What is the responsibility of a convention organizer?

[Buzzetta]

I think that Grand Rapids was something of an outlier. But you gotta wonder what the promoter was thinking when he was selling booths to people selling rain gutters...at an alleged comic show.

 

The show before he had someone selling sewing machines. That ALMOST makes sense, as there was a strong cosplay presence, but rain gutters? Really? I've resigned myself to the folks selling swords...and tee shirts....and bootleg DVD's...and purses...

 

I think every retailer has a show where he tanks sometimes, but I talked to a lot of the comic sellers after Grand Rapids, and most of them are saying they won't be back. If that many people had a bad show, and nobody is telling about how it was a great show, that means that the 15K people who showed up were interested in something else entirely, with no splashover into comics.

 

Good luck to the promoter, but I think he's going to have a very different crowd of retailers at the next show.

 

At NYCC a few years ago, Sears had a presence and was selling hardware.

 

This year Chevy was at NYCC and yes, was selling cars. To be fair, at least Chevy painted their cars up with Valiant characters but still...

[Buzzetta]

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

I don't think I want the show promoter to have his own table of books. The show promoter should maintain focus on facilitating the show and handling any issues that arise and not wondering about the take at their own table.

 

This is not a competition issue but one of focus. If the show promotoer / facilitator is supposed to be addressing concerns and maintaining a fluid operation of the show itself and not anything else that day.

[Artboy99]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

 

Wow we expect a lot from a promoter. I'd think a promoter's job is to bring in a ton of people and set up the booths in an organized manner. If they say 20,000 people are expected thru the door then it really doesn't matter what type of people they are or if they are actively looking for comic books to buy. Of course everyone can decide if they want to buy a table based on their own sales but I don't think the promoter has a responsibility to insure people make money. As long as each booth is set up in the manner described and there is a ton of people coming thru the door then they have done their job.

 

For the most part I agree with you.

 

There are other things that I expect however.

 

I think the Rain Gutters vendor is a perfect example of something to never do. If you are advertising a comic show or a Popculture show, the rain gutters vendor has no business being there. It shows a lack of support for the theme of the show, and points to an organizer who was desperate to fill tables. The following year those potential buyers that attended may not return because of the inclusion of stuff they did not come to see. Remember the show attendees are also paying to come. If you do a "Comicbook show" and promote it as such, that is what should be at the show. Now if the Rain Gutters vendor had comic painted finish to the gutters, now we are talking!

 

I dealt with an organizer locally that didn't fill all the tables. The layout of the booths and tables was great, he just had not sold all the space and left the spaces empty instead of offering the paying vendors some extra space. He also offered free tables to some local lego clubs to display stuff. Considering I paid $400 a table to attend and support the show the organizers inappropriate empty table handling left a bad taste in my mouth. I also strongly disliked seeing a whole bunch of empty tables around where I was setup. The show attendees are not likely to come to that area if there is nothing to see. We solved this problem by using the space anyways, putting books and sets out on the empty tables of some booths.

 

I also did a show that was advertised as a place for Popculture, Comics, art and toys. Once the show started, of the 100 vendors there only 3 were dedicated to comics. Our booth being the largest with the most inventory, another vender had about 20 longs the last had 4 longboxes. As a show attendee, I wouldn't return to that show if I was looking to buy comics, there just isn't enough selection. The promoter needed to work to attract more of the type of vendors he was after for the theme of the show. Perhaps a negotiating tactic would be to lower the price, as again the tables were extremely expensive when compared to other local shows. So in this case, the organizer didn't do enough research so he would know the price to charge per table and therefore know the cost needed for the venue. Why would a comic seller attend this show at $450 a table when 3 weeks later there is another show that is $100 a table?

You might get 15000 people to come, but I do need them to be interested in what I have to offer otherwise I have no interest in being there.

 

Didn't you as the only comic vendor caring a large assortment of books enjoy the lack of competition? I talked to a couple vendors at the small Akron Comic Con in November and they all enjoyed the small hall (maybe 10 comic vendors) and they all sold like crazy due to the lack of competition. Next year the Con moves to a giant facility and the number of vendors is growing to 30 or something. None of the original guys like the move but guys like me who want to get in on the action love the change. I guess my point is the promoter is going to off some people no matter what they do so I can see why they just concentrates on getting people thru the door and adapt to whoever buys booths. If the comic dealers don't come then maybe a face painter or balloon twister will come in and make it a more family event.

 

You would think so but in this case not really as it was the first year for the show and the people that came were families to play the games and we didn't sell much. My worry is for the following year: as a comic buyer to you go to the show knowing there was little there for comic sellers?

[Lazyboy]

A few things--

 

If you tell the dealers that expected attendance is 15,000 without also saying, very nicely, that that includes cosplayers, doll collectors, card collectors, autograph hounds, book buyers, etc., it can be misleading. Some conventions are far more comic book oriented than others. I know that the dealers should and usually have checked these things out for themselves but that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to complain.

 

Don't put dealers at tables where they will be blocked by, say, long lines of people getting autographs. Those dealers have a right to complain.

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

Advertise where you will get the sort of attendees who will match the dealers.

 

The market has changed dramatically. I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

 

Wow we expect a lot from a promoter. I'd think a promoter's job is to bring in a ton of people and set up the booths in an organized manner. If they say 20,000 people are expected thru the door then it really doesn't matter what type of people they are or if they are actively looking for comic books to buy. Of course everyone can decide if they want to buy a table based on their own sales but I don't think the promoter has a responsibility to insure people make money. As long as each booth is set up in the manner described and there is a ton of people coming thru the door then they have done their job.

 

A promoter has a responsibility to advertise in a way that reaches the intended audience for the show. If they're running a supposed comic convention and a large portion of the local collectors haven't heard about it, they've failed. If the collectors attend and lots of people who don't collect comics also show up, that's fine.

 

Once the intended audience is inside the convention venue, the promoter has done their job and it's up to the vendors to make their sales. If a vendor brings 2 Rubbermaid totes full of overpriced junk that they bought from 1992-1994 and they're unable to even recoup their $50 table fee, that's on them.

[Designer Toast]

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

I don't think I want the show promoter to have his own table of books. The show promoter should maintain focus on facilitating the show and handling any issues that arise and not wondering about the take at their own table.

 

This is not a competition issue but one of focus. If the show promotoer / facilitator is supposed to be addressing concerns and maintaining a fluid operation of the show itself and not anything else that day.

 

I produced my first show last November, and can tell I think it's in bad taste for a promoter to have a booth at his own show. Now a merch booth, that's a different creature. As a promoter my philosophy is that you treat your exhibitors, guests, and attendees like gold. The last thing you want to do is off anyone supporting your show.

 

As for exhibitors that don't do well, and as someone who sets up at other shows, you're always taking a risk doing a show. I've done well at every show I've set up at and I believe it's because I offer a wide variety of items from comics to key chains and pint glasses. I think very few carrying only comics will do well at pop cultur focused cons. Standard in every exhibitor application is the event does not guarantee sales or success.

 

EDIT: Rain gutters? WTF?? I screen every exhibitor application for my show and rejected several of them including people who wanted to sell beef jerky, cupcakes, trinkets, yarn, and so on. I had one person who had a bridal business and told them I didn't think the con would be a good fit for them, until I found out they did geek themed weddings. You can't just sell space to anyone.

[Buzzetta]

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

I don't think I want the show promoter to have his own table of books. The show promoter should maintain focus on facilitating the show and handling any issues that arise and not wondering about the take at their own table.

 

This is not a competition issue but one of focus. If the show promotoer / facilitator is supposed to be addressing concerns and maintaining a fluid operation of the show itself and not anything else that day.

 

I produced my first show last November, and can tell I think it's in bad taste for a promoter to have a booth at his own show. Now a merch booth, that's a different creature. As a promoter my philosophy is that you treat your exhibitors, guests, and attendees like gold. The last thing you want to do is off anyone supporting your show.

 

As for exhibitors that don't do well, and as someone who sets up at other shows, you're always taking a risk doing a show. I've done well at every show I've set up at and I believe it's because I offer a wide variety of items from comics to key chains and pint glasses. I think very few carrying only comics will do well at pop cultur focused cons. Standard in every exhibitor application is the event does not guarantee sales or success.

 

EDIT: Rain gutters? WTF?? I screen every exhibitor application for my show and rejected several of them including people who wanted to sell beef jerky, cupcakes, trinkets, yarn, and so on. I had one person who had a bridal business and told them I didn't think the con would be a good fit for them, until I found out they did geek themed weddings. You can't just sell space to anyone.

 

I agree. However, I was thinking about this after I wrote it and I will add this... At the 2015 Big Apple / Carbo show there was a guy selling hot sauce. Did it fit in with the crowd? Debatable.

 

I wound up buying a few bottles. They were actually very good. Sometimes it pays to have at least one oddball thing at the show.

[the blob]

I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

---------

 

At a $5000+ investment for a space, that is probably true

[Buzzetta]

I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

---------

 

At a $5000+ investment for a space, that is probably true

 

Artist Alley seemed notably vacant as well. Many artists were saying that the table space and cost of travel / accommodations were not worth the prices realized in selling artwork and commissions.

 

 

[RCheli]

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

I don't think I want the show promoter to have his own table of books. The show promoter should maintain focus on facilitating the show and handling any issues that arise and not wondering about the take at their own table.

 

This is not a competition issue but one of focus. If the show promotoer / facilitator is supposed to be addressing concerns and maintaining a fluid operation of the show itself and not anything else that day.

 

Remember the Great Eastern Conventions that ran amuck in the early 90s? They started out in Jersey and New York and Connecticut and then spread out everywhere. Well, the guy who ran it, Fred Greenberg, had his own booth that he positioned right at the entrance to the con -- tons of tables with really good stuff. Well, it was well known that every time a little ol' lady or anyone with a bag/box full of old comics came through door, they would be quickly swept away, their comics purchased by Fred.

 

Other dealers did not like that in the least.

[Dale Roberts]

Celebrities in general contribute nothing or next to nothing to comic sales.

 

100 - 500.00 VIP packages SUCK money out of the room, away from vendors and into convention promoter pockets.

 

Charging 30 - 50.00 a day to get in the door for the opportunity to spend more money is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

Comic guests and LOTS of them, enough to pull comic collectors from every genre into the room, are needed to run a real comic convention.

 

Legitimate dealers are also needed to run a real comic convention. You can't have 10 guys who are running dollar boxes and half price boxes and expect to draw comic collectors. You've got to have enough dealers with good enough books that people can find something they are looking for, whether that is a GA Superman or a deadpool comic.

 

If you are going to take money from exhibitors (of any sort), you have a responsibility as a convention promoter to bring enough customers of their product into the hall when they can be reasonably assured of making a profit.

[Hamlet]

 

Don't put up table after table of your own comic books near the door. People selling things like yours who are paying for tables have a right to complain. Also, don't tell people you would never to that, forget about what you told them, then do it.

 

I don't think I want the show promoter to have his own table of books. The show promoter should maintain focus on facilitating the show and handling any issues that arise and not wondering about the take at their own table.

 

This is not a competition issue but one of focus. If the show promotoer / facilitator is supposed to be addressing concerns and maintaining a fluid operation of the show itself and not anything else that day.

 

I produced my first show last November, and can tell I think it's in bad taste for a promoter to have a booth at his own show. Now a merch booth, that's a different creature. As a promoter my philosophy is that you treat your exhibitors, guests, and attendees like gold. The last thing you want to do is off anyone supporting your show.

 

I think for some of the very small shows it is fine to have the guy running it also selling. I go to a little local show that is run by a guy who always has about 6-8 tables himself. It's a free 1-day show with no guests, so I can't think there is a whole lot he needs to do to run things in the middle of the show.

 

It's not a show I would travel for, but for a small local dealer I imagine it isn't too bad, since the tables are pretty cheap. The real issue is getting enough money out of the folks attending to make it worth the time. If I spend $100 at it I am a dealer favorite

[Buzzetta]

Celebrities in general contribute nothing or next to nothing to comic sales.

 

100 - 500.00 VIP packages SUCK money out of the room, away from vendors and into convention promoter pockets.

 

Charging 30 - 50.00 a day to get in the door for the opportunity to spend more money is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

Comic guests and LOTS of them, enough to pull comic collectors from every genre into the room, are needed to run a real comic convention.

 

Legitimate dealers are also needed to run a real comic convention. You can't have 10 guys who are running dollar boxes and half price boxes and expect to draw comic collectors. You've got to have enough dealers with good enough books that people can find something they are looking for, whether that is a GA Superman or a deadpool comic.

 

If you are going to take money from exhibitors (of any sort), you have a responsibility as a convention promoter to bring enough customers of their product into the hall when they can be reasonably assured of making a profit.

 

I am going to echo part of what Dale said and then add something that I want to state right off the back is NOT directed at Dale.

 

I am getting to the point where if I want to find something for my collection it annoys me to have to spend money to have the opportunity to spend money. Besides that I want to go to a comic show where I will see stuff and have an opportunity to purchase what I cannot find other places.

 

I am finding better deals online in the last couple of years online, at auction and through eBay than I am at the New York shows. I am not a fan of traveling just to go to a comic book show. I also seem to notice in the last couple of years that some vendors seem to raise their prices for what I have termed "NY Money". Yes, I am VERY resentful when I see items priced higher than those on a dealer's website and he refuses to budge on price. I have caught two people doing this in 2014 and a couple more doing this in 2015.

 

Show me great books at competitive prices and I will shop. If not I will move on and go where I can find what I want.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

I think that Grand Rapids was something of an outlier. But you gotta wonder what the promoter was thinking when he was selling booths to people selling rain gutters...at an alleged comic show.

 

I think I know what the promoter was doing -- getting revenue from renting another booth. What the rain gutter guy thought he was doing is another question.

[Sqeggs]

I think that Grand Rapids was something of an outlier. But you gotta wonder what the promoter was thinking when he was selling booths to people selling rain gutters...at an alleged comic show.

 

The show before he had someone selling sewing machines. That ALMOST makes sense, as there was a strong cosplay presence, but rain gutters? Really? I've resigned myself to the folks selling swords...and tee shirts....and bootleg DVD's...and purses...

 

I think every retailer has a show where he tanks sometimes, but I talked to a lot of the comic sellers after Grand Rapids, and most of them are saying they won't be back. If that many people had a bad show, and nobody is telling about how it was a great show, that means that the 15K people who showed up were interested in something else entirely, with no splashover into comics.

 

Good luck to the promoter, but I think he's going to have a very different crowd of retailers at the next show.

 

At NYCC a few years ago, Sears had a presence and was selling hardware.

 

This year Chevy was at NYCC and yes, was selling cars. To be fair, at least Chevy painted their cars up with Valiant characters but still...

 

They were also giving away free NYCC t-shirts and that drew a big crowd.

 

Stuff like that doesn't bother me. I would think that anything that draws people in increases the chances that the comic dealers will sell something -- even if it's a few books from the dollar boxes to someone who had no intention of buying comics when he walked in the door.

[AKA Rick]

The bottom line is it's the responsibility of the organizer to deliver on their stated promises, in terms of guest appearances, prices, packages and show hours (not allowing vendors to break down early as well). All of the logistics of set-up/break-down, guest passes, table location, etc should be simple and set up before the show. If an organizer is stressed out the day of their show and scrambling, you know it's technically "unorganized"

 

Once they've done their duty, the next evaluation is really... did the organizer do a good job for the individual evaluating the show

 

a) Attendees - Was the admission price fair? Was the show organized and orderly? Did the show offer an overall good experience?

 

b) Vendors - Did you make enough money to come back?

 

c) Guests - Did the organizer provide you with proper compensation worthwhile to come back?

 

So, it's those intangibles, some are within the organizers control, others are not which makes for a good show.

 

The organizer needs to figure out the right combination of advertising, promotions, publicity, and outreach to get attendees so the vendors and guests are appeased. The organizer needs to get the right guests and vendors to draw attendees. Sometimes that means crossing over out of the pure "old books" comic book category and including related things like toy vendors, merchandise vendors, corporate sponsors, cosplay, anime/manga, artist's alley, celebrities, etc. - - some shows even get irrelevant "flea market / swap meet" fodder who peddle odd stuff.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

I didn't do a survey but I when I attended the New York Con the summer before last I thought that there were no more comic dealers than there were at the New York Con in 1975.

---------

 

At a $5000+ investment for a space, that is probably true

 

Artist Alley seemed notably vacant as well. Many artists were saying that the table space and cost of travel / accommodations were not worth the prices realized in selling artwork and commissions.

 

 

That surprised me. The couple of times I went through I was kind of shocked that there were a number of (to me, at least) semi-big names just sitting around with few or no customers.

[Robot Man]

If a promoter advertises well, has a few good guests and brings in a boatload of people he's done his job. If he is advertising it as a Comic Book convention the whole show should be primarily slanted that way. "Pop Culture" shows are rarely good places to sell comics.

 

A lot of the blame is on the dealer himself. Bring a good variety of books graded and priced right to a Comic Book show and you should do pretty well. A nice booth set-up and a positive attitude as well as a willing to make the sale is essential.

 

Terry O'Neil's Yorba Linda, CA once a year show is a perfect example. Strictly vintage comics, a couple of guests and a fair admission cost brings in the crowds. He is able to even attract many out of state dealers for a one day show.

[the blob]

They were also giving away free NYCC t-shirts and that drew a big crowd.

 

Stuff like that doesn't bother me. I would think that anything that draws people in increases the chances that the comic dealers will sell something -- even if it's a few books from the dollar boxes to someone who had no intention of buying comics when he walked in the door.

---

 

agreed, the vast majority of people going to NYCC are not there with any intention of buying comics, but maybe they'll see something they like and get it. they are there for the experience and to buy other stuff (or grab free stuff) or are tagging along with someone like me who is dragging a folding cart with short boxes of comics he just bought.

 

[Dick Pontoon]

If a promoter advertises well, has a few good guests and brings in a boatload of people he's done his job. If he is advertising it as a Comic Book convention the whole show should be primarily slanted that way. "Pop Culture" shows are rarely good places to sell comics.

 

True, but comic cons have morphed over the years, they're almost all Pop Culture shows now. It's a tough row to hoe. A show like Terry's is a bit of an anomaly. A strict comics only show is few and far between except for smaller local shows and won't bring in the crowds in the same numbers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I prefer a good old-fashioned comic show 100% of the time, but the times have changed.

[aardvark88]

A show like Terry's is a bit of an anomaly. A strict comics only show is few and far between except for smaller local shows and won't bring in the crowds in the same numbers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I prefer a good old-fashioned comic show 100% of the time, but the times have changed.

 

e.g. The Feb/16 San Diego Comic Fest was quite quiet and needed more foot traffic. Seemed like they had less than 400 collector/fans. Some vendors would wander away from their booth selling vintage comics, lobby cards, etc. due to lack of collectors of their wares.