THE FLASH starring Ezra Miller 2022 10 10

[eastriver400]

 

I'm starting to think Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 should be released on Max.  Granted I have no idea how these works logistically but if Flash ends up making Black Adam money, it may make more sense to preserve the brand until the DCU reboot.  

[Gatsby77]

Maybe…I mean how many times do audiences need to show they’ve blatantly rejected the Snyderverse?

I, for one, am excited to get blitzed drunk and watch The Flash, but have zero desire to see Blue Beetle or Aquaman 2 in the theater.

[eastriver400]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:43 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Maybe…I mean how many times do audiences need to show they’ve blatantly rejected the Snyderverse?

I, for one, am excited to get blitzed drunk and watch The Flash, but have zero desire to see Blue Beetle or Aquaman 2 in the theater.

I thought it was a really good movie. Better than most.  You will enjoy it.   I'm with you on Aquaman 2 and BB though.    Kind of feels like flogging a dead horse. 

 

[Bosco685]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:43 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Maybe…I mean how many times do audiences need to show they’ve blatantly rejected the Snyderverse?

Spoiler

I, for one, am excited to get blitzed drunk and watch The Flash, but have zero desire to see Blue Beetle or Aquaman 2 in the theater.

 

That would be a misinformed assumption everything that has occurred is attributed to Zack Snyder. Though I recognize this is more of, "After MOS I disliked his work!"

If they were rejecting projects that had some influence from his earlier plans (remember WB abandoned its 2014 announced roadmap by 2016 over one movie release that still made bank), why are the Domestic Home Sales still so high? So they can practice self-hate while they watch them? Including Josstice League.

Anyone that agreed with that view needs to do a lot more research. To include with that 2016 roadmap swap they went from Geoff John/Jon Berg to Walter Hamada to now James Gunn/Peter Safran. So in only six (6) years WB reset its senior management team three times. And for a long period, it was Tobey Emmerich pulling the strings that then led to demanding Henry Cavill be replaced for not playing ball using his contract appearances for brief cameos.

But yeah. Zack Snyder. He made all this happen even after he was gone. That cad!

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bosco685

[Gatsby77]

Sigh...

Man of Steel didn't perform well enough (i.e, gross anywhere close to The Dark Knight Rises) to go directly to a Man of Steel 2, so they switched gears to BvS. And MoS was an okay movie - oh, except for Zack Snyder and company demonstrating they fundamentally misunderstood the character of Superman.

BvS was a flash in the pan, opening strongly, but dropping like a rock in its 2nd weekend (what was it? - 69+%)? Therefore setting a record for major comic book films by ultimately hitting a domestic gross less than 2x its opening weekend.

Most importantly - the strong opening weekend masked BvS's true failure - that it sucked so horribly audiences didn't care to even show up for Justice League Part 1.

Why?

Because box offices like this are lagging indicators. See also: The Matrix Revolutions - it bombed precisely because audiences hated The Matrix Reloaded -- despite that film's *okay* performance, the third film grossed less than half the second's domestically.

Thus, Justice League (ahem! Josstice League)'s failure (opening to just $93 million domestic) was a lagging indicator - a direct result - of audience's allergic reaction to BvS.

Yes - Aquaman and Wonder Woman did well.

But apples to apples -- only theatrical box office matters - and on that score, audiences (and critics) have solidly rejected Zack Snyder's vision nearly every step of the way - but mostly via the critical and box office drubbings of BvS, Justice League, and (now) The Flash.

AND your chart above is woefully incomplete - because it ignores the list of canceled projects that were hinted at, announced or promised along the way, like:

• Man of Steel 2
• Justice League Part 2
• Cyborg
• Deathstroke
• The Trench
• Batgirl

I'm betting we can now add The Flash 2 to that list.

As smarter folks than I have pointed out, "It's telling that in the press Gunn has been touting Andres Muschietti's role in developing The Brave & the Bold, and not The Flash 2" (and that's *before* this weekend's box office made Black Adam look good).

Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe in 2026 we can all get together, pop a beer and watch an incredible triple feature of New Gods, The Flash 2 and The Authority.

[Gatsby77]

Put another way...math is math.

If BvS wasn't such a steaming pile of poo, it wouldn't have fallen off a cliff after opening weekend and Justice League wouldn't have opened fully $70+ million lower - thus directly leading to the cancellation of at least 3 DCEU films.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Gatsby77

[Bosco685]

Interesting how some play this same drum, over and over. Yet they never face facts. Even when previously they have noted BVS had the worst CBM dropoff.

And yet when BVS Ultimate Edition was released not only did it break a record for WB Studios with home sales. It helped Walmart start its pre-disc release campaign with the Digital Copy/DC Files release.

$82M Domestic Home Theater sales alone, which on avegage is about 4.1M units sold at an average price of $19.99

But hey. Everyone moved on from BVS. Right?

[Bosco685]

On 6/19/2023 at 5:40 PM, Bosco685 said:

That would be a misinformed assumption everything that has occurred is attributed to Zack Snyder. Though I recognize this is more of, "After MOS I disliked his work!"

If they were rejecting projects that had some influence from his earlier plans (remember WB abandoned its 2014 announced roadmap by 2016 over one movie release that still made bank), why are the Domestic Home Sales still so high? So they can practice self-hate while they watch them? Including Josstice League.

Anyone that agreed with that view needs to do a lot more research. To include with that 2016 roadmap swap they went from Geoff John/Jon Berg to Walter Hamada to now James Gunn/Peter Safran. So in only six (6) years WB reset its senior management team three times. And for a long period, it was Tobey Emmerich pulling the strings that then led to demanding Henry Cavill be replaced for not playing ball using his contract appearances for brief cameos.

But yeah. Zack Snyder. He made all this happen even after he was gone. That cad!

And again. So silly to attribute all the WB executive missteps to Zack Snyder.

Even during interviews with Chris Terrio and Snyder they noted how "Batman v Super: Dawn of Justice" was forced on them. You would have to be wearing Snyder Hate shades to not cut through all the internal influences that led to the overall current situation the DC Universe is dealing with.

[jsilverjanet]

[jsilverjanet]

I just read that Affleck does not get a credit in the end credits 

[media_junkie]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:04 PM, jsilverjanet said:

I just read that Affleck does not get a credit in the end credits 

Seeing as how poorly the movie is doing he can say, "Nope wasn't me, they CGI'd my stuff".

[skypinkblu]

There were actually quite a few people in the theater this afternoon, including the people sitting next to us, who brought 3 young adorable, but too chatty for a movie like this kids and kindly left a pile of trash for someone to clean up.

I enjoyed it more than I expected, but my husband who has been to all the Superhero movies with me, said it's in the top 3 he's seen. 

Then again, I enjoyed Batman vs. Superman.

 

[Gatsby77]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:25 PM, Bosco685 said:

Interesting how some play this same drum, over and over. Yet they never face facts. Even when previously they have noted BVS had the worst CBM dropoff.

This chart speaks for itself.

You know that BvS isn't in the same league as any of those films in terms of studio budget, expectation or importance.

And if you have to trot out Steel and Jonah Hex to prove it wasn't technically the "worst drop-off", well... 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Gatsby77

[Straw-Man]

to be fair, it isn't only the perceived anti-d.c. boardies that "play the same drum over and over."   sooo many times i read a post and know without a doubt who posted it, without yet looking over at the identity.  these are boardies that favor the dceu.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Straw-Man

[jsilverjanet]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:48 PM, Straw-Man said:

to be fair, it isn't only the perceived anti-d.c. boardies that "play the same drum over and over."   sooo many times i read a post and know without a doubt who posted it, without yet looking over at the identity.  these are boardies that favor the dceu.

I certainly favor the DC movies far more. I think the tone in them is more adult than the Marvel ones.

[skypinkblu]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:48 PM, Straw-Man said:

to be fair, it isn't only the perceived anti-d.c. boardies that "play the same drum over and over."   sooo many times i read a post and know without a doubt who posted it, without yet looking over at the identity.  these are boardies that favor the dceu.

I'd say in collecting, I favor DC, but in movies, I'm not proud, I'd watch anything. I just told someone tonight, that I think the first Iron Man was my favorite...but that's also because I loved his origin in the comics.

I don't think comic movies are done, there is still too much raw material that can be used...they might be different, but saying they are done is like saying sci fi movies are done. I think people just didn't realize there were stories beyond Superman and Batman until they saw movies like Iron Man.

 

[Bosco685]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:32 PM, Gatsby77 said:

This chart speaks for itself.

You know that BvS isn't in the same league as any of those films in terms of studio budget, expectation or importance.

And if you have to trot out Steel and Jonah Hex to prove it wasn't technically the "worst drop-off", well... 

I notice your rhetoric disregarded the large Domestic Home Theater sales with the 'abandoned' properties, along with the 31st MCU franchise film for weekend dropoffs.

It's just more of the same.

[Gatsby77]

“31st MCU franchise film?”

You mean an Ant-Man movie vs. a film starring Batman & Superman that also brings Wonder Woman to the screen for the first time?

Ant-Man?

[Bosco685]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:48 PM, Straw-Man said:

to be fair, it isn't only the perceived anti-d.c. boardies that "play the same drum over and over."   sooo many times i read a post and know without a doubt who posted it, without yet looking over at the identity.  these are boardies that favor the dceu.

You miss something.

To blame all that occurred within this ever-changing "DCEU" on the director of three films when people clearly recognize the WB Studios execs tampered with their own properties as non-comic book disruptors ignores the root cause.

Zack Snyder recognized Marvel Studios had captured the market for the connected action/comedy franchise. So to copy it exactly would be seen as just that. So he went for the more serious Fantasy/Action genre. Yet even with that WB forced the "Dawn of Justice" title on the sequel, cut out 30 minutes of BVS because it was concerned with theater screen reuse, and never marketed the Elseworlds concept.

So who do folks blame? Why the director. Of course. To the point on social media they mock the suicide of his daughter because he didn't do it like the MCU.

Or professional movie critics that were so offended by his work, they committed to trashing any future projects.

That's the film culture we live in nowadays. Do it the way I expect, or I'll destroy you. Don't offer serious film tones or surprises.

And to continue on with "abandoning the Snyderverse" when the theater aftermarket sales shows even then there are strong merchandising, blu-ray/DVD/digital results on supposedly bad properties is forced myopia.

Or you could pretend it just comes down to ignoring these are bad movies. That works for some.

[Bosco685]

On 6/20/2023 at 5:14 AM, Gatsby77 said:

“31st MCU franchise film?”

You mean an Ant-Man movie vs. a film starring Batman & Superman that also brings Wonder Woman to the screen for the first time?

Ant-Man?

Yup. More of the same.

Kang. The next Thanos, laying his plans leading up to the next phase of the MCU Avengers movie with Kang Dynasty. You know. The big event movies that makes this franchise the escalating adventures that made it a success.

Or just pretend "it's just a silly Ant-Man movie".