American Association of Comicbook Collectors

[uclapeterg]

Perhaps we should post a question in the "Ask CGC" board about the internal holder.

 

BP Chemicals, the manufacturer of Barex, touts its "chemical resistance" and the fact that it is chemically inert.

 

Some of the technical specs you can view from that site says that Barex will not off gas any hazardous gases unless exposed to temperatures in excess of 500 degrees F.

 

So I guess seeing my CGC comics melt in an oven is out, right? DARN!

[FFB]

My reading of Heft's article is that the test was to determine UV filters in the plastics. All were found to have them according to the test - of course the methodolgy was not published. So the Barex of a CGC holder tested as having UV inhibiting processes in the plastic and because the LOC does not recommend UV inhibiting plastics to conserve paper, they extrapolate that the CGC holder is made of material dangerous to paper. Thats a tad misleading. It looks like all of the materials they submitted had exactly the same test results, so what can they really say about the test - a better statement would be that all plastics they subbed demonstrated the ability to inhibit UV rays and any plastic that exhibits this is not deemed appropriate for paper storage by the LOC.

 

You can say that the LOC does not consider Barex to be an Archivaly safe plastic for the storage of paper, but not based on these test results. Further it is not clear whether they have tested Barex - as Scott is eluding too this would be vital information to determining LOC's stance on the plastic used in the CGC holder's inner well.

 

Hey Jason,

 

As I mentioned before, I specifically asked Carrie Beyer of the LOC whether they had tested Barex and she said no. It isn't that " the LOC does not consider Barex to be an Archivally safe plastic for the storage of paper" -- it's that they haven't tested it and they don't recommend what they haven't tested.

 

As for the UV issue, many, many plastics inhibit UV radiation to some extent (including Mylar -- check the blue front sheet in your E. Gerber Archives packaging, which touts its UV blocking properties). As I understand the LOC's stance on the issue, the danger comes when additional UV absorbers are ADDED to a plastic (via coating or impregnation) in order to greatly increase UV blockage. It is these additives that can leech out of the plastic and onto the stored item.

 

As for the methodology for testing UV, Tracey did state how they did it -- they projected light through the plastic and checked to see if the filtered light made a green or blue-green image on a piece of white paper placed behind the plastic. That testing methodology says nothing about whether UV is being blocked by the inherent nature of the chemically inert plastic, or whether something was added to the "raw" plastic to increase UV blockage.

[Ze-man]

of course the methodolgy was not published.

 

 

Jbud.. below is FFB's response to my earlier question..they passed light through the samples? .. and noted the way the light was diffused on a white backgroud?..

I think that was their testing method.. or am I reading it wrong.?

 

The way I read it, all nine samples (including the pure Mylar samples) cast a greenish glow when light was passed through them. That does not necessarily mean that an extraneous UV inhibitor was added to the material. It might just mean that the material itself has some natural UV inhibiting properties. Pure glass, for example, will block some UV rays. As Tracey said, further testing would need to be done in order to determine whether a "harmful" UV absorber had been added to each of the films tested.

 

 

Ze-

[Ze-man]

 

Per usual.. Scott was up to the task.. and I was 2 beats to slow..

 

Ze-

[jbud73]

My reading of Heft's article is that the test was to determine UV filters in the plastics. All were found to have them according to the test - of course the methodolgy was not published. So the Barex of a CGC holder tested as having UV inhibiting processes in the plastic and because the LOC does not recommend UV inhibiting plastics to conserve paper, they extrapolate that the CGC holder is made of material dangerous to paper. Thats a tad misleading. It looks like all of the materials they submitted had exactly the same test results, so what can they really say about the test - a better statement would be that all plastics they subbed demonstrated the ability to inhibit UV rays and any plastic that exhibits this is not deemed appropriate for paper storage by the LOC.

 

You can say that the LOC does not consider Barex to be an Archivaly safe plastic for the storage of paper, but not based on these test results. Further it is not clear whether they have tested Barex - as Scott is eluding too this would be vital information to determining LOC's stance on the plastic used in the CGC holder's inner well.

 

Hey Jason,

 

As I mentioned before, I specifically asked Carrie Beyer of the LOC whether they had tested Barex and she said no. It isn't that " the LOC does not consider Barex to be an Archivaly safe plastic for the storage of paper" -- it's that they haven't tested it and they don't recommend what they haven't tested.

 

As for the UV issue, many, many plastics inhibit UV radiation to some extent (including Mylar -- check the blue front sheet in your E. Gerber Archives packaging, which touts its UV blocking properties). As I understand the LOC's stance on the issue, the danger comes when additional UV absorbers are ADDED to a plastic (via coating or impregnation) in order to greatly increase UV blockage. It is these additives that can leech out of the plastic and onto the stored item.

 

As for the methodology for testing UV, Tracey did state how they did it -- they projected light through the plastic and checked to see if the filtered light made a green or blue-green image on a piece of white paper placed behind the plastic. That testing methodology says nothing about whether UV is being blocked by the inherent nature of the chemically inert plastic, or whether something was added to the "raw" plastic to increase UV blockage.

 

Ya Scott I got it and that's why I said that extrapolating the LOC's position is misleading because they don't have one except to not recommend something they haven't tested which makes perfect sense. About the only thing that does right now .

[adamstrange]

The AACC has always been a fairly loose, casual organization. The membership wasn't large and, given their geographic dispersal, that made a bit hard to do much. Like many small non-profit organizations, they have only a few people who, despite their day jobs, actually work quite hard. They are always looking for volunteers and would welcome people who want to do something and who are also willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

 

They do have really cool dinners in San Diego, but they also have contributed quite a bit to sponsor comic artists and writers to come San Diego. This is done primarily through the contributions of members and the charity auctions that they hold.

 

Jon Berk was president for a number of years. I'll PM and ask if he'll post.

[Darthdiesel]

Relax Mark you just picked up your very own Troll, it jsut happens after a while .

 

Darth, does having my own troll count as one of my flock of sheep or village insufficiently_thoughtful_person, or are trolls in a different category?

 

Definitely not part of the flock, Marcus Aurelius....Press on, good Consul/counsel!

[jbcomicbox]

The AACC has always been a fairly loose, casual organization. The membership wasn't large and, given their geographic dispersal, that made a bit hard to do much. Like many small non-profit organizations, they have only a few people who, despite their day jobs, actually work quite hard. They are always looking for volunteers and would welcome people who want to do something and who are also willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

 

They do have really cool dinners in San Diego, but they also have contributed quite a bit to sponsor comic artists and writers to come San Diego. This is done primarily through the contributions of members and the charity auctions that they hold.

 

Jon Berk was president for a number of years. I'll PM and ask if he'll post.

 

Adam has it exactly right.....We were a small group trying to do 'good deeds' in the hobby. Some would 'complain' we did not do more....yet would not volunteer to help.

 

We had a newsletter going at one point. The internet certainly has made things easier, but we were without such tools early on.....We provided free grading services by committee for Sothebys' and Christies...we were all guys with full time jobs just trying to do something good for the hobby......

 

We took up issues effecting the hobby

 

 

.....and while some may denigrate the dinners, they were the most wonderful events i ever attended.....No commercials....no grandstanding.....but dinners to honor those creators, writers and artists who produced the product that got us all into this four color wonderworld......Eisner, Flessel, Ayers, Robinson, the great EC reunion gathering all the creators together and many other honorees...many great suppers and memories.....

 

Reading some of the prior posts seem to be smug in our limited activity....sorry we did not measure up....but we tried.....and frankly, with our limited resources and numbers, I am very proud of what we accomplished.....Thank you Gary, Mike, Dave, Bruce and Richie.....By the way my name is Jon Berk......I do not need to hide behind anonymous handles.....If I sound a bit irritated, frankly I am.....It is easy to go negative and criticize.........When I helped the AACC or wrote for CBM or post here, it is for one reason.....'cause I love comics and their rich history.....anything I can do to educate, share or promote the hobby I will do......

[FFB]

The AACC has always been a fairly loose, casual organization. The membership wasn't large and, given their geographic dispersal, that made a bit hard to do much. Like many small non-profit organizations, they have only a few people who, despite their day jobs, actually work quite hard. They are always looking for volunteers and would welcome people who want to do something and who are also willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

 

They do have really cool dinners in San Diego, but they also have contributed quite a bit to sponsor comic artists and writers to come San Diego. This is done primarily through the contributions of members and the charity auctions that they hold.

 

Jon Berk was president for a number of years. I'll PM and ask if he'll post.

 

Adam has it exactly right.....We were a small group trying to do 'good deeds' in the hobby. Some would 'complain' we did not do more....yet would not volunteer to help.

 

We had a newsletter going at one point. The internet certainly has made things easier, but we were without such tools early on.....We provided free grading services by committee for Sothebys' and Christies...we were all guys with full time jobs just trying to do something good for the hobby......

 

We took up issues effecting the hobby

 

 

.....and while some may denigrate the dinners, they were the most wonderful events i ever attended.....No commercials....no grandstanding.....but dinners to honor those creators, writers and artists who produced the product that got us all into this four color wonderworld......Eisner, Flessel, Ayers, Robinson, the great EC reunion gathering all the creators together and many other honorees...many great suppers and memories.....

 

Reading some of the prior posts seem to be smug in our limited activity....sorry we did not measure up....but we tried.....and frankly, with our limited resources and numbers, I am very proud of what we accomplished.....Thank you Gary, Mike, Dave, Bruce and Richie.....By the way my name is Jon Berk......I do not need to hide behind anonymous handles.....If I sound a bit irritated, frankly I am.....It is easy to go negative and criticize.........When I helped the AACC or wrote for CBM or post here, it is for one reason.....'cause I love comics and their rich history.....anything I can do to educate, share or promote the hobby I will do......

 

No one is denigrating the dinners or the organization and certainly not the majority of people who were involved in it. My irritation in this thread is with the person ("one of the former principals of AACC") who wrote the email that Mark Zaid posted. That guy is clearly full of you know what and took a couple of cheap shots at CGC using misinformation. His email to Mark to explain what the group had been doing the last couple of years made it sound like the sum total of the group's activities were to (1) try to discredit CGC and (2) hold some dinners. If anyone made the group "look bad," it was him. I just called him on his BS.

[esquirecomics]

Here, here Jon. Bravo to you and the others for all that they have done.

 

That was the whole purpose of this thread in the first place. To see what was left of the AACC and either potentially revive it, or create something in its place that we can all be proud of.

[FFB]

As for the UV issue, many, many plastics inhibit UV radiation to some extent (including Mylar -- check the blue front sheet in your E. Gerber Archives packaging, which touts its UV blocking properties). As I understand the LOC's stance on the issue, the danger comes when additional UV absorbers are ADDED to a plastic (via coating or impregnation) in order to greatly increase UV blockage. It is these additives that can leech out of the plastic and onto the stored item.

 

A little follow up here:

 

I checked the Gerber website to see about the UV blocking, and it appears that Gerber Mylar sleeves actually ARE impregnated with a UV blocking substance that blocks 99% of UV radiation. So going by the LOC's general statement that UV inhibiting additives are bad, the Gerber Mylar sleeves would appear not to meet that requirement.

 

On the other hand, Gerber states that its Mylar sleeves are a special kind of impregnated Mylar (called "MylarS") that is "accepted as photo safe to direct contact and is used internationally in archives and museums." Link

 

So maybe there are SOME UV inhibitors that are safe to use?

[jbcomicbox]

The AACC has always been a fairly loose, casual organization. The membership wasn't large and, given their geographic dispersal, that made a bit hard to do much. Like many small non-profit organizations, they have only a few people who, despite their day jobs, actually work quite hard. They are always looking for volunteers and would welcome people who want to do something and who are also willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

 

They do have really cool dinners in San Diego, but they also have contributed quite a bit to sponsor comic artists and writers to come San Diego. This is done primarily through the contributions of members and the charity auctions that they hold.

 

Jon Berk was president for a number of years. I'll PM and ask if he'll post.

 

Adam has it exactly right.....We were a small group trying to do 'good deeds' in the hobby. Some would 'complain' we did not do more....yet would not volunteer to help.

 

We had a newsletter going at one point. The internet certainly has made things easier, but we were without such tools early on.....We provided free grading services by committee for Sothebys' and Christies...we were all guys with full time jobs just trying to do something good for the hobby......

 

We took up issues effecting the hobby

 

 

.....and while some may denigrate the dinners, they were the most wonderful events i ever attended.....No commercials....no grandstanding.....but dinners to honor those creators, writers and artists who produced the product that got us all into this four color wonderworld......Eisner, Flessel, Ayers, Robinson, the great EC reunion gathering all the creators together and many other honorees...many great suppers and memories.....

 

Reading some of the prior posts seem to be smug in our limited activity....sorry we did not measure up....but we tried.....and frankly, with our limited resources and numbers, I am very proud of what we accomplished.....Thank you Gary, Mike, Dave, Bruce and Richie.....By the way my name is Jon Berk......I do not need to hide behind anonymous handles.....If I sound a bit irritated, frankly I am.....It is easy to go negative and criticize.........When I helped the AACC or wrote for CBM or post here, it is for one reason.....'cause I love comics and their rich history.....anything I can do to educate, share or promote the hobby I will do......

 

No one is denigrating the dinners or the organization and certainly not the majority of people who were involved in it. My irritation in this thread is with the person ("one of the former principals of AACC") who wrote the email that Mark Zaid posted. That guy is clearly full of you know what and took a couple of cheap shots at CGC using misinformation. His email to Mark to explain what the group had been doing the last couple of years made it sound like the sum total of the group's activities were to (1) try to discredit CGC and (2) hold some dinners. If anyone made the group "look bad," it was him. I just called him on his BS.

 

your prerogative, i suppose. But i not going to get into a tit for tat discussion with you....it grows old too quickly.....going back to the golden age boards.....

[Ze-man]

Have we asked Russ at Comic supply about all of this UV stuff? PET vs Barex etc..

He at least first hand has done some research, to actually set in motion creating his own Mylar product line. I wonder what he found out that made him base his decision on which way he went with his line.

UV or not?..Pro gas fume friendly, or Pro Moisture resistant... what is readily available , compared to the cost of creating your own product.

 

I remember speaking with him at length about his line of Mylar products that he was coming out with. Sadly the thing I remember most was how he said he was hung up trying to translate the foreign manufacturing reps that did not exactly speaka my language.(sorry...Men at Work reference)

 

 

Ze-

[esquirecomics]

Please excuse the cross-post. The AACC is alive and soon to be well again!!!!!! Come and hear all about it.

 

Title: Promoting A Safe And Enjoyable Environment For Collecting and Investing in Comic Books

 

Description: This open meeting/panel presentation will focus on new and forthcoming developments in the comic book community. Representatives from the newly created Network of Disclosure (http://www.networkofdisclosure.com/), the American Association of Comicbook Collectors (http://www.aacc-info.com/) and others will discuss their respective organizations and ideas for the future of the hobby. All collectors, dealers and prospective new members are welcome to attend. Presenters include David Armstrong, AACC, Brent Moeshlin, NOD, Mark S. Zaid, NOD, and others to be named.

 

Time: 3:30 pm - 5:00 pm

 

Date: Saturday, July 22, 2006

 

Location: San Diego ComicCon, room TBA

 

Feel free to contact me on my cell at 202-498-0011 during the Convention if you can't find the room details, which will be listed in the SD program and on the official website.

 

Hope everyone can attend!