Question about paypal and refunds

[Darthdiesel]

I had a situation last week. The main question is "Do you get hit with paypal fees if you are receiving a refunded payment?" Background details:

 

I sold this a weekend ago ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN 17 CGC 9.6 SS 2ND HIGHEST

 

He pays to the "wrong" paypal address and I refund it to him and tell him where to send it for credit card linked/funded paypal accounts.

 

I get this in the follow- up payment from the buyer:

 

"In future you may want to warn people in regards to credit cards and PayPal...that transaction cost me $3 just for you denying it...just a thought."

 

 

here's my detailed and POLITE response:

 

Please reread my auction payment details in the top left of the web page:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2161218607

 

"Payment Instructions Please send Paypal (if paying with a paypal balance or a paypal address directly linked to bank account) to cdelacruz@cox.net. If however, your paypal account is linked to a credit card account, you MUST use this paypal address instead: darthdiesel@yahoo.com. Satisfaction Guaranteed; CGC comics are bought as is - IN PERFECT SHAPE UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED. Paypal preferred! But I accept all other traditional forms of payment. "

 

 

I'm a responsible seller and I do take time to remind everyone about how to pay me. My thoughts on this: 1) People just rush and don't read. 2) People mistakenly often think that they are linked to a bank account because they are using a debit card. Sorry but that is STILL a Credit card as far as paypal goes. 3) It should not have cost you ANYTHING in fees for me to refund a payment that you sent to the wrong address. There are no fees associated with receiving a refund for a payment denied. That is in Paypal's terms of agreement with its users. Are you saying that next to the Paypal statement item related to my refund, it has a fee of $3 (probably Canadian dollars)? Remember that I'm taking a $1.61 US hit to accept your payment with my credit card account and I clearly state how to pay me 3 times: in my auction description's payment instructions, in the invoice that I send out to you from eBay and the autoinvoice that you get from paypal. How much more can I do?

 

I suggest you read your emails and auction pages more in the future to save you some headaches. I would complain to paypal if they did charge you for a refund, but my opinion is that you are reading it wrong.

 

Ken - I will email you when your item ships tomorrow March 10, 2003.

 

So guys? Am I out of line here? Or is someone just not reading and pinning the blame on the seller? Honestly, I don't know if Canadian users of paypal get hit with fees if a payment is refunded to them. I KNOW USA users don't. Greggy, AK, and other Canadian forumites, maybe you guys can straighten me out on this...Thanks

[ArAich]

Hey Darth...

JMO...but when an auction ends...most people will either click the link or pay via the Paypal email that is sent...so that is why the person probably sent it to you via your first option...

Also...as we are all quite aware...bidders do not always read the fine print ie:Joanna's auctions where she specifically states "No Personal Checks" (but they send them anyway)

My advice is to try to stick with one account since this problem will more than likely happen again with your two account system...

 

As far as the transaction cost...stated simply I don't know...

 

I had one bidder recently send me money via Paypal when in my listing I stated very clearly "Please contact me for shipping amount"...well the Paypal email did not include the shipping amount and he paid based on the automatic email that was sent...and he was a little peturbed when I contacted him and told him that he needed to send more money for shipping...

 

 

[greggy]

Well, he may have been hit with the exchange rate difference. Rickdogg refunded some $$ to me that I sent via credit card and I was not hit with any fees. However, the exchange rate used for the sending of the money was different from when it was refunded to me!

[Peter_Parker59]

As a french paypal user ('international verified'), I can confirm you there's no fee charged by Paypal for a user receiving refund.

 

I have experienced it. I had paid $750 to an american user, and I got back my $750 when being refunded. My paypal account was a 'personal account', though. Not a 'premier account'. Maybe this could make a difference.

 

Hope this helps.

[Rickdogg]

I am not familiar with exchange rates and what not for INTL paypal users....but I know that Darth's post auction email is not straight from paypal and is one he makes personally. This person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point didn't read instructions thoroughly and is now pissed at Darth for his mistake? This is in the payment instructions as well, "Please send Paypal (if paying with a paypal balance or a paypal address directly linked to bank account) to cdelacruz@cox.net. If however, your paypal account is linked to a credit card account, you MUST use this paypal address instead: darthdiesel@yahoo.com. Satisfaction Guaranteed; CGC comics are bought as is - IN PERFECT SHAPE UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED. Paypal preferred! But I accept all other traditional forms of payment. "

 

Darth live and learn...you should opt out of the auto posting of the paypal logo on your auctions because it links directly to your personal account. Kind of like John's..."I thought I was bidding on Jean Grey."

 

[fantastic_four]

I paid via credit card in December 2002 to somebody who only had a personal account...I didn't get charged for them rejecting the payment.

[Darthdiesel]

...most people will either click the link or pay via the Paypal email that is sent

 

Yeah Rick - you are right about this. In anticipating this exact circumstance, I linked the Paypal logo in the auctions to the darthdiesel@yahoo.com address which does accept the credit card linbked accounts no problem. Also my personal paypal account does NOT send out autoinvoices - that feature is only available to Business accounts, which accept Credit cards.

 

The two account system is something I can thank Bugaboo for, in enlightening me that it should be well within my rights to maintain both. I agree that it can get confusing but with clear instructions, enumerated threefold in any transaction with me, any problems acan be avoided so long as one can and does READ.

 

In your case, weren't you a bit perturbed that you had to eat the paypal fee when he sent the second paypal amount to cover shipping? that's only about $0.40 to $0.50 cents in the small scheme of things; however, too many of these "missed shipping" deals and secondary make-up payupal payments add up....

[Darthdiesel]

However, the exchange rate used for the sending of the money was different

 

Exchange rates will not vary enough in the span of one day to effect a $3 fee (even in Canadian currency) for a $40 US transaction, which I returned to him immediately; within minutes of his sending it to the wrong address.

[Darthdiesel]

Thanks PP59 - this is what I was thinking. The buyer should never be penalized for accepting a refund.

[Darthdiesel]

you should opt out of the auto posting of the paypal logo on your auctions

 

I thought it didn't but I will just drop the autolink altogether. Thanks for the good advice. Always want to improve my transactions and make it as easy for others as possible.

[chromium]

I'm an international premier member and got a refund back once as well...Nothing was missing, exactly the same amount I paid got returned...

[Bugaboo-migration]

I would probably agree with dropping the Paypal logo from your auctions as well.

 

Also, I don't put my payment instruction in the top part like you do, but is there any way to add color to highlight some of the specifics there.

 

You might also try cleaning up the instructions a little bit.

 

Yours currently reads:

_________________________________________________________________

 

Please send Paypal (if paying with a paypal balance or a paypal address

directly linked to bank account) to cdelacruz@cox.net. If however, your

paypal account is linked to a credit card account, you MUST use this

paypal address instead: darthdiesel@yahoo.com. Satisfaction Guaranteed;

CGC comics are bought as is - IN PERFECT SHAPE UNLESS

OTHERWISE NOTED. Paypal preferred! But I accept all other traditional

forms of payment.

____________________________________________________________________

 

 

How about something like this.....and with color if possible.....and each instruction on a seperate line if possible:

 

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS with Paypal MUST be sent to darthdiesel@yahoo.com.

ANY OTHER FORM of Paypal payment MUST be sent to cdelacruz@cox.net.

Paypal is preferred! But I accept all other traditional forms of payment.

Satisfaction Guaranteed. CGC comics are bought as is - in perfect shape unless otherwise noted.

____________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Says the same thing and should work just as well without the color......but might be a little less confusing for the people who don't like to read the small print. Just a thought for you to consider.....but I would definitely play around with it. Hope that helps.

 

[greggy]

Well Darth, maybe he is just another whiny Canuck who doesn't know what he is talking about!

[Darthdiesel]

Buyer has replied in kind:

 

My apologies Carl,

 

I have purchased a large number of comics over the last few months and yes...you are correct. I purchased other comics at the same time as yours and believed it was your site that had no warning and didn't even think to check. I was being totally unreasonable and should never have sent you that e-mail.

 

My most sincerest apology..

 

 

So it has been worked out. I can understand because I've been busy too. No hard feelings here. Just glad to get info from Canadians and foreign forumites to resolve question of " Are there fees applied by Paypal to refunds, penalizing the buyer"

[Darthdiesel]

Excellent suggestion Bug...I'm going to update future auctions this way. I don't think I can "colorize" in that part of the Payment instrauction template as it is EBay controlled, but in my manula generated invoices I will definitely send it out.

 

I apprecitate the rewrite. I haven't had enough time lately and glad someone with a better grasp of the English language hooked me up with this billing message. You DA Man!

[Rickdogg]

Sweet...he's off my blocked bidders list

[Bugaboo-migration]

Glad I could help Darth.

 

No big deal if you can't color part of the instructions......capital letters work about as well to highlight specific points if you want to.

 

FYI......if you use any of the sample payment instructions I provided, it would be wise to correct my spelling errors (bough? instead of bought). Plus.....I messed up one of your paypal email account names.

 

I tried to edit the message.....but for some reason the stupid forum wouldn't let me do it on that post.

[Darthdiesel]

Here Rick - add this other guy below if you need someone for your blocked bidders list....there are plenty of them and I'm getting bolder so that I neg when deserved, screw the retaliatory consequences...

 

Recently negged bidder

[Darthdiesel]

Thanks Bug - I caught those, but I thought that you did that INTENTIONALLY so you could get a cut of my action sent to your paypal account set up under "cdelecruz@cox.net"

 

I fixed the typos....

[Bugaboo-migration]

Cool.......didn't want you coming in here and body slamming the Bug for screwing up your auctions.

 

I figured out what was going wrong and was able to correct the spelling mistakes in my original post. So, you wouldn't have anything that would hold up in a court of law anyway.