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Marvel ruining it for everyone?

Started by romanheart,

99 posts in this topic

Erndog

Erndog

Posted
Posted

I actually agree with most, if not all of them.

 

I know they touched on it, but this should have been #1: The constant stopping and rebooting a series at #1 only a year or two after it's previous #1.

 

Before, volumes would reach 500-600.... now? Some series restart after 18 issues. It's become impossible to know the full history and volumes of most of their characters now.

 

I agree about the paper stock (specifically the cover). I agree they try to make Z level characters as A listers. I agree creators have abandoned them.

 

Overally, its pretty much spot on to be honest.

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Wally's Comics

Wally's Comics

Posted
Posted

I stopped reading moderns since the Green Goblin porked Gwen Stacy storyline

and life hasn't been better.

 

It just proved that Marvel will print anything for a quick sale no matter who or whats continuity is at stake...

 

Joe Q can still KMA!

 

 

:cloud9:

 

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Artboy99

Artboy99

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Posted

My biggest dislikes are:

 

1. New #1 to often. Heck they may as well release a new number 1 every month and get it over with.

 

2. Changing characters, female versions of historically male characters. The "Totally Awesome Hulk" ( Young boy Amadeus Cho is now the Hulk ) finally made me cancel a 45 year long subscription to the Hulk.

 

3. Giant sweeping arcs over every title and off-shoot stories.

 

4. 4-5 variants of nearly every issue.

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CAHokie

CAHokie

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Posted

I try to pretend that never happened to Gwen and was a what if story. :(

 

The worst part about rebooting is that its not every few years anymore, in some cases it is every six months. I also despise the 1.1 .2 .3 type numbering system.

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miraclemet

miraclemet

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Posted

Its funny cause a good number of the criticisms are all business, not creative.

 

#1 Changing to less talented/cheaper artists and cheaper materials

#3 Over saturation of star wars

#4 Talent leaving

#6 make Z list characters important

 

 

My main criticism is with #4. People are leaving because they want to own their creations plain and simple (which does mean better chance at $$ down the road). Marvel tried to give creators more ownership, but in the end they wanted to be independently published so they owned the IP. its not about how they were treated, its about the creators wanting to own their ideas, which is fine, and there's not much Marvel can do about that, since they are in the IP acquisition business.

 

The above 4 are business decisions... IP is money maker, so they are plumbing their character sheet to find content. Star Wars is a billion dollar IP, they are going to generate content, just like they are going to make movies. Do you think this is anything but a direct edict from the Mouse?

 

 

As far as #5 release schedules are problem? There's this thing called the internet, you're on it. And complaining about books coming out TOO often? Seriously?

 

Its just fanboy whining to me, goes in one ear and out the other just like the rest of the last 15 years of comic books.

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Fan Boy

Fan Boy

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Posted

Agreed on few points:

 

1) Too many revised "upgraded" superheroes' origins. What I knew theirs decades ago is not the same today. Too many #1 issues popped up, after ending decades long series like ASM, Fantastic Four, etc.

 

2) Cover prices and variant covers. That killed my interest on monthly continues. I had went with TPBs for cheap prices since for long awhile.

 

3) Z-list characters? Come on... Really?

 

This is the reason I decided not to collect any titles from Marvel now. I think my last one was over a year ago? My monthly list contains of only 3-4 titles (other companies).

 

Marvel has gone down into dark side of ...you know what I saying?

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IntoAnother

IntoAnother

Posted
Posted
Its funny cause a good number of the criticisms are all business, not creative.

 

#1 Changing to less talented/cheaper artists and cheaper materials

#3 Over saturation of star wars

#4 Talent leaving

#6 make Z list characters important

 

 

My main criticism is with #4. People are leaving because they want to own their creations plain and simple (which does mean better chance at $$ down the road). Marvel tried to give creators more ownership, but in the end they wanted to be independently published so they owned the IP. its not about how they were treated, its about the creators wanting to own their ideas, which is fine, and there's not much Marvel can do about that, since they are in the IP acquisition business.

 

The above 4 are business decisions... IP is money maker, so they are plumbing their character sheet to find content. Star Wars is a billion dollar IP, they are going to generate content, just like they are going to make movies. Do you think this is anything but a direct edict from the Mouse?

 

 

As far as #5 release schedules are problem? There's this thing called the internet, you're on it. And complaining about books coming out TOO often? Seriously?

 

Its just fanboy whining to me, goes in one ear and out the other just like the rest of the last 15 years of comic books.

 

It definitely does not help when Marvel pays creators less than what many other publishers pay creators. Not rewarding your creative team is a very clear sign that a quality product is not of the highest importance to them.

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Doktor

Doktor

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Posted

I partially agree.

 

1. I hate the current coverstock. It's really making the problem with color rub really bad.

 

2. Brevoort needs to go back to just being the Marvel encyclopedia that he was during the first decade of Joe Q's run in charge. Let Joe be the guy that's a jerk to everyone. And on the issue of constant relaunches? I remember Brevoort saying something once in a Q&A about how high issue numbers make it intimidating for new readers to jump on, even when it's the start of a creative team or new arc & that they were trying to find a solution to that. Apparently "relaunch it each year" was their solution. I hate it. Old-school readers managed just fine grabbing a book off the shelf & just diving in head-first. Maybe it's the coddled youth of today with their "safe spaces" and other "I don't ever want to be made to feel even slightly uncomfortable anywhere ever" mindset that this is meant to appeal to.

 

4. The issues with keeping creators has been long-running. Whatever happened to their Icon imprint? That was their way of enticing guys like Bendis, Brubaker and Millar and their other "name" creators to stick around & still write Marvel Universe titles while giving them advertising & promotion & IP rights to their Icon work. Is that even still a thing? If not, then they need to bring it back. Keep writing X number of books for us & we'll give you the Image treatment for your creator-owned stuff while even giving you a bigger advertising audience by advertising your creator owned titles in our Marvel Universe books.

 

6. I think this is more an issue with their methods of market research at this point. Social media. I think this also connects back to the potential new audience they're trying to appeal to & sell books to. The youth audience that apparently clamors for characters based on race/gender/sexual-identity/etc (but doesn't buy the books in quantity to support them) is what this is aimed at. It's trying to appeal to new readers based on what those that yell the loudest on social media tells Marvel that they want. I think it's only a matter of time before they see the error of this type of market research. It doesn't consider the inherent bias of those that go out of their way to demand X, Y & Z from Marvel. The bias being that they're actively seeking something different because they don't want what's already there. And it ignores those that are OK with what currently exists. It also kinda ignores the first rule of trying to gather market data from word-of-mouth, which is that satisfied people aren't nearly as vocal as dissatisfied people. It doesn't take that into account.

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Toe Knee

Toe Knee

Posted
Posted

Can't agree with the article.

 

1-Who pays cover price for comics anymore? With local shops offering discounts for subscription services and sites like dcbservice.com, there is no need to pay cover price for a book you think has bad paper quality.

 

I read modern books for the stories, not the collectability so while the page quality of DC and Image are superior, the Marvel page quality doesn't ruin the medium for me.

 

2-Fans with disdain? Are the creators personally insulting you at cons? It's the internet, after reading some of the comments I see directed towards creators I'm surprised they even respond to "fans". Some of the questions are quite rude and demeaning in their own right, fans hide behind their keyboards and would never say these things to a creators face at a con.

 

It's easy read what you like

 

3-How are they ruining Star Wars if the stories are good?

 

4-I doubt this is true, since both Hickman and Remender have both stated they are taking a break from marvel to focus on creator owned work. Which is more profitable to the creators when the book is a success.

 

5-Get over it, movies take years to come out, I can wait a little longer for a book I enjoy. Look back at the silver Age books, they weren't monthly, most were bi monthly.

 

Watchmen was late, no one says anything about that. Who cares if a book is late if it's good?

 

6-If there were no books with no Z listers then fans would complain that all the books feature only the X-Men, Spidey and Avengers.

 

 

 

 

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Erndog

Erndog

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Posted
My main criticism is with #4. People are leaving because they want to own their creations plain and simple (which does mean better chance at $$ down the road). Marvel tried to give creators more ownership, but in the end they wanted to be independently published so they owned the IP. its not about how they were treated, its about the creators wanting to own their ideas, which is fine, and there's not much Marvel can do about that, since they are in the IP acquisition business.

 

 

I think you're forgetting/missing a big aspect as well. Creators wanted free reign. They wanted to tell a story instead of have Marvel direct them in how to tell it.

 

I spoke with a very prominent artist at a con once. He's worked all over. Anyways, he told me that Marvel was easily the most hands on in terms of how they wanted the story/art/cover to go.

 

You think creators like that? You think creators want guys over their shoulders at every turn? Definitely not.

 

So while owning their own IP is important, having the ability to just "do what they want" is even more so. Marvel doesn't give creators enough authority to just do what they want with a character/title.

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Artboy99

Artboy99

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Posted
My main criticism is with #4. People are leaving because they want to own their creations plain and simple (which does mean better chance at $$ down the road). Marvel tried to give creators more ownership, but in the end they wanted to be independently published so they owned the IP. its not about how they were treated, its about the creators wanting to own their ideas, which is fine, and there's not much Marvel can do about that, since they are in the IP acquisition business.

 

 

I think you're forgetting/missing a big aspect as well. Creators wanted free reign. They wanted to tell a story instead of have Marvel direct them in how to tell it.

 

I spoke with a very prominent artist at a con once. He's worked all over. Anyways, he told me that Marvel was easily the most hands on in terms of how they wanted the story/art/cover to go.

 

You think creators like that? You think creators want guys over their shoulders at every turn? Definitely not.

 

So while owning their own IP is important, having the ability to just "do what they want" is even more so. Marvel doesn't give creators enough authority to just do what they want with a character/title.

 

THIS.

 

Getting a -script sent to you that dictates the layout of each panel to the point where you no longer have any creativity is a problem.

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jcjames

jcjames

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Posted
I actually agree with most, if not all of them.

 

I know they touched on it, but this should have been #1: The constant stopping and rebooting a series at #1 only a year or two after it's previous #1.

 

Before, volumes would reach 500-600.... now? Some series restart after 18 issues. It's become impossible to know the full history and volumes of most of their characters now.

 

I agree about the paper stock (specifically the cover). I agree they try to make Z level characters as A listers. I agree creators have abandoned them.

 

Overally, its pretty much spot on to be honest.

Yep.

 

How many Spiderpersons are in the Marvel Multiverse?

 

The blatant diversity mandate and pandering. Female-every-character and suddenly it's a better story or character? Ugh. Lack of creativity is trying to be covered up by changing the gender/race of existing characters. Retreads are lame. Simply switching costumes with another person is not creative. X--this.

 

The All-New-Now-Even-More-All-New-Now restarting of every frickin series so that, how many Spider-Man or Thor #1s are there?

 

Basically, they keep going to the same old well and people just get tired of it.

 

 

 

 

 

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Erndog

Erndog

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Posted
My main criticism is with #4. People are leaving because they want to own their creations plain and simple (which does mean better chance at $$ down the road). Marvel tried to give creators more ownership, but in the end they wanted to be independently published so they owned the IP. its not about how they were treated, its about the creators wanting to own their ideas, which is fine, and there's not much Marvel can do about that, since they are in the IP acquisition business.

 

 

I think you're forgetting/missing a big aspect as well. Creators wanted free reign. They wanted to tell a story instead of have Marvel direct them in how to tell it.

 

I spoke with a very prominent artist at a con once. He's worked all over. Anyways, he told me that Marvel was easily the most hands on in terms of how they wanted the story/art/cover to go.

 

You think creators like that? You think creators want guys over their shoulders at every turn? Definitely not.

 

So while owning their own IP is important, having the ability to just "do what they want" is even more so. Marvel doesn't give creators enough authority to just do what they want with a character/title.

 

THIS.

 

Getting a -script sent to you that dictates the layout of each panel to the point where you no longer have any creativity is a problem.

 

 

Right.

 

It's not, as Miracelment points out, "they want to own their creations plain and simple"... it's that they want the ability to tell whatever story THEY want free from big brother above them.

 

You don't think artists/writers dream of writing Batman? or Spiderman? or X-Men? Of course they do! That's what they've grown up on.

 

Owning their own IP does hold some water but that can be done at another time. It's the fact the Marvel bosses dictate far, far too much of the story, literally from what the pose on the front cover should look like. Kind of takes the "creative" out of the creators.

 

 

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