Is GPA (or any guide) a good indication of the current FMV of a book?

[SquareChaos]

Ebay's 10%? Paypal's 3%?

 

This is another big peeve of mine.

 

Ebay's 10% and Paypal's 3% are the COST OF DOING business as a retailer. If the book sells for $100 on Ebay it sold for $100, not $87 net to the seller.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the college system shouldn't make understanding how business works a mandatory course.

 

I have costs when selling on my website. does that automatically mean the buyer is entitled to those if I sell on the boards with its Zero percent cost to the seller?

 

 

I don't know why you try to explain it to people. Most either don't have the common sense and/or business sense, it's become a lost art.

You've made the best posts in this thread but people feel they are entitled these days.

 

As a fellow dealer, I'm not completely concerned with GPA and I've heard it all when someone tries to negotiate using it in their favor.

I concentrate on trends and what the competition has available and I will set pricing according to that. I'm not going to give away keys because someone claims to be a genuine collector. I've sold books that I've actually saw relisted in this place for nearly absolutely zero margin ( and that's people trying to make a buck at this game?!? huh... great strategy.)

Being patient is also a key to success. People who live and die for that one next sale are the ones to be leery of.

 

 

It often amuses me when sellers think their way of doing business is the way it's done across the board. I know plenty of people who sell on eBay and they all take less if they can sell it off of eBay - does that make my assertion gospel when I say eBay adds to the cost of an item? No, but it sure seems to be common sense to state a middle man raises the cost to the buyer. As I previously stated, I don't have a business degree, so maybe I'm missing something

[musicmeta]

I know this may sound strange , but this is what my feelings are on the subject.

I research prices on all avenues, GPA, board members websites, most of all EBay.

When it really comes down to it. If the book looks nice and it's exactly what I want, I will buy for a premium price . disregarding eBay, or GPA.

 

+1 My feelings exactly. I've paid "silly" money for a book but "I...had...to...have...it!"

[StuporMan]

I've had several discussions about the going price of a book this last week and the buyer always quotes the GPA average as the price they will not exceed. A couple have sounded irritated when I decline their offer and ask them to point out an available copy of the book at that price and none can find a book but say they are patient and will just wait for a copy to come available. Inevitably a less patient buyer comes around and grabs the book at the price I asked for.

 

My question is two fold - if every copy of a book available is $800 or more then doesn't the current base market price become $800? If GPA says there has been 10 copies of a book sold in the last 12 months and the average is $675 then is the going price $675 even though there are no copies available at that price and a theoretically a bunch of the sales had to have been above $675 to make the average?

 

If every SALE has been at $800, then the market value becomes $800. If every available copy is $800 and the market value isn't $800, they will sit until someone brings their market value down closer to actual market value. Sometimes there will be a slingshot effect where that same book was moving at $600 briskly, then sellers jack up their BINs to $800 and it sits for a couple weeks. If auction sales of the same book start to reach close to $800, you'll see that book start moving at $800 again.

 

I see a lot of people quote/use GPA data inaccurately. The last sale may show market value to one person at one sale, but the average value shows the trend. I usually go off of average value +/- 10% to make my decisions. That's where those up and down arrows become important too. Then again, GPA is selective in its data, so it isn't a comprehensive tool.

 

While your analysis on the averages makes sense, both buyers and sellers will quote whichever

price is better for their situation. 90 day, 12 month, last sale, page quality of last sale, etc. whatever works better for them. Bargains can be had when the seller is not interpreting the data correctly. Knowledge of the eye appeal of the last sale also helps. Big honking crease 6.0 vs a loose centerfold 6.0 are not equal.

 

GPA will usually note cracked case, qualified, cracked-out, etc.

[StuporMan]

If the book has many entries in GPA, I tend to think 12 mo avg +/- std deviation is a good price. This filters out some of the outliers. To comment on previous arguments, 'for sale' prices have absolutely nothing to do with fair market value. Until something is sold and recorded, it's like it never happened. Which brings up another point that often you have sellers quoting 'private sale' prices. Since private sale prices can't be verified, they are completely BS to me. I'm not sure how anyone would take 'private sale' prices as a consideration, especially as a buyer.

 

Private sales also include cons tho...

[StuporMan]

I've had several discussions about the going price of a book this last week and the buyer always quotes the GPA average as the price they will not exceed. A couple have sounded irritated when I decline their offer and ask them to point out an available copy of the book at that price and none can find a book but say they are patient and will just wait for a copy to come available. Inevitably a less patient buyer comes around and grabs the book at the price I asked for.

 

My question is two fold - if every copy of a book available is $800 or more then doesn't the current base market price become $800? If GPA says there has been 10 copies of a book sold in the last 12 months and the average is $675 then is the going price $675 even though there are no copies available at that price and a theoretically a bunch of the sales had to have been above $675 to make the average?

 

I totally agree and as a buyer, I've made purchases based on where I see a particular book is heading, which often means paying above GPA. But as a seller, I've had to be realistic. Depending on the book and what I paid for it, I'm happy to let it go at a discount so that the buyer can feel they have the advantage. My only selling rule is not to sell for less than what I paid.

 

This is starting to be a problem when comparing GPA to "paid for" numbers.

 

I have come across a lot of people lately who are selling a book for higher than GPA. When I ask them to come down to GPA, they respond that that is less then what they paid for it.

 

Then don't sell the book!!!

 

If you were dumb enough to pay more than GPA, then you cannot expect a buyer to also be dumb enough to buy it off of you. Hold onto to that book until GPA at least matches what you put into it. Otherwise take the loss.

 

This is one of the more absurd things you've said, and that's saying a lot.

 

[StuporMan]

Lets use real word examples - I got a PM about a Tomb of Dracula 10 CGC 9.4 that I've just started selling and set a price of $750 for it. I got a PM saying the last sale was for $650 and the 90 day average was less then the $750. The book seems to be pretty hot so I asked him to look at the other copies on the market right now and none are even close to $750. He said he couldn't go above the last sale of $650 and was confident he could find another at that price if he waited. I find more and more people (especially on the boards) will not go above the 90 day average no matter what book it is.

 

I do find this also happens on Facebook like with the Y: Last Man #1 CGC I recently sold. I had it listed up at $700 and didn't have a nibble. Dropped it to $650 and someone PMed me and said the GPA is $594 and he wanted it for that much shipped. I pointed out how hot the book is and the price other people were charging and he stuck to the 90 day average. I declined and sold it for $650 on the boards.

 

This is just a few examples of how prevalent sticking to the 90 day average has become.

 

Eh buyer could know that he can't touch it at auction for <$750 and trying to low-ball you. If a buyer came at me with that, I'd offer $700 and if he still held out, I'd wait for a buyer (like me ) who really wanted it. Don't sales to fans make you fell all warm and fuzzy, they do for me!

[Chillax23]

Ebay's 10%? Paypal's 3%?

 

This is another big peeve of mine.

 

Ebay's 10% and Paypal's 3% are the COST OF DOING business as a retailer. If the book sells for $100 on Ebay it sold for $100, not $87 net to the seller.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the college system shouldn't make understanding how business works a mandatory course.

 

I have costs when selling on my website. does that automatically mean the buyer is entitled to those if I sell on the boards with its Zero percent cost to the seller?

 

 

I don't know why you try to explain it to people. Most either don't have the common sense and/or business sense, it's become a lost art.

You've made the best posts in this thread but people feel they are entitled these days.

 

As a fellow dealer, I'm not completely concerned with GPA and I've heard it all when someone tries to negotiate using it in their favor.

I concentrate on trends and what the competition has available and I will set pricing according to that. I'm not going to give away keys because someone claims to be a genuine collector. I've sold books that I've actually saw relisted in this place for nearly absolutely zero margin ( and that's people trying to make a buck at this game?!? huh... great strategy.)

Being patient is also a key to success. People who live and die for that one next sale are the ones to be leery of.

 

 

It often amuses me when sellers think their way of doing business is the way it's done across the board. I know plenty of people who sell on eBay and they all take less if they can sell it off of eBay - does that make my assertion gospel when I say eBay adds to the cost of an item? No, but it sure seems to be common sense to state a middle man raises the cost to the buyer. As I previously stated, I don't have a business degree, so maybe I'm missing something

 

So are the people who are "Dealers" who sell on the boards and on ebay saying they price their books the same across the two venues? I would assume, and I have seen plenty of examples, of books that make the transition from the sale forums on the boards to ebay and are marked up 10% - which I would assume is done to cover the transaction cost that is added by using Ebay.

 

Also, GPA uses public sales data from Ebay and other auction houses - so yes all GPA prices include fees that the buyer pays and the sellers never see. For example a $100 GPA recorded sale off of Ebay nets the seller $90 and costs the buyer $100. Why a seller and buyer wouldn't work out a deal on the boards for something less than $100, if given the chance, boggles my mind - it is a win win for everyone.

 

Plus, a dealer getting the GPA average or last sale (if that is higher than average) is already doing better than he/she could anywhere else because there are no transaction fees on the boards (paypal is not a board transaction fee). IF you have a website you host and sell books on that is great and it likely nets you good business - but those costs relative to board sales are irrelevant to the boardie - if they didn't find that book via your website.

 

All that is to say that GPA is a useful tool for certain books - and it can be used to benefit both buyer and seller. However, both buyers and sellers can be unreasonable when using GPA.

[mar-vell]

I've had several discussions about the going price of a book this last week and the buyer always quotes the GPA average as the price they will not exceed. A couple have sounded irritated when I decline their offer and ask them to point out an available copy of the book at that price and none can find a book but say they are patient and will just wait for a copy to come available. Inevitably a less patient buyer comes around and grabs the book at the price I asked for.

 

My question is two fold - if every copy of a book available is $800 or more then doesn't the current base market price become $800? If GPA says there has been 10 copies of a book sold in the last 12 months and the average is $675 then is the going price $675 even though there are no copies available at that price and a theoretically a bunch of the sales had to have been above $675 to make the average?

 

GPA isn't the be-all end all its just a good indicator of current values for a given book. Books that present exceptionally well or exhibit higher levels of preservation for its technical grade often fetch higher than the average of the numbers and in these cases clicking on the numerical grade in the GPA you can see what the high price paid for an issue was and use this as evidence your book is worth more than average.

 

In a situation where getting the top paid price at auction simply isn't enough I think the seller starts to approach asking a retail price which can be any price they dream of. Often these books sit unsold but if a seller is willing to wait some of these prices can be realized when the right buyer comes along.

 

Come to think of it I purchased a major key on these boards recently and the seller was originally asking $650 more than GPA. I wasn't willing to pay way over GPA but I felt it would be bad form to inform the seller "hey i only pay GPA" so I simply offered GPA for the book without mentioning the site. The seller responded that he knew it was GPA I offered but he felt this book was nicer than the last copy he sold and he made a counteroffer that was $150 more but included shipping and the deal was done.

 

to sum up I think GPA accurately reflects the current market well enough that a seller shouldn't

take exception to buyer only willing to spend the average. i don't think it should be considered an insulting offer but a reasonably enough serious one that warrants a polite refusal. I think i mentioned in the paragraph above the polite way to offer GPA but if a buyer throws down the gauntlet at least they are attempting a serious offer and not intentionally wasting your time.

[Vger7]

I would think it's dumber to take losses on a book. I know many people who are impatient and get hit all the time. I usually wait until a book has appreciated before trying to sell or I try to time a sale with movie hype. Case in point, I sold all 3 of my DD#1’s recently above GPA. Being patient does pay off...

 

Much of this depends on the book of course. As such, my mantra is: It's better to overpay on a quality book as opposed to underpay on a junk book. This philosophy has been working well for me so far.

[Tony S]

GPA is a useful tool. OPG is a useful tool. Previous sales on sites that don't report to GPA (say CL) is a tool. Smart sellers and buyers use all the tools available.

 

Look for actual auctions to buy better books. And watch bidding to make sure you aren't competing with some shill. But otherwise, auctions are overall the best way to pay market. Lots of BIN's on eBay at "hope for" prices. The auction comes along and you buy it for just a bit more than the next highest bidder.

[Awax]

I've had several discussions about the going price of a book this last week and the buyer always quotes the GPA average as the price they will not exceed. A couple have sounded irritated when I decline their offer and ask them to point out an available copy of the book at that price and none can find a book but say they are patient and will just wait for a copy to come available. Inevitably a less patient buyer comes around and grabs the book at the price I asked for.

 

My question is two fold - if every copy of a book available is $800 or more then doesn't the current base market price become $800? If GPA says there has been 10 copies of a book sold in the last 12 months and the average is $675 then is the going price $675 even though there are no copies available at that price and a theoretically a bunch of the sales had to have been above $675 to make the average?

 

I totally agree and as a buyer, I've made purchases based on where I see a particular book is heading, which often means paying above GPA. But as a seller, I've had to be realistic. Depending on the book and what I paid for it, I'm happy to let it go at a discount so that the buyer can feel they have the advantage. My only selling rule is not to sell for less than what I paid.

 

This is starting to be a problem when comparing GPA to "paid for" numbers.

 

I have come across a lot of people lately who are selling a book for higher than GPA. When I ask them to come down to GPA, they respond that that is less then what they paid for it.

 

Then don't sell the book!!!

 

If you were dumb enough to pay more than GPA, then you cannot expect a buyer to also be dumb enough to buy it off of you. Hold onto to that book until GPA at least matches what you put into it. Otherwise take the loss.

 

This is one of the more absurd things you've said, and that's saying a lot.

 

 

 

 

[1Cool]

GPA is a useful tool. OPG is a useful tool. Previous sales on sites that don't report to GPA (say CL) is a tool. Smart sellers and buyers use all the tools available.

 

Look for actual auctions to buy better books. And watch bidding to make sure you aren't competing with some shill. But otherwise, auctions are overall the best way to pay market. Lots of BIN's on eBay at "hope for" prices. The auction comes along and you buy it for just a bit more than the next highest bidder.

 

Reason #103 to never do auctions unles you really really need the money.

 

BIN with a best offer allows you to still be in control of the final sale price and have the buyers compete with you rather then with themselves. Of course then you miss out in that 1:100 bidding war.

[lizards2]

Smart sellers and buyers use all the tools available.

 

So, you think we're all tools? Nice.