Silver Age Hierarchy: Poll 1: The Top 30

[drbanner]

The conclusion to draw from this poll is that there are more Marvel collectors than DC. Having had the experience of collecting both Marvel's and DC's SA keys, I can say that the latter present a different challenge. Many DC SA books are recreations as drbanner correctly pointed out. However, original creations like those that appear in Adventure Comics 247, Action Comics 252, Batman 121, Our Army at War 83, Showcase 6, and Showcase 17 make the DC SA key portfolio diverse. Another challenge has to do with the difficulty of finding nice presenting mid grade DC keys with ow or better pq. A nice presenting6.0 Showcase 22 with sold for approximately $8,000 in a recent Heritage Auction. Look at what the 6.0 Adventure Comics 247 sold for last night on the C-Link auction. Compare that to the sales of some Marvel SA keys in the same grade. The scarcity of nice presenting DC keys makes the challenge greater and requires patience. Another factor to consider is how well DC SA keys are doing without the assistance of superficial movie hype. The 4.0 OAAW is over $1700 right now on the current C-Link auction. Not bad for a non-superhero book. It's already passed the 6.5 Green Lantern 1 and 4.5 Flash 105 that sold last night. Does anyone think a 4.0 Sgt. Fury 1 or even Daredevil 1 in 4.0 will sell for that much right now?

 

The Marvel and DC SA keys are incredible and like the great summits of the Himalayas, present different challenges for any serious climber. The best climbers seek each challenge for what it presents. Most climb Everest but others will tell you about the great difficulty in climbing K2 and the lesser mountains. The great thing about collecting each of these books is how some can present a challenge- finding a book that meets your criteria. Getting an AF 15 was my Everest but finding a beautiful Showcase 22 with great pq was the K2 for me.

 

Best,

John

No doubt scarcity drives the prices on the DC's, because the demand for the Marvels as a key/grail/favorite book is obviously overwhelming as reflected in the poll. DC collectors are hard-core, Marvel collectors are ubiquitous.

[ChasingKingKirby]

OAAW 83 will not likely break the top 30 since I dare say that some will push the book(s) they own (and OAAW 83 is probably not one of them) - especially the flippers and speculators that hang around these boards.

 

I love OAAW 83, tough book, etc., but how much of a key is it really? A character that basically has faded away as war comics and WWII have lost popularity.

 

Is that really true though? I'm sort of in the antiques world and one of the hottest niches going right now is WWII militaria. Badges, weapons, propaganda etc. The only draw back to OOAW 83 is that it came out long after the end of the war, so it really isn't a propaganda book. Still, I see it as a cross-collectible. I don't collect war comics and I want a copy.

[bronze johnny]

The conclusion to draw from this poll is that there are more Marvel collectors than DC. Having had the experience of collecting both Marvel's and DC's SA keys, I can say that the latter present a different challenge. Many DC SA books are recreations as drbanner correctly pointed out. However, original creations like those that appear in Adventure Comics 247, Action Comics 252, Batman 121, Our Army at War 83, Showcase 6, and Showcase 17 make the DC SA key portfolio diverse. Another challenge has to do with the difficulty of finding nice presenting mid grade DC keys with ow or better pq. A nice presenting6.0 Showcase 22 with sold for approximately $8,000 in a recent Heritage Auction. Look at what the 6.0 Adventure Comics 247 sold for last night on the C-Link auction. Compare that to the sales of some Marvel SA keys in the same grade. The scarcity of nice presenting DC keys makes the challenge greater and requires patience. Another factor to consider is how well DC SA keys are doing without the assistance of superficial movie hype. The 4.0 OAAW is over $1700 right now on the current C-Link auction. Not bad for a non-superhero book. It's already passed the 6.5 Green Lantern 1 and 4.5 Flash 105 that sold last night. Does anyone think a 4.0 Sgt. Fury 1 or even Daredevil 1 in 4.0 will sell for that much right now?

 

The Marvel and DC SA keys are incredible and like the great summits of the Himalayas, present different challenges for any serious climber. The best climbers seek each challenge for what it presents. Most climb Everest but others will tell you about the great difficulty in climbing K2 and the lesser mountains. The great thing about collecting each of these books is how some can present a challenge- finding a book that meets your criteria. Getting an AF 15 was my Everest but finding a beautiful Showcase 22 with great pq was the K2 for me.

 

Best,

John

No doubt scarcity drives the prices on the DC's, because the demand for the Marvels as a key/grail/favorite book is obviously overwhelming as reflected in the poll. DC collectors are hard-core, Marvel collectors are ubiquitous.

 

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

 

Kudos to the OP for putting this poll together and for the work that went into it.

[drbanner]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

[1koko]

 

POLL 2 HAS BEGUN.

 

POLL 2 ENDS MAY 28TH SO PLEASE VOTE ACCORDINGLY

[Chillax23]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

 

I am not so sure about that - I would think a top 10 list would easily include 3 DC books (SC4, BB28 and SC22) with the top 5 likely including 2 DC books (SC4 and BB28). There are also a lot of great DC books primed for the spotlight/ascension - AC252, Flash 123, Batman 121, GL1, JLA1, Flash 105 etc.

 

But I will fully admit that Marvel has more key books in the Silver Age and the split will likely always be in Marvel's favour - but a lot of the books that have popped only popped due to Movie/TV hype (i.e., FF45, FF52, ST110, DD1 etc. hell even TOS39 to some extent)

[drbanner]

I am not so sure about that - I would think a top 10 list would easily include 3 DC books (SC4, BB28 and SC22) with the top 5 likely including 2 DC books (SC4 and BB28). There are also a lot of great DC books primed for the spotlight/ascension - AC252, Flash 123, Batman 121, GL1, JLA1, Flash 105 etc.

 

But I will fully admit that Marvel has more key books in the Silver Age and the split will likely always be in Marvel's favour - but a lot of the books that have popped only popped due to Movie/TV hype (i.e., FF45, FF52, ST110, DD1 etc. hell even TOS39 to some extent)

Sure, but you have to admit that the hottest DC books right now are also movie/TV-show hyped (AC 252, B&B28, Flash books). The DC Movies have been fairly mediocre compared to Marvel, but the DC TV shows are pretty popular and in total the media exposure/hype is driving DCs just as much as the Marvels.

[Sqeggs]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

 

Longer ago than that. Modern collecting began in the 1960s largely because of Marvel. Without the introduction of FF and ASM, I doubt collecting would ever have gotten off the ground to the extent that it did. These boards might well not even exist. The early fanzines were very Marvel-centric.

 

People read and, to some extent, collected DC, but it was the Marvel runs that everyone wanted to complete. FF 1 and AF 15 ruled the roost and no DC book -- including Showcase 4 -- even came close.

[Sqeggs]

And with respect to Avengers 4, that was a desirable and sought after book from the day it was published. Movie hype explains some of its current value, but that was hardly an obscure book that went undiscovered until the movies were released.

[Chillax23]

I am not so sure about that - I would think a top 10 list would easily include 3 DC books (SC4, BB28 and SC22) with the top 5 likely including 2 DC books (SC4 and BB28). There are also a lot of great DC books primed for the spotlight/ascension - AC252, Flash 123, Batman 121, GL1, JLA1, Flash 105 etc.

 

But I will fully admit that Marvel has more key books in the Silver Age and the split will likely always be in Marvel's favour - but a lot of the books that have popped only popped due to Movie/TV hype (i.e., FF45, FF52, ST110, DD1 etc. hell even TOS39 to some extent)

Sure, but you have to admit that the hottest DC books right now are also movie/TV-show hyped (AC 252, B&B28, Flash books). The DC Movies have been fairly mediocre compared to Marvel, but the DC TV shows are pretty popular and in total the media exposure/hype is driving DCs just as much as the Marvels.

 

Yes I can concede that the DC books are also being inflated by Movies/TV - but my counter point would be that while DC properties have had some exposure from Movies/TV, they have not nearly had the exposure that Marvel properties have had. So if/when DC gets the movie machine going full tilt (I actually liked BvS) I think there will be a corresponding pop in DC silver age books which will be amplified by the relative scarcity of the DC books (compared to their Marvel brethren). Hence why I think that the "dominance" will not be permanent.

[trmoore54]

Hard to fathom how FF52 can outvote FF48??

[zosocane]

Hard to fathom how FF52 can outvote FF48??

 

Movie prospecting. You couldn't give FF52 away 3 years ago.

[grebal]

I came back after being away for around 8 years to sell my duplicate FF52 (that and lot of 22 TPBs that covered the civil war storyline). Maybe it'll keep going up, but I'm glad with the result, as you said, it was possibly a 15 dollar books in '08 (raw VG/VG-).

I even toyed with idea of selling my much nicer 7.0-7.5, what with the spike in interest.

[bronze johnny]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

 

There's no question that Marvel keys make up most of Overstreet's top 20 SA books and have been maintaining this status since I can remember. I'm one of those ubiquitous Marvel guys that takes joy in knowing this fact. However, seeing wonderful books like Daredevil 1 and Avengers 4 poll higher than scarcer DC keys like Showcase 22 raises a question as to whether some books are being pushed by speculators and flippers.

[thunsicker]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

 

There's no question that Marvel keys make up most of Overstreet's top 20 SA books and have been maintaining this status since I can remember. I'm one of those ubiquitous Marvel guys that takes joy in knowing this fact. However, seeing wonderful books like Daredevil 1 and Avengers 4 poll higher than scarcer DC keys like Showcase 22 raises a question as to whether some books are being pushed by speculators and flippers.

 

It's important to remember this is supposed to be a list of the most important, not most valuable books. Scarcity shouldn't play into what's important, instead the fact that more Marvel Keys were kept all these years (remember DC out published Marvel at the time) should be a point that the Marvel Keys are more important.

 

That said, as I mentioned before, I think the DC keys are being undervalued on importance as well.

[drbanner]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

There's no question that Marvel keys make up most of Overstreet's top 20 SA books and have been maintaining this status since I can remember. I'm one of those ubiquitous Marvel guys that takes joy in knowing this fact. However, seeing wonderful books like Daredevil 1 and Avengers 4 poll higher than scarcer DC keys like Showcase 22 raises a question as to whether some books are being pushed by speculators and flippers.

The ability to finally bring the Marvel and DC universes to life on the big-screen has fueled the overall market for several years now, but I don't know why you keep calling out speculators and flippers as only influencing the demand for the Marvels? Those same movie-fueled speculators and flippers are pushing books like Showcase 22 and B&B 28 just as much - just look what happened to the price of Showcase 22 in 2009/2010 when the Green Lantern movie was announced and Ryan Reynolds named the lead.

 

[bronze johnny]

Agreed but I'm not so sure popularity translates into demand as much as the fact there are speculators around here who have purchased copies of the Marvel keys to capitalize on the movie hype and are pushing them.

The Marvel Keys have been atop the "top" lists since at least 1980, when OS listed Marvels as 8 of the top 10 SA books. DC's included in the top 20 at that time include Showcase 1, 4, 8, 13, 14, Flash 105, Jimmy Olsen 1, Brave and the Bold 1, and Detective 225. These are all great collectibles for the discerning collector, but only 3 of them appear in today's top 30 list. The Marvel Silver Age Keys have dominated the Silver Age market for at least 25 years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, movies or no.

There's no question that Marvel keys make up most of Overstreet's top 20 SA books and have been maintaining this status since I can remember. I'm one of those ubiquitous Marvel guys that takes joy in knowing this fact. However, seeing wonderful books like Daredevil 1 and Avengers 4 poll higher than scarcer DC keys like Showcase 22 raises a question as to whether some books are being pushed by speculators and flippers.

The ability to finally bring the Marvel and DC universes to life on the big-screen has fueled the overall market for several years now, but I don't know why you keep calling out speculators and flippers as only influencing the demand for the Marvels? Those same movie-fueled speculators and flippers are pushing books like Showcase 22 and B&B 28 just as much - just look what happened to the price of Showcase 22 in 2009/2010 when the Green Lantern movie was announced and Ryan Reynolds named the lead.

Let me place great emphasis on the point that speculators and flippers are not the "only" influences on demand for Marvel keys - I'm quoting your use of the word "only." I never used or implied exclusivity in my argument. Please make sure you underline my statement to include the word "whether." Selectively omitting the word changes my statement from a question to a conclusion. Fortunately, there are other factors contributing to demand- I raised the question about what role speculators and flippers have - greater than usual when keys are more accessible?

[drbanner]

One only has to wade through the 1st ten or so pages of the "Showcase 22 Club" thread to see the impact that movie hype and speculator/flippers had on the price of that book. Movie hype was mentioned right off the bat in the thread, and by the time the movie actually came out 2 years later, prices had doubled or tripled. Gator alone must've flipped at least 2 dozen copies just in the 1st year of the thread!