Just finished Men of Tomorrow

[bobpfef]

A really book. Probably the best "real" book written on the comic book industry. It was prehaps one rewrite away for being a really great book, one that I could see being of interest to a general cultural studies / academic type crowd. The bits about geek culture were pretty interesting though needed to be a bit more developed and supported. I was at times frustrated by the lack of documentation. Often he would have a juicy quote or a little piece of information but there would be no mention in the endnotes what his source was.

 

But for someone who is already interested in GA comics, this book is wonderful. I loved all the little behind the scenes details. Man, Bob Kane doesn't come off well at all.

 

Now I need a new book to read. I'm thinking of Joe Simon's book, as I have heard good reviews of that one. Is there anything out there on Lev Gleason comics?

 

Bob

[Scrooge]

A really book. Probably the best "real" book written on the comic book industry. It was prehaps one rewrite away for being a really great book, one that I could see being of interest to a general cultural studies / academic type crowd. The bits about geek culture were pretty interesting though needed to be a bit more developed and supported. I was at times frustrated by the lack of documentation. Often he would have a juicy quote or a little piece of information but there would be no mention in the endnotes what his source was.

 

Bob, I am glad that I am not the only one that felt some of the research was shaky in the sense that it felt for some of the early chapters on the immigrant experiences at the beginning of the century, for example, that one book or two were looked up as to create a basis in fact and then the author creates his own spin / interpretation as to fit his theme. However, the effort put in "stranding" a lot of known canon in our hobby's history is what makes this book valuable because we have a text we can hand to outsiders. I had my wife read the book after I finished it so she would understand my interest in Alter Ego or CBM. She read through it faster than I thought and enjoyed it, even though I must say more for the pathos of the creators that got rooked than the intricacies of distribution wars, but nonetheless she came away satisfied from the read. The only downside is that the book leaves a downbeat feel to the story, as per your mention of Bob Kane but also the DC founders who lined their pockets on the back of the creators. Maybe, the perfect book would need also an attempt at showing the reason for the artistic appreciation of the work done by the pioneers.

 

Now I need a new book to read. I'm thinking of Joe Simon's book, as I have heard good reviews of that one. Is there anything out there on Lev Gleason comics?

 

I found the Joe Simon's to be a good and well illustrated book, certainly worth reading. As for Lev Gleason, I thought the CBM coverage a little ago was appropriate because it delved into the history of the company (instead of lingering on the traditional: Did you know Bob Wood beat his girls up, sensational coverage.) I ought to go back and read it over but this is my impression this a.m.

[bobpfef]

However, the effort put in "stranding" a lot of known canon in our hobby's history is what makes this book valuable because we have a text we can hand to outsiders.

 

Exactly. Most of the fan-ish stuff can only really appeal to the already converted, but Jones does a good job making the story interesting and relevent from a general cultural perspective.

 

 

I don't have that CBM with the Gleason coverage. Do you know which issue it is, I'd like so see if I can dig one up. I've been getting more and more interested in Gleason. I don't really have many of the crime comics, but the odd Daredevil and Boy Comics always have been enjoyable to read, and just different enough from the standard fair to want to be get more. I which I knew more about Biro.

[Point Five]

Hi, folks!

 

If you've peeked at the "anyone know about Major" thread Mark started, you probably know I'm a big fan of Men of Tomorrow. I really like the sense of perspective the book gives to the creation of the industry, and the way it feels like a social history of comics more than a fannish history of who drew what, etc. I guess l see this book kind of like a Ken Burns film...maybe short on some details & sources, but doing a great job at conveying a feeling of the larger forces at work in creating the industry we know today, and yet at the same time examining some of the major players and showing you events through their eyes. And though some might disagree, I give bonus points to the book for being heavy on text & light on cover reproductions, etc which can be found so many other places.

 

I've typically found books about comic history to be rather disappointing, so this one was a breath of fresh air to me. If people have other recommendations, I'm all ears!

[garthgantu]

Thanks for all the thoughtful commentary on "MOT" - I've got it on my list of books to buy..!

 

Having recently read "The Golden Age of Comic Fandom" and "Tales To Astonish" (the Kirby bio by Ronin Ro), I can recommend those two books unreservedly.

[adamstrange]

I liked Men of Tomorrow but I would have liked it more if it had a few more references. Gerard Jones makes a number of negative comments without providing any evidence.

 

The CBM issue #102 on Lev Gleason is the only subtantive material on that company that I've read.

 

I liked Worlds of Wonder about Otto Binder. It's a carefully researched and documented book about a nice guy.

 

Re: Simon book is a good read, but unless they did more fact-checking than the first version then take some of the statements with a grain of salt.

 

Another book to consider is Shop Talk -- where Will Eisner interviews and swaps stories with a number of artists.

[Scrooge]

Adam,

 

all in agreement as was obvious from my previous post. Let me add this:

 

Re Worlds of Wonder about Otto Binder. It's a carefully researched and documented book about a nice guy.

 

I hawked this on the Month in the Life thread and I hope people are picking it up, especially those with interest in pulps.

 

Re: Simon book is a good read, but unless they did more fact-checking than the first version then take some of the statements with a grain of salt.

 

I read the second edition and I didn't see anything jumping off at me glaringly needing fact checking (as opposed to MOT)

 

Re: Another book to consider is Shop Talk -- where Will Eisner interviews and swaps stories with a number of artists.

 

You know I own a copy but it never really grabbed me so it is left mostly unread. Maybe I need to pick it back up and start with an interview that'll draw me in the book. Any suggestions at to which one(s) would be best to read first?

[adamstrange]

Adam,

 

all in agreement as was obvious from my previous post. Let me add this:

 

Re Worlds of Wonder about Otto Binder. It's a carefully researched and documented book about a nice guy.

 

I hawked this on the Month in the Life thread and I hope people are picking it up, especially those with interest in pulps.

 

Re: Simon book is a good read, but unless they did more fact-checking than the first version then take some of the statements with a grain of salt.

 

I read the second edition and I didn't see anything jumping off at me glaringly needing fact checking (as opposed to MOT)

 

Re: Another book to consider is Shop Talk -- where Will Eisner interviews and swaps stories with a number of artists.

 

You know I own a copy but it never really grabbed me so it is left mostly unread. Maybe I need to pick it back up and start with an interview that'll draw me in the book. Any suggestions at to which one(s) would be best to read first?

 

Adam,

 

all in agreement as was obvious from my previous post. Let me add this:

 

Re Worlds of Wonder about Otto Binder. It's a carefully researched and documented book about a nice guy.

 

I hawked this on the Month in the Life thread and I hope people are picking it up, especially those with interest in pulps.

 

Re: Simon book is a good read, but unless they did more fact-checking than the first version then take some of the statements with a grain of salt.

 

I read the second edition and I didn't see anything jumping off at me glaringly needing fact checking (as opposed to MOT)

 

Re: Another book to consider is Shop Talk -- where Will Eisner interviews and swaps stories with a number of artists.

 

You know I own a copy but it never really grabbed me so it is left mostly unread. Maybe I need to pick it back up and start with an interview that'll draw me in the book. Any suggestions at to which one(s) would be best to read first?

 

I had to go back through the book and what I was remembering was the hyperbole about Captain America -- the events surrounding the creation and success of the character. He doesn't give MLJ's Shield it's due (he does cover that, but in a later section, to diminish the character's probable influence in the creation of Cap). Nor does he give much credit to Jack Kirby. He makes one comment about Kirby doing his thing over Simon's pencils in issue 1. I did spot a couple other minor errors, but, to be fair, these were not very significant.

 

Re: Shop Talk. I read the original interviews in the Spirit Mag from Kitchen Sink I didn't actually read the book. I just remember enjoying them because of the more conversational nature of the interviews. Frankly, I could listen to or read Eisner all day. One nice extra with the Kitchen Sink Spirit Comics was Eisner's comments about the stories and artists in invovled in that issue. It was very much in the spirit of the "Making Of' material you now find on DVDs.

 

Okay, I checked my copy of the book and started reading the interview with Gill Fox on Lou Fine. I found that enjoyable.

[Scrooge]

Adam,

 

thanks for checking. I'll try the Gill Fox first.

 

I went back to the Simon book and found the paragraph about Kirby doing his thing and it's still there which got me into thinking OT - Not wanting to start an overly long thread here but last week we were talking about artists that you initially didn't necessarily appreciate to their true worth (excuse my paraphrasing). The same happened to me with Kirby. The first Kirby I was exposed to was his later 70's work and once I heard people rave about Jack, I'd be scratching my head as I didn't understand the adulation. Open minded, I checked out his earlier 60's & early 70's work but it didn't click still. For me to "get" Kirby, that is to have an appreciation of his work, it took to look at the early Kirby and to look at his style evolve over the years. With this hindsight, I now know where he started and how he ended to where he was in the 60's. There is a progression in Kirby and now I appreciate that. However, I still "like" Kirby only until 196*. I can't place an exact year at this time but I don't follow him past a certain development. I hope this makes sense once you guys read this. I would also like to remind you that I also grew up reading more European cartoonists than anything else, thereby developing a different kind of sensitivity to art. In my mind, it made me more accepting and appreciative of big foot cartooning than otherwise.

[adamstrange]

The best example I could come up with for an artist that "clicked" is Briefer. Honestly, he made no sense to me initially.

 

I love a number of European artists and wish there were more English language translations. I didn't get into them until I was an adult, but I love many of the cartoonists as well as the realists.

[Scrooge]

Funny you should mention Briefer. He's coming up in Friday's feature.

[bobpfef]

Re: Shop Talk. I read the original interviews in the Spirit Mag from Kitchen Sink I didn't actually read the book. I just remember enjoying them because of the more conversational nature of the interviews. Frankly, I could listen to or read Eisner all day. One nice extra with the Kitchen Sink Spirit Comics was Eisner's comments about the stories and artists in invovled in that issue. It was very much in the spirit of the "Making Of' material you now find on DVDs.

 

I second this. I don't have the Shop Talk book and I have most of the interviews in the Kitchen Sink magazines, but they were pretty good. At times I lost interest when they would go on and on about different brushes and other technical things that I, as a non-artist, wasn't that interested in. But Eisner had a good style, and they weren't so much interviews and talks. Eisner would state his opinion on the subjects covered and even argue when he disagreed with someone. Good stuff.

 

The notes in the Kitchen Sink Spirit comics are pure gold too. Even though the current hardcover reprints look really nice, I still go back to the Kitchen Sink comics for my Spirit stories. I really like the B/W art, and the information by Eisner on each story is great, and nothing I've ever seen in another reprint series.

 

Bob

[bobpfef]

I liked Worlds of Wonder about Otto Binder. It's a carefully researched and documented book about a nice guy.

 

I'll have to get that one. I really enjoy his Captain Marvel work.

[adamstrange]

Because of this thread I browsed my copy of the Murphy Anderson book.

 

It's really good and I definitely should have read it a long time ago.

 

What I failed to notice is that it's by RC Harvey, who almost always has something interesting to say and who says it well.

[Scrooge]

Even though no one will care, my copy actually arrived in the mail today and, yes, b/c it is by RC, it will be well written and provide more than just biographical facts. Now with your recommendation, I'll have to read this and the Gill Fox in Shop Talk and I am catching up on my AE reading. I just finished the Morris Weiss interview in AE 43 and I must admit that writing the Month in the Life thread has added an additional level of appreciation of these interviews as per his discussion of Bushmiller which I would have care little about had I not profiled Nancy a little ago ... so I guess this whole post is about patting myself in the back Oh well, blame this on being Friday.

[PUNYHUMAN]

Men of Tomorrow, very entertaining read so far. I've read half the book so far & I'm enjoying the hell out of it!! Well worth getting,if anybody's interested in the history of comics.

[Larryw7]

Man, Bob Kane doesn't come off well at all.

 

 

Kane doesn't come off well in any books or articles, except for his own autobiography and a few interviews(some with Will Murray in CBM). In his defense, he was a pretty young guy when Batman was created, and from what I understand, his father really handled a lot of his business transactions, and was very protective of Bob and his creation. So he may not be quite as bad a guy as many seem to indicate he was. I don't know what Men of Tomorrow says about him, but Comics:Between the Panels and other accounts are very unflattering.

[esquirecomics]

We've lost so many of the "Men of Tomorrow" during the last decade, and even the past 2-3 years.

 

Who is really left from the early days of the 1930s/40s?

[lou_fine]

We've lost so many of the "Men of Tomorrow" during the last decade, and even the past 2-3 years.

 

Who is really left from the early days of the 1930s/40s?

 

Mark;

 

I guess you was not around when they had that classic AACBC dinner in San Diego around 1999 or 2000. That was when they had all the GA DC boys from the 30's and early 40's there including Flessel, Guardineer, etc. Just a really wonderful wonderful dinner with a full house of well over 100 people.

 

Some of the smart people took the special edition of the CBM that was given out to all the attendees and managed to get autographs from these pioneers of the comic industry. A real smart move since I believe three or four of them pass away within the year.

 

I believe one of the board members here have pictures of that classic event. Hopefully they can share them here with us again.

[esquirecomics]

My copy arrived today. Thanks for recommending it. I already started to skim through it. Good book indeed.