has listened to the interviews he did at the time, you would have sold all of your stocks and put your money into a Swiss bank (because the dollar was going to absolutely collapse so you didn't want your money in a US bank).

 

And look how well that would have worked out for you. You would have missed out on an even larger bull market than the 80s.

 

The point being that they were dead wrong because they failed to take into account factors that were not visible at the time they were making their forecasts were going to drastically change the market. They simply extrapolated out that if conditions stayed the same that things were going to get worse.

 

Trying to forecast whether comics prices will go up or down is fraught with problems. But the historical trend has been up over every decade, so I am apt to believe that trend will continue.

[shrunkenhead]

Obviously there are people out there, like Shadroch, who are using comics as a store of value and investment, and expect to be able to monetize their collections to fund a good portion of their retirement needs. No doubt that this has not proven to be a bad strategy to date, assuming one was smart enough to stick with HG Silver and Bronze and avoided the numerous pitfalls (e.g., Valiant comics in the early 1990s, early top-graded CGCs like PPSS #1 CGC 9.8s at $760, etc.) along the way. I think, though, that after the run-up we've had and all the variables turning the other way in the coming years that I foresee, that this strategy is not one for the future. Just my opinion, but we'll see who's right in 15 years. No need to debate it further ad nauseum here.

 

It's interesting to me that so many collectors see this era of comic collecting as the last frontier for big profits. It's true, the days of putting in a dime and getting back thousands decades later are over, and they're never coming back. But is it impossible that comic collecting (and in particular, collecting big-ticket books) is in its infancy as opposed to its decline? It seems to me that comics, when compared to sports cards, stamps, coins, etc., have a lot of growing up to do. And I might be wrong about this, but I believe that comics generally have fewer huge-dollar items to offer than these other hobbies. As just about everyone here has said, the future of comics is wholly uncertain. But I think their fragility coupled with their pop-culture appeal will keep them on the upswing in the long run, though perhaps not without many dips along the road.

[hobbes]

Those are all things important to the dicussion. I am simply raising the notion that once a book is acquired, there is little appreciation for it. Where is the value in it? I haven't heard anyone explain why they value their books so much... why it is worth it to them to pay huge sums of money for something they rarely look at. Why is it so valuable to them?

 

It seems that most comic collectors are saying that there is something inherently valuable in their owning a particular book. If a book sits in that box, can anyone tell me what value they are receiving from it?

 

What I am bottom line questioning is whether comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure equal to their dollars invested... I see a lot of them as simply wanting to acquire the "next" book.

 

I believe the answer to this question is obvious - yes, or else they wouldn't be buying the book in the first place, right?

 

It seems what your really questioning is whether or not comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure that you perceive to be equal to their dollars invested...

 

Yes, what you are saying is partially true. My value judgment is being imposed inherently into the question itself. But I have been asking a broader question overall as well. What constitutes value? What is truly valuable? How should we value something that sits a box 99% of the time? Is it wise to spend a large proportion of our money on such things?

 

I agree with what you're saying. When I finally find the book I'm looking for it just goes into a box. I might take out my collection and look at it every now and then, but that's it. However, why do I feel the separation anxiety when my books are at CGC to be graded, or if I sell off a book I really liked. It's kind of like owning a car or a television set, you don't think about them until they're gone.

 

When I made my first several submissions to CGC I was shocked at how impatient I was waiting for my comics to come back. I would not say I was streesed but I definitely wanted my books back as quickly as possible

 

I think another reason why comic book collectors spend big money on certain books, is to show off. Why do millionaires spend millions of dollars on certain paintings or sculptures. I doubt if they even look at the piece everyday, but they do get that sense of accomplishment when they show it off to their friends. It's a lot more appealing and self satisfying than just saying here's my swiss account bank book, can you top that! Do we compete against each other to own better collections, of course. Do we show off our collections to get positive responses from others, definitely.

 

You know this paragraph right here made me realize something about my collection. No one looks at it but me. I mean absolutely no one.

[Aman619]

yeah, but think about it.....just who are you collecting for? You? or for others' approval? You colelct because YOU enjoy it. Why show it to anyone else? To show off? Why, they're not interested. Course you could invite other comics collectors to oooh and ahhh over your books...

[skybolt]

yeah, but think about it.....just who are you collecting for? You? or for others' approval? You colelct because YOU enjoy it. Why show it to anyone else? To show off? Why, they're not interested. Course you could invite other comics collectors to oooh and ahhh over your books...

 

I mostly collect comics for my own pleasure, but it does feel good to see others share in the same sickness, uhm...... I mean passion as I do. I also love hearing stories like the Dentist not wanting to part with his Action #1 for $2 million, or Mark spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on key HG GA books.

[Aman619]

right. Thats what I mean. among those of us who understand your sickness its all in the family. My family still laughs at silly dad and his funnbooks. but the kids have joked I should sell them for vaious worthy purchases over the years!!

[skybolt]

right. Thats what I mean. among those of us who understand your sickness its all in the family. My family still laughs at silly dad and his funnbooks. but the kids have joked I should sell them for vaious worthy purchases over the years!!

 

The funny thing is that when I purchased my ASM #1 CGC 8.0 for $9,500 (18 months ago), I told everyone in my family (brothers, relatives, friends) that I spent $1,000 on the book, so they wouldn't laugh at me too much. Even at $1,000 they were shocked. I did feel ashamed for doing this because it's a hobby I feel very passionate about and am proud of. If God forbid something happens to me, don't be too surprised if you see a CGC graded ASM #1 listed on Ebay for $1,000.

[Aman619]

"bragging" about the prices only leads to more head-scratching, not respect. sigh... I dont even go there. Sometimes a lay a few new HG key books in front of the wife and cant contain myself at the idea of tens of $$$s just sitting there and I'll blurt it out cause its so 'incongruous' that a couple of comisc are worth a years pay or whatever. She looks at me patronizingly like Im Jack and the Beanstalk or something crowing about my magic bean collection.

[shrunkenhead]

right. Thats what I mean. among those of us who understand your sickness its all in the family. My family still laughs at silly dad and his funnbooks. but the kids have joked I should sell them for vaious worthy purchases over the years!!

 

The funny thing is that when I purchased my ASM #1 CGC 8.0 for $9,500 (18 months ago), I told everyone in my family (brothers, relatives, friends) that I spent $1,000 on the book, so they wouldn't laugh at me too much. Even at $1,000 they were shocked. I did feel ashamed for doing this because it's a hobby I feel very passionate about and am proud of. If God forbid something happens to me, don't be too surprised if you see a CGC graded ASM #1 listed on Ebay for $1,000.

 

Ha! I've done that one too, fibbed about the price of things. I told a non-comic family member once that I spent $200 on a book that actually set me back about $1200 (was still a very good deal, though), just so that I wouldn't have to hear the rant and rave.

 

My dad used to collect comics in "the cheap years" and he used to give me some grief too about my spending, until I showed him an invoice of stuff that I'd sold off comiclink. Now he's my #1 supporter!

[skybolt]

"bragging" about the prices only leads to more head-scratching, not respect. sigh... I dont even go there. Sometimes a lay a few new HG key books in front of the wife and cant contain myself at the idea of tens of $$$s just sitting there and I'll blurt it out cause its so 'incongruous' that a couple of comisc are worth a years pay or whatever. She looks at me patronizingly like Im Jack and the Beanstalk or something crowing about my magic bean collection.

 

[skybolt]

right. Thats what I mean. among those of us who understand your sickness its all in the family. My family still laughs at silly dad and his funnbooks. but the kids have joked I should sell them for vaious worthy purchases over the years!!

 

The funny thing is that when I purchased my ASM #1 CGC 8.0 for $9,500 (18 months ago), I told everyone in my family (brothers, relatives, friends) that I spent $1,000 on the book, so they wouldn't laugh at me too much. Even at $1,000 they were shocked. I did feel ashamed for doing this because it's a hobby I feel very passionate about and am proud of. If God forbid something happens to me, don't be too surprised if you see a CGC graded ASM #1 listed on Ebay for $1,000.

 

Ha! I've done that one too, fibbed about the price of things. I told a non-comic family member once that I spent $200 on a book that actually set me back about $1200 (was still a very good deal, though), just so that I wouldn't have to hear the rant and rave.

 

My dad used to collect comics in "the cheap years" and he used to give me some grief too about my spending, until I showed him an invoice of stuff that I'd sold off comiclink. Now he's my #1 supporter!

 

Even when I sold my X-Men #101 CGC 9.4 book last year for $450 (that I'd purchased for $60 six months earlier), all I got was a look that told me, "wow, there's actually someone out there that's stupider than you are for collecting these funny books".

[Foolkiller]

$10 bj is the crack whore on the corner. that seems a bit cheap. .

 

anyway... I agree with your point that it's subjective in nature, but again, the very nature of your counter question, that anything could be worth $10k is true, and also illustrates my point as well. I just feel there's varying degrees of subjectivity inherent in the question.

 

When you spend $1k or $2k on a comic, what kind of feeling do you get?

 

As for your second point, I totally disagree. There are plenty of things that may bring you $10k worth of pleasure. That's a bit subjective and ultimately difficult to prove, but conceptually, I don't agree with your point.

 

Im trying to think of smething that is "worth" 10K worth odf pleasure. Closets I can come to is 1000 blewjubs at $10 a pop. But while thats a joke, it points the the farcical nature of the queston.

 

please DEFINE 10K worth of pleasure? other than paying 10K for something that is generally perceived to be valued at 10K and is something that gives you pleasure. Could be ANYTHING, couldnt it? Unless you personally think SOME things are worth it, and other arent, but then youd be judging anothers' tastes...

[hobbes]

Even when I sold my X-Men #101 CGC 9.4 book last year for $450 (that I'd purchased for $60 six months earlier), all I got was a look that told me, "wow, there's actually someone out there that's stupider than you are for collecting these funny books".

 

[skybolt]

When you spend $1k or $2k on a comic, what kind of feeling do you get?

 

I get a feeling of anxiety waiting for the damn thing to arrive safe and sound.

[hobbes]

yeah, but think about it.....just who are you collecting for? You? or for others' approval? You colelct because YOU enjoy it. Why show it to anyone else? To show off? Why, they're not interested. Course you could invite other comics collectors to oooh and ahhh over your books...

 

 

The fact that I am the only one who enjoys my collection is actually part of the appeal for me. I just had not realized that I do not show off my collection to anyone who comes over.

 

As far as collecting for others approval: NO WAY. I do not understand that concept. That approach to collecting would translate to owning comics I personally care nothing about.

[VintageComics]

of course a worldwide depression could happen at any moment and we'll be burning our comics for heat like stock certificates and Weimar Deutchmarks once were. Who knows?

 

I'll let my hands turn into popsicles before I burn my ASM #1.

 

I love this!!!!

 

[asmfan]

this thread has certainly brought some interesting views.

 

we've seen that, like the stock market, the comic market also has its bulls and bears. and, like the stock market, you can argue all day long as to why the price/value will be going up or down, but the fact is, like many have said, no one really knows. I think I'm bearish in the short term (but only slightly - and only on books of certain grades and from certain time periods), but bullish in the long term.

 

for me, buying comics is fun. If I spend $10k on a comic (which I haven't to date, but probably will in the future assuming my income continues to grow), I CERTAINLY expect to get $10k of enjoyment out of it. True, half the fun is acquiring it, but the other half of the fun is amortized over all the years you own it. I plan on continuing to invest money in the stock market, in bonds, real-estate, etc. I want to be diversified. But I also plan on spending plenty of my disposable income on comics. Why? because I enjoy it. and if they are worth a dime apiece in 50 years (which I think is highly unlikely)? well, I guess I had some expensive fun...

 

I'll have more to show for it than a drunk night in vegas!

[Wally's Comics]

Even when I sold my X-Men #101 CGC 9.4 book last year for $450 (that I'd purchased for $60 six months earlier), all I got was a look that told me, "wow, there's actually someone out there that's stupider than you are for collecting these funny books".

 

 

Where in the world did yu find that book at that price?

 

$60 is a steal!

 

I bought a 9.2 at a the last con in Charlotte for $200...

 

 

Nice flip by the way...

 

 

I did snag a Giant Sized X-men #1 CGC 8.5 for $250 in January and I thought that was a great deal...

 

You deal on the other hand was sick man sick!