ebay observation

[the blob]

Has anyone noticed a trend of people buying raw books listed as NM or NM- and them returning them because they do not fit the criteria for 9.8 books, presumably due to ebay ' s required generous return policies? I went 16 years and 1000 plus comic transaction without anyone returning or complaining about any nm- or better book other than a couple damaged in shipping or where I flat out missed something, but now, anything with a spine tick, etc.

? Makes me wonder if there is a lot of fishing for potential under graded cgc material knowing that there is little risk due to returns.

[1Cool]

I've seen it lately. But I think I might be some people just believing NM means no spine ticks. Saw a guy the other day complaining on Facebook about getting a NM book with 2 tiny spine ticks. We have gone from grading everyone nice looking a NM fifteen years ago to now the smallest spine tick drops it to VF/NM.

[fastballspecial]

There is a small % like that. Its mainly slab buyers/sellers who cant grade raw.

 

Every once in a blue moon you get an OCD collector who doesn't know grading, but its rare.

 

[cousin itt]

So, who is out the shipping cost in this situation?

[1Cool]

So, who is out the shipping cost in this situation?

 

Seller is

[kav]

Better put in the listing 'NM-2 small spine tics. Otherwise it would be Mint.'

[Bills Comics]

Has anyone noticed a trend of people buying raw books listed as NM or NM- and them returning them because they do not fit the criteria for 9.8 books, presumably due to ebay ' s required generous return policies? I went 16 years and 1000 plus comic transaction without anyone returning or complaining about any nm- or better book other than a couple damaged in shipping or where I flat out missed something, but now, anything with a spine tick, etc.

? Makes me wonder if there is a lot of fishing for potential under graded cgc material knowing that there is little risk due to returns.

 

 

Plus it seems saying a book is VF , or Fine or whatever it is has no appeal. You need to put numbers . IE: 9.4, 9.8 , 8.5 etc .

[the blob]

I am thinking of just saying high grade, medium grade, and low grade.

[kav]

smart

[the blob]

This just happened in the last month for me. They seized on "nm" in the description and expected them to be perfect. Not giving a specific grade will probably lose me sales, but returns are a PITA. Like I said, 1000 plus transactions and never a return on a high grade book except Where it got damaged in transit or I just flat out missed something big like a back cover tape pull.

[the blob]

Eating shipping both ways on $15 books is just too much.

[the blob]

Anyway, sorry to beat a dead horse, I'm just a little shell shocked getting three in the last month out of about 35 sales after so many years of doing really well in this regard.

[Buzzetta]

I have four packages that are waiting to go out. Would love to move this stack as they are already wrapped, boxed and ready to go.

[rjrjr]

Anyway, sorry to beat a dead horse, I'm just a little shell shocked getting three in the last month out of about 35 sales after so many years of doing really well in this regard.

 

Are your pictures big and clear such that the buyer can see exactly what they are getting?

[Wall-Crawler]

I am thinking of just saying high grade, medium grade, and low grade.

 

I switched to this format several years ago.

 

I provide a high res scan of at least the front cover and will provide a scan of the back upon request. For keys and higher value raw books, I automatically provide a scan of the front and back.

 

I also list a few things that are and are not visible in the scan in the description of the item.

 

I may be leaving money on the table with this format but (knock on wood), things have been going pretty smoothly for awhile now on the condition/item as described front.

 

Might be worth a shot.

[the blob]

Anyway, sorry to beat a dead horse, I'm just a little shell shocked getting three in the last month out of about 35 sales after so many years of doing really well in this regard.

 

Are your pictures big and clear such that the buyer can see exactly what they are getting?

 

No, my scanners are not great. But a lot of it is this notion that a NM book is supposed to be as defect-free as a 9.8.

 

Were these expensive books I would have less of an issue, but the shipping back and forth on a $15 book..uhg.

[90sChild]

To be fair I see just as many sellers mis-labeling their 9.2-9.0 books as 9.8-9.6.

It is a general trend of ignorance about correct grading I believe. There's always gonna be the one person trying to scam the system, though.

It is easier to avoid as a buyer, but there's not much you can do about it as a seller.

All my listings state no grade is guaranteed and you are bidding specifically on the book pictured only. Create an account on an image hosting website like imgur.com and upload high-res images that ebay would otherwise down-size. Link the album in your description and everyone will know what they are getting. The other problem is sellers using poor quality images.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Has anyone noticed a trend of people buying raw books listed as NM or NM- and them returning them because they do not fit the criteria for 9.8 books, presumably due to ebay ' s required generous return policies? I went 16 years and 1000 plus comic transaction without anyone returning or complaining about any nm- or better book other than a couple damaged in shipping or where I flat out missed something, but now, anything with a spine tick, etc.

? Makes me wonder if there is a lot of fishing for potential under graded cgc material knowing that there is little risk due to returns.

 

I had a buyer...."fishyxliar"...noted in the eBay Blocked Bidder List thread...who opened up a claim against me for "items not as described", for a set of Batman #426-429, because the books were listed as "HIGH GRADE."

 

He essentially freaked out...well, here's part of the exchange:

 

"These would grade a F/VF in grade level: Fine (FN) condition Fine/Very Fine FN/VF 7.0 Fine+ FN+ 6.5 Fine FN 6.0 Fine- FN- 5.5 A comic in FN condition is considered "above average" but still displays some wear. In general, the eye appeal is somewhat reduced due to either an accumulation of minor defects or one or two moderate defects. Acceptable defects on a FN copy include: Slight spine roll, a moderate accumulation of spine stresses that may break color, a spine split of less than 1/2", minor water spotting or residue (less than the size of a dime), an impacted corner, and moderate foxing. Can you tell how this one is more comparable to this, than an M grading? If they pages weren't out of place and the discoloration hadn't reached a tan-cream color, then we would be talking about an actual 9.0 grade level, but with the spine stress, and the color breaks, along with the pages comic out of it, the staples no longer in a straight line, shows that there's been more wear to the comic than shown. "

 

And this:

 

"Exactly, you know very WELL that these comic books aren't high grade, that you were lying about the comic books grade, and in fact, still lying. Superb condition, not true at all, I'll send it to you the same way I got them, nicely packaged, because they haven't even left the table after I opened them. I can't believe you're literally trying to tell me these are above 9.0, NEAR MINT : 9.4 NEAR MINT- : 9.2 This book is an excellent copy with great eye appeal. It is vibrant and clean with supple pages. The spine may have a couple of very small stress lines at the most 1/4 inch the surface color around the line must not be noticeably broken. The spine is almost completely flat. The cover is relatively flat with almost no surface wear and the cover inks are generally bright with medium to high reflectivity. The staples may show some discoloration, but it's not too noticeable on first glance. The inside pages and covers usually will be off-white to white, but can be creamy or slightly yellowish. Here's another one, does that say PAGES ARE OFF-CENTERED TO YOU? No. Didn't think so. AND LOOK AT THAT. FINE / VERY FINE : 7.0 Slightly better condition than FINE +: 6.5, but in lesser condition than the grade above. FINE+ : 6.5 FINE : 6.0 FINE- : 5.5 This comic is definitely a well-read copy, but can still be a very desirable copy. This could have one major defect like a larger piece out of the cover (1/4 inch to 1/8 inch) or a one-inch plus tear. It has stress lines around the staples and creases from the opening and closing of the cover. The whiteness of the pages has been changed to off-white to yellowish color. This could have a reading or subscription crease or a rolled spine, but is not damaged enough to reduce eye appeal dramatically. Some discoloration, fading in colors and even minor soiling is allowed. The cover and/or inside pages could have minor tears and/or folds Cover can be loose from one staple, but cover cannot be completely detached from interior. Pages and inside covers could be brown but not brittle. Depending on the grade of the copy certain amounts are available in this grade. i.e a book that looks 8.0 with a piece of tape on the interior cover is acceptable in this grade. DID THAT JUST SAY A LOW GRADE HAS A ROLL? WHICH IS OFF CENTERED? HUH. S H O C K I N G. On top of that, I shouldn't have to pay return on damaged products, that I was lied to about. Glowing review, can't wait!"

 

And more like this, essentially telling me I had ripped him off, that I'd raped his mother, and slaughtered his whole family.

 

So, I told him to send them back...and he dared me to send them to CGC, so I took him up on his offer.

 

Guess what the books came back as.....?

 

[D84]

Has anyone noticed a trend of people buying raw books listed as NM or NM- and them returning them because they do not fit the criteria for 9.8 books, presumably due to ebay ' s required generous return policies? I went 16 years and 1000 plus comic transaction without anyone returning or complaining about any nm- or better book other than a couple damaged in shipping or where I flat out missed something, but now, anything with a spine tick, etc.

? Makes me wonder if there is a lot of fishing for potential under graded cgc material knowing that there is little risk due to returns.

 

I had a buyer...."fishyxliar"...noted in the eBay Blocked Bidder List thread...who opened up a claim against me for "items not as described", for a set of Batman #426-429, because the books were listed as "HIGH GRADE."

 

He essentially freaked out...well, here's part of the exchange:

 

"These would grade a F/VF in grade level: Fine (FN) condition Fine/Very Fine FN/VF 7.0 Fine+ FN+ 6.5 Fine FN 6.0 Fine- FN- 5.5 A comic in FN condition is considered "above average" but still displays some wear. In general, the eye appeal is somewhat reduced due to either an accumulation of minor defects or one or two moderate defects. Acceptable defects on a FN copy include: Slight spine roll, a moderate accumulation of spine stresses that may break color, a spine split of less than 1/2", minor water spotting or residue (less than the size of a dime), an impacted corner, and moderate foxing. Can you tell how this one is more comparable to this, than an M grading? If they pages weren't out of place and the discoloration hadn't reached a tan-cream color, then we would be talking about an actual 9.0 grade level, but with the spine stress, and the color breaks, along with the pages comic out of it, the staples no longer in a straight line, shows that there's been more wear to the comic than shown. "

 

And this:

 

"Exactly, you know very WELL that these comic books aren't high grade, that you were lying about the comic books grade, and in fact, still lying. Superb condition, not true at all, I'll send it to you the same way I got them, nicely packaged, because they haven't even left the table after I opened them. I can't believe you're literally trying to tell me these are above 9.0, NEAR MINT : 9.4 NEAR MINT- : 9.2 This book is an excellent copy with great eye appeal. It is vibrant and clean with supple pages. The spine may have a couple of very small stress lines at the most 1/4 inch the surface color around the line must not be noticeably broken. The spine is almost completely flat. The cover is relatively flat with almost no surface wear and the cover inks are generally bright with medium to high reflectivity. The staples may show some discoloration, but it's not too noticeable on first glance. The inside pages and covers usually will be off-white to white, but can be creamy or slightly yellowish. Here's another one, does that say PAGES ARE OFF-CENTERED TO YOU? No. Didn't think so. AND LOOK AT THAT. FINE / VERY FINE : 7.0 Slightly better condition than FINE +: 6.5, but in lesser condition than the grade above. FINE+ : 6.5 FINE : 6.0 FINE- : 5.5 This comic is definitely a well-read copy, but can still be a very desirable copy. This could have one major defect like a larger piece out of the cover (1/4 inch to 1/8 inch) or a one-inch plus tear. It has stress lines around the staples and creases from the opening and closing of the cover. The whiteness of the pages has been changed to off-white to yellowish color. This could have a reading or subscription crease or a rolled spine, but is not damaged enough to reduce eye appeal dramatically. Some discoloration, fading in colors and even minor soiling is allowed. The cover and/or inside pages could have minor tears and/or folds Cover can be loose from one staple, but cover cannot be completely detached from interior. Pages and inside covers could be brown but not brittle. Depending on the grade of the copy certain amounts are available in this grade. i.e a book that looks 8.0 with a piece of tape on the interior cover is acceptable in this grade. DID THAT JUST SAY A LOW GRADE HAS A ROLL? WHICH IS OFF CENTERED? HUH. S H O C K I N G. On top of that, I shouldn't have to pay return on damaged products, that I was lied to about. Glowing review, can't wait!"

 

And more like this, essentially telling me I had ripped him off, that I'd raped his mother, and slaughtered his whole family.

 

So, I told him to send them back...and he dared me to send them to CGC, so I took him up on his offer.

 

Guess what the books came back as.....?

 

 

VFNM or better?

[D84]

Honestly, I think to a certain extent CGC and other grading companies have hurt the hobby. Most people seem to be chasing 9.8 and don't even look at the book.

 

Do you remember when VF 8.0 was desirable copy?