What is the responsibility of a convention organizer?

[RCheli]

This past fall, I set up at the 3-day Grand Rapids Comicon. More than 15,000 people came through the door over three day -- a huge attendance figure. However, I did pretty poorly. Comic dealers all pretty much had the same response. Toys/posters/knick-nacks, however, all sold very well.

 

It was marketed as a comic show. It had comic creators as guests. It had plenty of attendees. Sellers just didn't do so well.

 

This past weekend I set up at a local, one-day show. Around 800 people came through the door (which isn't a terrible number). However, the room was packed with dealers -- the most ever.

 

When I saw the number of people setting up, I knocked my projected revenue by 25%. (I still did more than that, but not as much as I was hoping.)

 

The same promoter has a show this weekend where he's mentioned that there will be the most dealers ever (and he's renting a second room).

 

So here's my question for you (both dealers and attendees):

 

What is the responsibility of the promoter?

 

Can you complain if they get a lot of people through the door, but it's not the right people? Can you complain if there's too many dealers, with the assumption that there is only a set amount of money in the room, which now has to be split into smaller pieces?

[sd2416]

 

Can you complain if they get a lot of people through the door, but it's not the right people?

What are the right people and how would the organizer know who they are?

[RCheli]

 

Can you complain if they get a lot of people through the door, but it's not the right people?

What are the right people and how would the organizer know who they are?

 

I don't know. I don't think you can complain -- and I didn't. But is there a better way to target potential attendees?

 

I wasn't mad at the guy running the show. I guess I'm just venting a bit.

[the blob]

15,000 people is 15,000 people. unless you expect the promoter to comp high rollers with free hotel rooms and show girls, i don't know what else they can do. hard to know when those 25 middle age guys with a huge wad of 20s each are going to show up at a show and make the dealers' days.

 

 

I just don't think promoters care, because the benefits are indirect to them. I used to go to carbonaro's church basement shows in the 90s. sometimes i'd come with a grand in my pocket, which was a fair amount for those shows. (i used to have no kids and a good job) i used to buy from him, sometimes $500-$600 at a time, he knew my face, although not my name. heck, i even had a table once at one show. i was chatty with his old man, etc. did he ever put me on a mailing list to make sure i got comped a ticket to any show? never. heck, sometimes i'd come at the end of the day at the shows and just want to shop for an hour. would they ever let me in for free? no. at "the national" the guy insisted i spent $20 to come in for the last hour of the show. i showed him how much cash i had to spend (well over a grand) and he did not care. as a matter of principal i walked out and made a point of letting the dealers nearby know i wanted to spend money, but the promotoers were being jerks. of course, i was being childish and I would have gone in if he made it half price, but i found it insulting that they had so little interest in helping the dealers who spent good money on tables make some money.

[drotto]

All an organizer is responsible for is.....

 

1. providing security

2. providing a location

3. Selling tickets

4. Advertising

5. Organizing any guests, events etc

 

Once you buy space the rest is up to you.

[oldbsturgeon]

there is a local one day show here in WV that while there are good deal of comic vendors, the majority of vendors are other things and it becomes more of a pop culture sort of show than anything.

In fact the 2 local stores don't participate and remain open that day. that is a bad move I think but another topic of discussion

 

it's tough as you need traffic to move things but also the right traffic

[jessebrook1]

I run a small one day show in Douglasville, Georgia (suburb of Atlanta). I get around 400 people through my door. I rent the location, rent tables and promote the show. The key is promoting the show to the right people, comic shops, tv commercials(if you can afford it), other shows and facebook groups.

 

I do feel bad if a dealer has a bad day at a show but as long as i tried my best to get people in the door, i feel i did my part. Now its up to the dealer to bring what sells and at a fair price.

[ameriskin]

I'm in GR. How was the GR show aside from the lack of sales?

 

I was a director of the Phoenix Comic Con a decade ago and the priority had nothing to do with how many sales a vendor did, unfortunately. It really was as drotto says.

 

Where is that show this weekend?

[reptilekingdie]

It's up to the vendor, I set up at a show and barely made my table space back. The next year had the same amount of tables and made 10x that, had some big buyers come and grab a few CGC books. Promoter has nothing to do with your sells and people that come to the show. Most shows have a large amount of cos players that spend no money, so you can thank them for that waste of space, just my

[Cruzin' Thru Comics]

I set up at a few smaller shows in the Los Angeles area. Some shows you pretty much know how much you'll make. Others can be hit and miss. Seems there's too many shows these days and buyers are burned out. Next Sunday we have 3 shows in the Los Angeles area. I know the promoters for 2 of these shows. The third is usually open on Saturdays only but decided to have it on Sunday. All this does is dilute the customer base for all of them. As a dealer I wish they'd schedule their shows so as not to clash and make patrons choose which to go to.

[catrick339]

 

I think that Grand Rapids was something of an outlier. But you gotta wonder what the promoter was thinking when he was selling booths to people selling rain gutters...at an alleged comic show.

 

The show before he had someone selling sewing machines. That ALMOST makes sense, as there was a strong cosplay presence, but rain gutters? Really? I've resigned myself to the folks selling swords...and tee shirts....and bootleg DVD's...and purses...

 

I think every retailer has a show where he tanks sometimes, but I talked to a lot of the comic sellers after Grand Rapids, and most of them are saying they won't be back. If that many people had a bad show, and nobody is telling about how it was a great show, that means that the 15K people who showed up were interested in something else entirely, with no splashover into comics.

 

Good luck to the promoter, but I think he's going to have a very different crowd of retailers at the next show.

[oldbsturgeon]

yeah the rain gutters makes no sense. Where I work we put on job fairs usually twice a year and when I go to the one in the fall, it becomes more of a resource/education fair than a job fair. I think just like in our agency's case, some poor organizing/vendor outreach has happened

[That Ron Dude]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never do that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

[Artboy99]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

 

Very well said.

 

As a vendor I have experienced all of these things.

 

At the 2012 Calgary Expo they had Leonard Nimoy as a guest. Nimoy of course drew a huge crowd, but it really killed my sales when the line up to get his autographs formed right in front of my table. The sales that day for me were $0.0. The positive is I didn't sleep at all the night before so I took a nap after just watching the giant line form and noting none of those people had any interest in my booth.

The next year the Calgary Expo promoters changed things up and had the guest section in a completely different location.

 

I have also had an organizer decide to put on the show on Mother's Day, perhaps one of the worst possible days to do a comic book show.

 

Is a show in a city close to me that gets great advertising, but it isn't advertised specifically as a comic show, it is promoted as "A show for Pop Culture, Lego Enthusiasts, Comic, Sci-Fi fans, Artists and Creators everywhere!" It is held in the sports facility of the city, which is a very well off community. Because of the way it is advertised, it is a hodge podge of all sorts of vendors. And attracts for the most part families who come to play the games, see the arena sized lego city display, and hopefully/maybe buy some comics. The show organizer has much to learn and we the vendors are the ones having to give him an education. Some examples:

- his end cap only had 2 tables. Every other show I have ever done the end cap consists of 4 tables forming 2 "L" shapes.

-he advertised the size of the space on the website but when we got there the size was much smaller. Example: advertised as 10'x20', it was 8' by 16'

-the day of the show he wouldn't allow early access for the vendors. The show was to open at 9:30 he was not going to allow vendors into the show until 9AM. I had to tell him that wouldn't work for me for as a comic seller, I put my product out the day of the show which can take me several hours, and take it all down and the end of the day. He didn't seem to understand, pointing at other vendors with all of their products up and ready to go the day before during setup until I showed him several books with price stickers of several thousand dollars on them each and I asked him if he would be comfortable leaving these books up on the display wall as he went home for the evening.

[1Cool]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

 

Wow we expect a lot from a promoter. I'd think a promoter's job is to bring in a ton of people and set up the booths in an organized manner. If they say 20,000 people are expected thru the door then it really doesn't matter what type of people they are or if they are actively looking for comic books to buy. Of course everyone can decide if they want to buy a table based on their own sales but I don't think the promoter has a responsibility to insure people make money. As long as each booth is set up in the manner described and there is a ton of people coming thru the door then they have done their job.

[Artboy99]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

 

Wow we expect a lot from a promoter. I'd think a promoter's job is to bring in a ton of people and set up the booths in an organized manner. If they say 20,000 people are expected thru the door then it really doesn't matter what type of people they are or if they are actively looking for comic books to buy. Of course everyone can decide if they want to buy a table based on their own sales but I don't think the promoter has a responsibility to insure people make money. As long as each booth is set up in the manner described and there is a ton of people coming thru the door then they have done their job.

 

For the most part I agree with you.

 

There are other things that I expect however.

 

I think the Rain Gutters vendor is a perfect example of something to never do. If you are advertising a comic show or a Popculture show, the rain gutters vendor has no business being there. It shows a lack of support for the theme of the show, and points to an organizer who was desperate to fill tables. The following year those potential buyers that attended may not return because of the inclusion of stuff they did not come to see. Remember the show attendees are also paying to come. If you do a "Comicbook show" and promote it as such, that is what should be at the show. Now if the Rain Gutters vendor had comic painted finish to the gutters, now we are talking!

 

I dealt with an organizer locally that didn't fill all the tables. The layout of the booths and tables was great, he just had not sold all the space and left the spaces empty instead of offering the paying vendors some extra space. He also offered free tables to some local lego clubs to display stuff. Considering I paid $400 a table to attend and support the show the organizers inappropriate empty table handling left a bad taste in my mouth. I also strongly disliked seeing a whole bunch of empty tables around where I was setup. The show attendees are not likely to come to that area if there is nothing to see. We solved this problem by using the space anyways, putting books and sets out on the empty tables of some booths.

 

I also did a show that was advertised as a place for Popculture, Comics, art and toys. Once the show started, of the 100 vendors there only 3 were dedicated to comics. Our booth being the largest with the most inventory, another vender had about 20 longs the last had 4 longboxes. As a show attendee, I wouldn't return to that show if I was looking to buy comics, there just isn't enough selection. The promoter needed to work to attract more of the type of vendors he was after for the theme of the show. Perhaps a negotiating tactic would be to lower the price, as again the tables were extremely expensive when compared to other local shows. So in this case, the organizer didn't do enough research so he would know the price to charge per table and therefore know the cost needed for the venue. Why would a comic seller attend this show at $450 a table when 3 weeks later there is another show that is $100 a table?

You might get 15000 people to come, but I do need them to be interested in what I have to offer otherwise I have no interest in being there.

[RCheli]

I'm in GR. How was the GR show aside from the lack of sales?

 

I was a director of the Phoenix Comic Con a decade ago and the priority had nothing to do with how many sales a vendor did, unfortunately. It really was as drotto says.

 

Where is that show this weekend?

 

It was a strange show. I had a lot of people walk up to my booth and say, "Wow, I didn't know that there were still comics being made."

 

They said this... at a comic convention.

 

Maybe people have already decided that "comicon" is a spectacle and not something to buy and sell, and that they are happy paying their $20 to get in a walk around.

 

The promoter isn't really a comic guy himself -- he deals in movie posters -- but saw an opportunity. The guest list wasn't great, but they had Neal "I-need-8-tables-to-hawk-my-wares" Adams and a few others. They've already announced Kevin Eastman for next year. But like Rick said, I don't know how many comic dealers are going to be there.

[1Cool]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

 

Wow we expect a lot from a promoter. I'd think a promoter's job is to bring in a ton of people and set up the booths in an organized manner. If they say 20,000 people are expected thru the door then it really doesn't matter what type of people they are or if they are actively looking for comic books to buy. Of course everyone can decide if they want to buy a table based on their own sales but I don't think the promoter has a responsibility to insure people make money. As long as each booth is set up in the manner described and there is a ton of people coming thru the door then they have done their job.

 

For the most part I agree with you.

 

There are other things that I expect however.

 

I think the Rain Gutters vendor is a perfect example of something to never do. If you are advertising a comic show or a Popculture show, the rain gutters vendor has no business being there. It shows a lack of support for the theme of the show, and points to an organizer who was desperate to fill tables. The following year those potential buyers that attended may not return because of the inclusion of stuff they did not come to see. Remember the show attendees are also paying to come. If you do a "Comicbook show" and promote it as such, that is what should be at the show. Now if the Rain Gutters vendor had comic painted finish to the gutters, now we are talking!

 

I dealt with an organizer locally that didn't fill all the tables. The layout of the booths and tables was great, he just had not sold all the space and left the spaces empty instead of offering the paying vendors some extra space. He also offered free tables to some local lego clubs to display stuff. Considering I paid $400 a table to attend and support the show the organizers inappropriate empty table handling left a bad taste in my mouth. I also strongly disliked seeing a whole bunch of empty tables around where I was setup. The show attendees are not likely to come to that area if there is nothing to see. We solved this problem by using the space anyways, putting books and sets out on the empty tables of some booths.

 

I also did a show that was advertised as a place for Popculture, Comics, art and toys. Once the show started, of the 100 vendors there only 3 were dedicated to comics. Our booth being the largest with the most inventory, another vender had about 20 longs the last had 4 longboxes. As a show attendee, I wouldn't return to that show if I was looking to buy comics, there just isn't enough selection. The promoter needed to work to attract more of the type of vendors he was after for the theme of the show. Perhaps a negotiating tactic would be to lower the price, as again the tables were extremely expensive when compared to other local shows. So in this case, the organizer didn't do enough research so he would know the price to charge per table and therefore know the cost needed for the venue. Why would a comic seller attend this show at $450 a table when 3 weeks later there is another show that is $100 a table?

You might get 15000 people to come, but I do need them to be interested in what I have to offer otherwise I have no interest in being there.

 

Didn't you as the only comic vendor caring a large assortment of books enjoy the lack of competition? I talked to a couple vendors at the small Akron Comic Con in November and they all enjoyed the small hall (maybe 10 comic vendors) and they all sold like crazy due to the lack of competition. Next year the Con moves to a giant facility and the number of vendors is growing to 30 or something. None of the original guys like the move but guys like me who want to get in on the action love the change. I guess my point is the promoter is going to off some people no matter what they do so I can see why they just concentrates on getting people thru the door and adapt to whoever buys booths. If the comic dealers don't come then maybe a face painter or balloon twister will come in and make it a more family event.

[miraclemet]

[

I dealt with an organizer locally that didn't fill all the tables. The layout of the booths and tables was great, he just had not sold all the space and left the spaces empty instead of offering the paying vendors some extra space. He also offered free tables to some local lego clubs to display stuff. Considering I paid $400 a table to attend and support the show the organizers inappropriate empty table handling left a bad taste in my mouth. I also strongly disliked seeing a whole bunch of empty tables around where I was setup. The show attendees are not likely to come to that area if there is nothing to see. We solved this problem by using the space anyways, putting books and sets out on the empty tables of some booths.

 

but the lego clubs weren't selling anything, and tables with something on them is better than nothing, especially if it's at least tangentially related.

 

Id get your complaint if he gave tables away to competition (other delaers). But the lego clubs might actually bring in some fans, and it might have ensured some more attendance (ie lego club still had to pay their way into the show, but got to set up their stuff on free tables.

 

If there were so many tables that there were still empties, would you have been interested in buying additional tables at a very reduced cost?

 

You dont like seeing empty tables, you don't like seeing free tables given away to non-vendor displays....

 

From the organizers perspective he might have been thinking "I dont want my vendors thinking they can get free tables, so next show they only buy a few tables with the expectation that they can still get some extra free once it's close to show time"... which I could understand.

[1Cool]

[

I dealt with an organizer locally that didn't fill all the tables. The layout of the booths and tables was great, he just had not sold all the space and left the spaces empty instead of offering the paying vendors some extra space. He also offered free tables to some local lego clubs to display stuff. Considering I paid $400 a table to attend and support the show the organizers inappropriate empty table handling left a bad taste in my mouth. I also strongly disliked seeing a whole bunch of empty tables around where I was setup. The show attendees are not likely to come to that area if there is nothing to see. We solved this problem by using the space anyways, putting books and sets out on the empty tables of some booths.

 

but the lego clubs weren't selling anything, and tables with something on them is better than nothing, especially if it's at least tangentially related.

 

Id get your complaint if he gave tables away to competition (other delaers). But the lego clubs might actually bring in some fans, and it might have ensured some more attendance (ie lego club still had to pay their way into the show, but got to set up their stuff on free tables.

 

If there were so many tables that there were still empties, would you have been interested in buying additional tables at a very reduced cost?

 

You dont like seeing empty tables, you don't like seeing free tables given away to non-vendor displays....

 

From the organizers perspective he might have been thinking "I dont want my vendors thinking they can get free tables, so next show they only buy a few tables with the expectation that they can still get some extra free once it's close to show time"... which I could understand.

 

Wizard must follow this idea since they still have a bunch of empty booths at the Cleveland con and I have friends who were turned down for a discount booth.