American Association of Comicbook Collectors

[esquirecomics]

AACC Web Link

 

Is this organization active at all? Ever do anything besides some apparently great dinners and undertake some worthwhile attempts at creating some oversight policies, particularly regarding ethics?

[shadroch]

I'm not familar with them.

As the website doesn't appear to have been updated in well over a year,I'd guess they are defunct.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm not familar with them.

As the website doesn't appear to have been updated in well over a year,I'd guess they are defunct.

 

Might have had something to do with this...

 

A member of the AACC shall not undertake to provide services concerning an evaluation or grading of a comic, art work, or collectible where they have a present or contemplated interest or an appearance of conflict unless such interest is specifically disclosed to all affected parties.

 

 

[PedigreeMan]

AACC Web Link

 

Is this organization active at all? Ever do anything besides some apparently great dinners and undertake some worthwhile attempts at creating some oversight policies, particularly regarding ethics?

 

 

I'd like to have an answer to this, as well....

[Darthdiesel]

Put me down for interested in new membership

[nearmint]

They always have a booth at the SD Con, but it's just a couple of guys chatting behind a table. I've never been motivated to walk over and say hello.

[esquirecomics]

It does look like this organization technically still exists though pretty much has been relegated to dinners at SD (which I'm told have always been fun).

 

I am seriously contemplating trying to create some sort of organization, particularly with respect to dealers, and especially with the hope of creating ethical guidelines along the lines seen by the American Bar Association and American Medical Association. Now, please don't jump on me by saying I am naive!!! I am fully aware that just because guidelines exist doesn't mean they are not broken every single day of the year, especially in the legal field. Still, it says something that they exist at all. More to follow on these issues.

 

I did receive an e-mail from a former principal of the AACC and this person related the following (which I post essentially verbatim). I do not vouch for the accuracy of the statements, nor do I necessarily support any conclusions reached. I post them merely for discussion purposes.

 

I was told by this person that the AACC did the following over the years:

 

"1. spent $3K analyzing industry mylar and bagged products for their archival properties.Found that the CGC inner holder is NOT made of mylar (the only approved archival product) It is made of BARAX..the same plastic used for soda bottles..which is non-air permeable.. which means that the acids given off by the paper and ink are literally eating away the enclosed comic! The results were published in CBG and Comic Book Marketplace. Apparently no one cared that the CGC inner sleeve is [word deleted]!"

 

[ESQUIRE NOTE: This was the first I heard of this. No doubt it has been discussed on the boards. Can anyone summarize whether any conclusions were reached?]

 

"2. About 5 years ago circulated a petition at the San Diego show opposing CGC's planned "service" of un-restoring color touched and restored books. Signed by every big-wig and dealer in the industry. CGC decided to drop the idea."

 

[ESQUIRE NOTE: I presume this was discussed on the board also. Anyone have a copy of the text of this petition? What was the basis of the concern?]

 

"3. Dinners honoring the great GA and SA artists, writers and editors."

 

[FFB]

It does look like this organization technically still exists though pretty much has been relegated to dinners at SD (which I'm told have always been fun).

 

I am seriously contemplating trying to create some sort of organization, particularly with respect to dealers, and especially with the hope of creating ethical guidelines along the lines seen by the American Bar Association and American Medical Association. Now, please don't jump on me by saying I am naive!!! I am fully aware that just because guidelines exist doesn't mean they are not broken every single day of the year, especially in the legal field. Still, it says something that they exist at all. More to follow on these issues.

 

I did receive an e-mail from a former principal of the AACC and this person related the following (which I post essentially verbatim). I do not vouch for the accuracy of the statements, nor do I necessarily support any conclusions reached. I post them merely for discussion purposes.

 

I was told by this person that the AACC did the following over the years:

 

"1. spent $3K analyzing industry mylar and bagged products for their archival properties.Found that the CGC inner holder is NOT made of mylar (the only approved archival product) It is made of BARAX..the same plastic used for soda bottles..which is non-air permeable.. which means that the acids given off by the paper and ink are literally eating away the enclosed comic! The results were published in CBG and Comic Book Marketplace. Apparently no one cared that the CGC inner sleeve is [word deleted]!"

 

[ESQUIRE NOTE: This was the first I heard of this. No doubt it has been discussed on the boards. Can anyone summarize whether any conclusions were reached?]

 

"2. About 5 years ago circulated a petition at the San Diego show opposing CGC's planned "service" of un-restoring color touched and restored books. Signed by every big-wig and dealer in the industry. CGC decided to drop the idea."

 

[ESQUIRE NOTE: I presume this was discussed on the board also. Anyone have a copy of the text of this petition? What was the basis of the concern?]

 

"3. Dinners honoring the great GA and SA artists, writers and editors."

 

 

So as I understand it, they spent the last five years dedicating almost all of their energies to discrediting CGC, except for an annual dinner? No wonder they're a virtual non-entity now.

 

The study that the AACC mentions was conducted by Tracey Heft. He concluded (as I recall reading) that Barex inhibited UV radiation, and for that reason alone, the material *might* not meet the Library of Congress' standards for an archival storage medium for paper, but that further testing was needed. Air permeability has nothing to do with it and his statement that "air permeability" was the problem tells me that he doesn't even understand the conclusions Tracey reached in his "$3,000" study.

 

There is an old post here somewhere with Tracey's study. If you search, you can find it.

[esquirecomics]

I'll touch base with Tracey and see if he can make available the study (unless it is already posted on the boards somewhere else).

[Ze-man]

I thought you just had a baby... how on earth can your Forum plate be this full already?

 

Between your new site, this thread.. the Susan C. statement..man are you ever a busy boy.

 

Then again.. I do remember when you bring home a little one from the hospital, you dont sleep for awhile.. so post away Mark..(between Pamper pit stops that is)

 

 

Ze-

[FFB]

One more point -- he is also wrong about Mylar being "the only approved archival product," at least insofar as he is referring to the Library of Congress' findings. Here is what the Library of Congress told me when I asked them a related question last year:

 

Question:

Question History:

Patron: Is it safe to store a comic book in a bag or container made of polyvinyl chloride (PVC)?

Librarian 1: April 16, 2004

 

Dear Scott,

 

We do not recommend the use of PVC plastics for the storage of comic books or any other historic paper based material. Plastic enclosures are preferred for frequently used collections because they protect them from fingerprints and provide physical support. Plastic enclosures should be made from plastics such as polyester, polyethylene, polypropylene, spun-bonded polyolefins, or polystyrene. These plastics are recommended by ISO standards because they are typically inert, unplasticized, and have good chemical stability. Since many paper materials can adhere to smooth surfaces at high humidities, use of plastic of any type should be avoided if prolonged storage at relative humidities above 80% is likely. Avoid all plastics that have fillers, coatings, or UV absorbers. Avoid the use of polyester, polyethylene, and polypropylene that has a hazy film on the surface, which indicates that the plastic film is coated or is heavily plasticized. Avoid using adhesives or fasteners that may cause chemical or physical damage, such as rubber cement, pressure-sensitive tape, paper clips, or rubber bands.

 

 

Carrie Beyer

Preservation Directorate

library of congress

Washington, D.C. 20540-4560

cbey@loc.gov

[esquirecomics]

I thought you just had a baby... how on earth can your Forum plate be this full already?

 

Between your new site, this thread.. the Susan C. statement..man are you ever a busy boy.

 

Then again.. I do remember when you bring home a little one from the hospital, you dont sleep for awhile.. so post away Mark..(between Pamper pit stops that is)

 

The 2 year old is my primary responsibility right now, and she is sleeping!

 

And we thankfully have a baby nurse for 3 weeks to help my wife!! So I am trolling for interesting threads.

[Ze-man]

You have a nurse that is still a baby?

Is that all your Medical Coverage would cover?

 

Dam HOM's

 

Baby Nurse's Indeed

 

Ze-

[FFB]

I'll touch base with Tracey and see if he can make available the study (unless it is already posted on the boards somewhere else).

 

Here it is.

[esquirecomics]

Perfect, thanks. An interesting discussion. It never went anywhere in 2003, but perhaps given the increased size of the forumites, somebody can contribute something now.

[Ze-man]

All nine samples contained ultraviolet inhibitors? Was not aware of that.

 

And if the Library of Congress deems ultraviolet inhibitor not worthy of the items in need of archival storage.

Why then was every comic related material devoloped with UV inhibitors in them?

 

Or is the LOC's standards just not in touch with what is accepted as normal in the rest of the collecting community?

 

 

Great read Scott.. nice find. Was surprised to see it only had 13 or so posts in the thread.

 

Ze-

[FFB]

All nine samples contained ultraviolet inhibitors? Was not aware of that.

 

And if the Library of Congress deems ultraviolet inhibitor not worthy of the items in need of archival storage.

Why then was every comic related material devoloped with UV inhibitors in them?

 

Or is the LOC's standards just not in touch with what is accepted as normal in the rest of the collecting community?

 

 

Great read Scott.. nice find. Was surprised to see it only had 13 or so posts in the thread.

 

Ze-

 

The way I read it, all nine samples (including the pure Mylar samples) cast a greenish glow when light was passed through them. That does not necessarily mean that an extraneous UV inhibitor was added to the material. It might just mean that the material itself has some natural UV inhibiting properties. Pure glass, for example, will block some UV rays. As Tracey said, further testing would need to be done in order to determine whether a "harmful" UV absorber had been added to each of the films tested.

 

It is worth noting that Barex is not listed among the plastics that the Library of Congress approves for use in archival storage of paper. That does not mean, however, that Barex is not an archival quality storage material. It simply means that the LOC has not tested it (which Carrie Beyer of the LOC indicated to me in another email last year). The LOC does not test every plastic in the world for archival storage capabilities. As they do test more and more plastics, they add them to their approved materials list, like they did with several new plastics last October.

[esquirecomics]

I the original thread to see if we can get the discuss rolling again.

[FFB]

I the original thread to see if we can get the discuss rolling again.

 

I think that the only way to really get anywhere with the discussion is to commission/fund another study that is more in depth and that has more rigorous testing of the materials to determine whether each has any harmful additives and/or whether each material is an "inert" plastic. Otherwise we wind up with a circle jerk of misinformation and confused people coming up with half-baked theories.

[FFB]

"1. spent $3K analyzing industry mylar and bagged products for their archival properties.Found that the CGC inner holder is NOT made of mylar (the only approved archival product) It is made of BARAX..the same plastic used for soda bottles..which is non-air permeable.. which means that the acids given off by the paper and ink are literally eating away the enclosed comic! The results were published in CBG and Comic Book Marketplace. Apparently no one cared that the CGC inner sleeve is [word deleted]!"

 

One more example where this assclown has it wrong.

 

Soda bottles are made of polyethelene terephthalate -- otherwise known as MYLAR.

=============================================

To understand plastic lumber better, it is essential to decipher the language of plastics. Common plastics found in packaging and industrial waste that are used to make lumber include:

 

Polyethylene: Also referred to as PE, it comes in the form of high density PE (HDPE) or low density PE (LDPE). Examples of HDPE are mike and detergent bottles: LDPE may be found in the form of bags, film or wrapping.

 

Polyethylene Terephthalate: Or PET is commonly found in one and two liter soda bottles and many other household containers.

 

Polypropylene: Also referred to as PP, is often found in bottles that have special filling requirements, such as ketchup containers. or plastic parts that require considerable memory.

 

Polyvinylchloride: Also known as PVC, Examples of PVC packing include cooking oil bottles, some mineral water bottles and blister packs.

 

Polystyrene: Also PS, is commonly found in expanded foam coffee cups and serviceware such as knives, forks, and spoons.

=============================================

 

Link for the plastically inquisitive