Steve Ditko chewed me out

[vodou]

Anyone have an opinion on why he got so cheesed off by my letter? Is there anything there that I wrote that could have been interpreted as an insult?

My first thought on this -echoed by some Comic-L folks and here- was very disrespectful to post private communications publicly, without being granted that permission. No matter the content. The gap between you not understanding this and some of us not understanding your doing so...approximately the same as the gap between your letter and Steve's reply.

 

Ditko is one man that owes the hobby nothing, for sure. This is no partnership, no quid pro quo, between the fans and himself.

 

Steve has strongly held rigid philosophical opinions that...unlike pretty much everybody...he has been (to my eyes) entirely consistent on for at least forty years. Maybe fifty or sixty depending on where you want to draw the line. With this in mind, he's never softened his stance for the one reason almost all hard-liners save martyrs eventually do: because he needed money.

 

He's never gone back to the hobby, hand out, looking for paid convention appearances, sketches/commissions, etc etc. Had he, then there would be a fanboy-Steve partnership. A quid pro quo requiring regular care and feeding. (Something Neal Adams seems not to understand, to bring up another recent 'disappointed' fan exchange that bubbled up on Comicart-L.) This is not a knock on any artist that does mine the hobby for income after (or at any time) the Big Two jobs have dried up; none of them to my knowledge hold his stated positions on creativity and property rights. No hypocrisy among them, broadly. But Steve does hold those positions. And maintains them. He has not wavered. His reply to your message, while curt is also honest and to the point. Wouldn't you expect that from the sort of person I've described above, the sort of person described this way by just about any sweeping article on Steve and his career with a scope greater than "dude, AWESOME Spidey artist!!!"? So by begging the question (writing in such a way that -if replied to- sort of forces a "you sad confused person" tone) you got what we all would expect you'd get. A mild reprimand. Mild in the sense that he didn't simply tell you to eff off. Ya know? Is that really so noteworthy after all?

 

Meanwhile, I also had a letter exchange with him maybe eight or nine years ago. My letter to him was quite different than yours, more along the lines of respecting his privacy and socio-political opinions...and his reply to me was quite different too. He returned that same respect and was wonderfully cordial (but still straight to the point -a wonderful thing in today's age of nuanced 'perception is reality' perma-bs everywhere you go: all branding and marketing 24/7...) Maybe it's as simple as you have to give, to get? But you have to have 'it' first to give. Another way of saying, effective communication means understanding your audience and tailoring your message to how best they will receive it.

 

I've never shared that private communication and likely won't until he passes or I do first and my heirs chuck the lot of it up to HA or wherever. Going in, Steve always knew he was drawing for publication, and had the opportunity to negotiate terms he agreed with or not (and walk away). Each and every time. We'll never know how many jobs he has walked away from, the terms not agreeable! Our letter exchange, where I did not explicitly state upfront for later public consumption -giving him the opportunity to negotiate against those terms (or walk away), thus gives me no additional rights past (implied) 'my eyes only- without Steve's approval.

[Doc Joe]

what a load of BS in my opinion.

 

some thoughts...

 

1. Its not hard to be nice yet for some people it clearly is.

 

My friends - at ridiculous expense - took their 11 year old daughter to see Hamilton; she read the book, knows the music by heart etc etc, after the show they were ready to go home and she was like, no way, back stage door! They went back there and several of the biggest stars including Lin came out and signed EVERY autograph request, they were there for over 30 minutes speaking with people etc. Do they have to do that...no. They are decent people and respect their fans and acknowledge that (through their hard work) they have created something very very special.

 

2. If you are going to take the time to write back its not hard to say

 

"thank you for your letter, its hard to remember all the things that happened in the past, I liked drawing Green Goblin but now I like to focus on the future. Glad you enjoyed our comics."

 

3. At the same time people are human; it almost never lives up to expectations meeting an artist "hero". They have flaws as do we all. You were much better seeing Micky Mantle from a distance rather than knowing him as a drunk.

 

I have had really weird encounters with (comic book) artists and amazing ones.

Brian Bolland was incredible, witty, chatty, gracious, about to talk about anything. Happy to have a photo taken etc. Mike Grell is gregarious and nice.

 

I am in a profession where I do literally the same thing every day; I seem to be well suited to it and I approach it that even though this is the 12th time today and 50th time this week we are talking about someones skin cancer it is the first time for this person and it means a huge amount to them. These artists have to know there is a large sentimental connection with the work they do; they can ignore than or respect what it means for the fan. Sure they get asked the same thing every time, its only natural. Deal with it.

 

 

4. I am sure they get a lot of letters (actually I have no idea); just seems so much easier in life to be nice rather than crotchety.

 

5. And no I am not going to 'read up' on how someone responds to letter before writing to them; what sort of stalker does that? Frankly I did not even know he was still alive!

 

So I don't think there was anything wrong with your letter

 

I think he is a grumpy who is probably not the nicest guy. There is no reason he needs to be a nice guy, just why bother to write back if you are not in the mood.

 

Similarly you never know and he may think he wrote a very nice letter to you considering the one he wanted to write.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Funnyslover]

I was under the assumption that Ditko did not sign his name to anything.

 

 

No, Steve Ditko will refuse all requests for an autograph by returning a hand written letter which he ends with a signature.

 

A simple google query returns his telephone number and work address on 51st.

Years ago he could be engaged on, for example, a Randian point.

Replies were brief and forthright but interesting.

Good luck and g'nite

[mwd67]

I didn't know the history of Mr. Ditko's feelings about his past. I don't really read up on the artists themselves. I started collecting original art just a few years ago and I'm slowly learning about the artists now that I communicate with them. I was told that he was a bit hard but I'm from New York as well so I was expecting an East Coast demeanor. I wasn't expecting what I got. I removed the "not a happy camper" comment in the title. That was a bit snippy of me but I was just so taken aback by his response. I don't think I could have been more kind and respectful to him.

[vodou]

what a load of BS in my opinion.

 

some thoughts...

 

1. Its not hard to be nice yet for some people it clearly is.

 

My friends - at ridiculous expense - took their 11 year old daughter to see Hamilton; she read the book, knows the music by heart etc etc, after the show they were ready to go home and she was like, no way, back stage door! They went back there and several of the biggest stars including Lin came out and signed EVERY autograph request, they were there for over 30 minutes speaking with people etc. Do they have to do that...no. They are decent people and respect their fans and acknowledge that (through their hard work) they have created something very very special.

 

2. If you are going to take the time to write back its not hard to say

 

"thank you for your letter, its hard to remember all the things that happened in the past, I liked drawing Green Goblin but now I like to focus on the future. Glad you enjoyed our comics."

 

3. At the same time people are human; it almost never lives up to expectations meeting an artist "hero". They have flaws as do we all. You were much better seeing Micky Mantle from a distance rather than knowing him as a drunk.

 

I have had really weird encounters with (comic book) artists and amazing ones.

Brian Bolland was incredible, witty, chatty, gracious, about to talk about anything. Happy to have a photo taken etc. Mike Grell is gregarious and nice.

 

I am in a profession where I do literally the same thing every day; I seem to be well suited to it and I approach it that even though this is the 12th time today and 50th time this week we are talking about someones skin cancer it is the first time for this person and it means a huge amount to them. These artists have to know there is a large sentimental connection with the work they do; they can ignore than or respect what it means for the fan. Sure they get asked the same thing every time, its only natural. Deal with it.

 

 

4. I am sure they get a lot of letters (actually I have no idea); just seems so much easier in life to be nice rather than crotchety.

 

5. And no I am not going to 'read up' on how someone responds to letter before writing to them; what sort of stalker does that? Frankly I did not even know he was still alive!

 

So I don't think there was anything wrong with your letter

 

I think he is a grumpy who is probably not the nicest guy. There is no reason he needs to be a nice guy, just why bother to write back if you are not in the mood.

 

Similarly you never know and he may think he wrote a very nice letter to you considering the one he wanted to write.

 

All your examples, including your own are: professional appearances (where property rights -in the form of one's time and professional expertise- have been willingly and temporarily exchanged for compensation). Not the case when you approach somebody privately, at their home (in the form of a letter).

 

Or if you prefer, may I have your home address and send the skin cancer patient in my family to visit...maybe on a Sunday when you don't have office hours...for a general consultation but also specifically to discuss some disputed (and possibly litigious), definitely disagreeable, patient history from many years ago, and how you feel about it?

 

A famous gripe among doctors is how everybody in their personal life, and their extended friends and friends of friends, upon finding out there is a doctor in the room...feels free to solicit random medical advice at dinner parties, etc. Where else would somebody expect to get professional activity for free outside the office? Evidently when writing or calling upon artists at home!

[Kevin76]

What I took from the letter was "Don't expect me to remember who did what and with who because I couldn't care less now"

[accessndx]

I didn't think anyone wrote anything by hand anymore.

 

There's this new thing called the telegraph.

[tv horror]

I soooooooooo much want an Artist's edition of his work, he is a man to be admired.

[Doc Joe]

 

All your examples, including your own are: professional appearances (where property rights -in the form of one's time and professional expertise- have been willingly and temporarily exchanged for compensation). Not the case when you approach somebody privately, at their home (in the form of a letter).

 

Or if you prefer, may I have your home address and send the skin cancer patient in my family to visit...maybe on a Sunday when you don't have office hours...for a general consultation but also specifically to discuss some disputed (and possibly litigious), definitely disagreeable, patient history from many years ago, and how you feel about it?

 

A famous gripe among doctors is how everybody in their personal life, and their extended friends and friends of friends, upon finding out there is a doctor in the room...feels free to solicit random medical advice at dinner parties, etc. Where else would somebody expect to get professional activity for free outside the office? Evidently when writing or calling upon artists at home!

 

I have no real words to respond to the bizarreness of your thoughts.

 

He wrote a letter; he did not ask for professional services; he did not ask for a drawing or a picture, he asked him some questions. If there had been no response thats one thing but he chose to respond. In a dickish manner.

 

This is not a professional intrusion. If he had turned up and asked for a sketch that would be different. Yes its different when people actively turn up to a con to do sketches, they chose to do that.

 

People signing autographs after a Broadway show is their choice, they were compensated for putting on a show; they are not for signing autographs afterwards - same with baseball players at the stadium. Some will appreciate their fans and sign balls, others don't care for it.

 

If you call up and want to send a patient over then yes I will accommodate that where others will not. If you are a friend then yes I would see you on the weekend at my house but otherwise in what world do you see an analogy with writing a letter and trying to get a professional opinion in a substandard setting?

 

Fine to say you disagree and that any letter written to anyone is an intrusion but you might find the majority disagree with your take on this. That should be a hint that you might not be right.

 

 

 

[Bronty]

I get where you are both coming from actually. And I tend to agree with vodou, ditko is private person. He does not need to answer fan mail from work he did 50 years ago. He owes no one that. Hence the analogy to work you did or may do.

 

Yet, your point is, why answer and be a spoon. Answer nicely or don't answer.

[comix4fun]

I get where you are both coming from actually. And I tend to agree with vodou, ditko is private person. He does not need to answer fan mail from work he did 50 years ago. He owes no one that. Hence the analogy to work you did or may do.

 

Yet, your point is, why answer and be a spoon. Answer nicely or don't answer.

 

 

 

It is an odd balance Ditko strikes, right?

 

He doesn't owe anyone an answer to anything he did 50 years ago, but he answers anyway.

 

I think he'd be well within his rights to read the letter that was sent to him and toss it, but he either believes it's common courtesy to reply or he really wants to explain why he's not answering the question.

 

 

[AKA Rick]

My first thought on this -echoed by some Comic-L folks and here- was very disrespectful to post private communications publicly, without being granted that permission. No matter the content.

 

I agree with this point personally, to post a private communication, especially where it feels like it's putting a person in negative light is especially a poor judgment call. I can understand in part if it's a "touchy feeling" good positive vibe of praise and congratulations, but even then, sometimes less is gained and more is lost by putting things out there.

 

If I were Steve Ditko and heard about this letter being shown and discussed, I'd probably lose further faith in humanity and be more prone to lump all fans into the same group, opting never to even bother engaging with any of 'em going forward if he's going to be criticized in a public forum.

 

So, aside from the content of the letter, both the one sent and the one received, the action itself of posting it up to discuss was probably not a good decision, in my opinion.

[MustEatBrains]

I don't see the OP letter as rude at all. Just a crotchety old guy Ditko seems to me. He doesn't seem to give a damn about history of pop culture that he supposedly helped to create and refuses to talk about collaborative efforts he may have had.

 

Just like Bob Kane stole Batman from Bill Finger. I bet Spidey was Kirby/Lee all the way.

 

Hope Ditko sees this and posts a nasty reply.

[Doc Joe]

I get where you are both coming from actually. And I tend to agree with vodou, ditko is private person. He does not need to answer fan mail from work he did 50 years ago. He owes no one that. Hence the analogy to work you did or may do.

 

Yet, your point is, why answer and be a spoon. Answer nicely or don't answer.

 

 

 

It is an odd balance Ditko strikes, right?

 

He doesn't owe anyone an answer to anything he did 50 years ago, but he answers anyway.

 

I think he'd be well within his rights to read the letter that was sent to him and toss it, but he either believes it's common courtesy to reply or he really wants to explain why he's not answering the question.

 

 

+1

 

which is why I think he may be thinking that he is sending a nice reply

 

Maybe I missed it but how does one find out Ditko's address anyway? Want to write and ask if he has any OA lying around, or if he remembers what happened to the Spidey pages , especially the ones from July 1965 and February 1963, who obtained them, what was the price, the circumstance etc, how did he feel about it

 

[oldwhy]

So, aside from the content of the letter, both the one sent and the one received, the action itself of posting it up to discuss was probably not a good decision, in my opinion.

 

I couldn't agree more. Just imagine the same thing happening to one of us. A personal letter you wrote gets posted for the whole world to see and judged by people you don't know. Of course Ditko is a "public" figure and could probably have expected this, but it still doesn't feel right.

 

[kav]

Ok getting ready to send-here's my draft:

 

Dear Mr Ditko:

 

It really annoys me when people keep re hashing the old days of comic creation. Who cares? It is irerelevant. Another thing that annoys me is people buying/selling original art. These were merely pieces drawn for payment to produce a comic book that people shouldn't even care about any more. Plus, most of those old pages were stolen. I wish people would just focus on the future and what comes next. Another thing that really bothers me is people getting comic books signed. These are comic books not a home run ball! On the one hand they downgrade a book if someone writes on it then they spend big bucks to have someone write on it! And by someone I mean Stan Lee. Man he sucks. But I'm not gonna talk about him because that is THE PAST.

 

-No one (my name is irrelevant)

[thethedew]

Maybe I missed it but how does one find out Ditko's address anyway? Want to write and ask if he has any OA lying around, or if he remembers what happened to the Spidey pages , especially the ones from July 1965 and February 1963, who obtained them, what was the price, the circumstance etc, how did he feel about it

 

Joe, you're kidding, right?

[Doc Joe]

Maybe I missed it but how does one find out Ditko's address anyway? Want to write and ask if he has any OA lying around, or if he remembers what happened to the Spidey pages , especially the ones from July 1965 and February 1963, who obtained them, what was the price, the circumstance etc, how did he feel about it

 

Joe, you're kidding, right?

 

Yes

[Peter L]

I read the letter and I didn't read that as mean or rude or attacking you at all. Like with the internet and the message boards, it's hard to determine tone from just letters. I think he is just responding very matter of factly but not as a rebuke.

 

I think he is saying he doesn't remember something that happened over 50 years ago at work. I'm not sure I remember in much detail something I did in detail at work a few years ago.

 

In my work I deal with a lot of 80s and 90 year olds. That's how a lot of them sound. They don't sound that way to be mean. I hope I'm writing letters that make sense when I'm that age because the vast majority of people I interact with have a hard time even writing their names or responding coherently. I'm sure it took a lot of his energy just to write that letter. Most people I deal with that age use up all of their energy just getting out of the house.

 

I did read an article from someone sort of famous (I can't remember who), who went to Ditko's residence and he was there destroying original art from ASM and other art. The writer said he clearly saw even one page would have been worth 10's of thousands but Ditko was just destroying it. He wanted to save something even for himself but was stopped by Ditko aggressively as if he was mad about something. But it may be his philosophical life view like don't look back. Don't rest on your past achievements. Only look forward.

 

If we look at personality types, a Hamilton actor is probably an extrovert who is used to being onstage and likes the attention and will be outgoing and appear warm and personable and looking for applause from the audience. An artist is often going to be an introvert and work alone and not used to interacting or working with others.

 

 

 

 

[kav]

Did Ditko create anything that was a success after Spider Man and Dr Strange? No.

I think that's what he's mainly peeved about.