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Staple impressions and grade

Started by JDH-84,

107 posts in this topic

Ditch Fahrenheit

Ditch Fahrenheit

Posted
Posted
Look to the left of the light glare and you'll see a spot that looks almost like an 8 with a line going straight up....that's what I was describing

 

Thank you very much.

 

Does it rub off? Or does it appear to be an abrasion?

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Ditch Fahrenheit

Ditch Fahrenheit

Posted
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You're welcome! I really just want all this to be sorted and everyone to be happy with CGC and their slabs.

 

(thumbs u

 

I think most of us feel that way as well.

 

Most of us are invested in CGC in one way or another. :)

 

It's in everyone's best interest for them to fix this quickly, and to stay healthy financially.

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Ghost Town

Ghost Town

Posted
Posted
You're welcome! I really just want all this to be sorted and everyone to be happy with CGC and their slabs.

 

(thumbs u

 

I think most of us feel that way as well.

 

Most of us are invested in CGC in one way or another. :)

 

It's in everyone's best interest for them to fix this quickly, and to stay healthy financially.

Unfortunately, JDH-84 is also going to need to prove he's not a photoshop expert, shill, or rebel spy. And it would be great if we could get a DNA swab too, just to be safe.

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A-DONIS

A-DONIS

Posted
Posted
I submitted it and I cracked it because I wasn't happy with grade. (Only 9.8 moderns for me) The notes mentioned light color lift on the back. This is a tiny amount of color loss that occurs on the back of most new Marvel's due to the cheap paper. I have several 9.8 with the same amount of "scuffing". It's at the bottom corner and at one staple/spine area.

 

Did you happen to save the mylar when you cracked it out?

 

And, if so, would it be possible to inspect it for staple impressions and/or color lift/rub in the staple areas the mylar was adjacent to?

 

 

I thought production ink rubs didn't count as defect, therefore not a downgrade???

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Ditch Fahrenheit

Ditch Fahrenheit

Posted
Posted
I submitted it and I cracked it because I wasn't happy with grade. (Only 9.8 moderns for me) The notes mentioned light color lift on the back. This is a tiny amount of color loss that occurs on the back of most new Marvel's due to the cheap paper. I have several 9.8 with the same amount of "scuffing". It's at the bottom corner and at one staple/spine area.

 

Did you happen to save the mylar when you cracked it out?

 

And, if so, would it be possible to inspect it for staple impressions and/or color lift/rub in the staple areas the mylar was adjacent to?

 

 

I thought production ink rubs didn't count as defect, therefore not a downgrade???

 

I don't want to derail the more important conversation here, but you are correct - it shouldn't.

 

RMA and I have been talking about this very recently. He has a lot of very recent experience with this issue. Shoot him an email for more information.

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
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More disturbing information.

 

As a long term CGC fan I'm more than a little worried.

 

How many books have these new cases damaged and are they gonna damage? In some cases we're talking about rare and irreplaceable comics that have survived in high grade for many years. And in all cases we're talking about books the submitter considered important enough send in.

 

Sending in books right now is a non starter for me.

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MCMiles

MCMiles

Posted
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I don't think CGC has ever really down graded for staple impressions in the centerfold/interior, it's even one of the indicators used to determine if staples have been replaced. Probably because it's fairly naturally occurring in almost any storage condition typical of comic collecting for as long as we've been collecting them.

 

However, and I mentioned this in the big proofed thread, the paper stock on most comics being manufactured today is very thin. Considering the amount of pressure being placed on the spine in this holder, and as more time passes with the book under pressure, I hypothesize many books will show staple impressions all the way through the covers. Possibly even discoloration or color loss.

 

The increased Newton ring effect that is more visible in this area could probably be thought of as an early indicator.

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drbanner

drbanner

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Posted

Do books like these have those staple indentations as manufactured? I'm not so sure it would be caused by the new case, I've seen plenty of raw books with staple indentations like that. In fact, checking that staple indentations on the centerfold match up with the staples is one way to determine staple replacement.

 

"5) Staple replacement. This is a lot less common on amateur jobs than the other four listed above because it is extremely hard to do without making an absolute mess of the book. Staple replacement is usually done if the original staples were rusted. Rusted staples will usually leave some kind of rust migration stains on the paper next to them, which are usually most easily visible at the outside of the cover or at the interior of the centerfold. If you see any kind of widening of the staple holes on the outside of the cover, check the staple tines at the centerfold. If they don't line up perfectly with the indentations on the paper at the centerfold, they might have been replaced. Look for rust migration on the paper. If it is there, but the staples are replaced, then ask yourself where the rust came from. If it looks like it came from the staples, then the staples were probably replaced or cleaned."

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Point Five

Point Five

Posted
Posted
IMG_20160618_005456_zpssl5g7eeg.jpg

:eek:

 

Hoo boy.

 

With a staple impression like that on the mylar, it's hard to read this as anything else but the case's pressure impacting the spine and causing the indentations.

 

It may be alarmist to extrapolate from one book and one set of photos, but with the cases so new we don't have a ton of data on cracked-out books to go on, do we?

 

 

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jsilverjanet

jsilverjanet

Posted
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Do books like these have those staple indentations as manufactured? I'm not so sure it would be caused by the new case, I've seen plenty of raw books with staple indentations like that.

 

Too late. I'm sure we will see everyone take one example as proof that all books are being damaged etc.

 

I'd recommend looking at the exact same book raw to determine if it's common in this book, just to rule out your suggestion but that won't be done. We've moved into hysteria/panic with any new information without properly vetting the data.

 

 

 

It may be alarmist to extrapolate from one book and one set of photos, but with the cases so new we don't have a ton of data on cracked-out books to go on, do we?

 

 

Bedrock removed 300 books. He could have probably answered these questions, I'm sure he would have noticed indentations like those when he cracked out all those books but it's possible he might have missed it.

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Point Five

Point Five

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Posted
Bedrock removed 300 books. He could have probably answered these questions, I'm sure he would have noticed indentations like those when he cracked out all those books but it's possible he might have missed it.

A fair point, but weren't Bedrock's books all high-grade GA books with 64 pages? We were talking specifically (to Mcmiles' point above) about thinner moderns with thinner cover stock.

 

Maybe this book is a one-off for whatever reason, but the mark on the mylar definitely suggests significant pressure on the book's spine. That is a potential issue with the new case no matter what. (And seriously, I don't want it to be!) It may turn out to be nothing, but it's something we need to continue to learn about.

 

 

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jsilverjanet

jsilverjanet

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i would think that pressure to cause those indentations would probably cause the spine to split especially on moderns like that one. They are very thin, especially at the spine.

 

 

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Point Five

Point Five

Posted
Posted
Do books like these have those staple indentations as manufactured? I'm not so sure it would be caused by the new case, I've seen plenty of raw books with staple indentations like that.

 

Too late. I'm sure we will see everyone take one example as proof that all books are being damaged etc.

 

I'd recommend looking at the exact same book raw to determine if it's common in this book, just to rule out your suggestion but that won't be done. We've moved into hysteria/panic with any new information without properly vetting the data.

But if the book had centerfold tears like that to begin with, could it receive a 9.6?

 

 

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Point Five

Point Five

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i would think that pressure to cause those indentations would probably cause the spine to split especially on moderns like that one. They are very thin, especially at the spine.

 

Right, that's exactly where I'm going. There are implications beyond what it means for this one book.

 

 

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