CGC Comic Collecting After 55

[David P Hartman]

I'll be 62 in Nov, and still have the first comic I ever bought! Spider-Man #19! I had a friend, 2 years older than myself, that lived across the alley, from our house in Hoopeston, Illinois that started 'collecting', so I did too. Back then, there was only one way to acquire comics. And that was new, off the racks. This is rural Illinois, 100 south of Chicago. It was only a matter of time before I took the effort, and sent off for price lists from first Howard Rogofsky. Then Robert Bell. It seemed like a joke that Rogofsky was asking 20 bucks for an FF1! My friend across the alley was given a box of comics, receiving a Spider-Man (Amazing)1, FF1,among them. He lost interest after a few years, but I couldn't ever talk him into selling out to me. Eventually I broke down and ordered a copy of (Amazing) Spider-Man #1, for $10 (I sent cash) from Robert Bell. And I ordered comic bags from him, $2 for a hundred.

Somehow I was made aware of an event sponsored by the FCC. (Fantasy Collectors of Chicago) that my dad and I caught a train, and went to. A one day show that had Rick Yager as a guest, who along with Lt. Calkins did the original Buck Rogers comic strip. I got an autograph. I remember seeing one dealer, who had a fanzine that he himself published. Spa Fon was that zine, and he was Rich Houser (spelling?). At $5 an issue, it was a little Rich for my blood. Heck, you could buy an EC for that, back then. I was looking for Atlas, pre hero Marvels in the 10 cent boxes, and finding them. The cover price of comics, then was 12c. I believe Russ Cochran was also set up at this show, and had original Frazetta sketches starting at 50 bucks! I couldn't believe these nose bleed prices!

Somehow, I became aware that if one was serious about comics, that had better have a subscription to Rockets Blast Comic Collector. Eventually becoming pen pals with Raymond Miller, and Howard Siegel. It was there that I saw an ad for Overstreet's effort, and buying that, sent him pages of notes and corrections. He sent me a copy of the 2nd book, minus it's cover, to redline, and I received contributor status for a few years after that.

Another grade school friend of mine, whom I introduced to collecting, had moved to Indianapolis (his father, a store manager, was transferred). I've since lost contact with Steve Mattingly, but he proceeded to put out his own fanzine, named Epoch. Steve introduced me to another guy he met, that was selling back issues of comics through a combination fanzine/sales list that he had named CPL. Contemporary Pictorial Literature. In a few years, I would find myself making the trip to Buffalo, with Bob Layton and his wife Lee Ann, to set up and work their back issue table. But, having stopped in East Liverpool, Ohio I talked Dan Adkins into going with us. Boy was it cold there! Especially by the falls!

But this is probably boring everyone.....

[Ken Aldred]

Not at all.

 

As a kid in 70s England my options were very limited, and I always find it interesting to read about the experiences of North American comics fans during that period, or earlier. A world that was then completely inaccessible to me.

[Black_Adam]

I'll be 62 in Nov, and still have the first comic I ever bought! Spider-Man #19! I had a friend, 2 years older than myself, that lived across the alley, from our house in Hoopeston, Illinois that started 'collecting', so I did too. Back then, there was only one way to acquire comics. And that was new, off the racks. This is rural Illinois, 100 south of Chicago. It was only a matter of time before I took the effort, and sent off for price lists from first Howard Rogofsky. Then Robert Bell. It seemed like a joke that Rogofsky was asking 20 bucks for an FF1! My friend across the alley was given a box of comics, receiving a Spider-Man (Amazing)1, FF1,among them. He lost interest after a few years, but I couldn't ever talk him into selling out to me. Eventually I broke down and ordered a copy of (Amazing) Spider-Man #1, for $10 (I sent cash) from Robert Bell. And I ordered comic bags from him, $2 for a hundred...

 

Fascinating stuff, David, and very similar to my own experiences as a budding comic collector. The only real difference is I started more than a dozen years later (my first Spider-Man comic was #134 with the Tarantula).

 

Is your Spider-Man #19 in a plastic holder with a 9.8 sticker on it? Or has it been read and reread a hundred times since that nine-year-old kid in Hoopeston reached for it on that long-gone comic rack?

 

 

 

 

[Scrooge]

Not at all.

 

As a kid in 70s England my options were very limited, and I always find it interesting to read about the experiences of North American comics fans during that period, or earlier. A world that was then completely inaccessible to me.

 

+1 These stories are never boring. Please tell us more. Did you continue reading stuff from the newsstands at the same time you collected vintage during that time period?

[David P Hartman]

No, my ASM isn't slabbed. It wasn't until maybe 6 years ago that I finally took a small group (7) of what a perceived to be nice books and paid $261 cash, and submitted them at the first Long Beach show. Those included :

Four Color 128,726.......................................

Raggedy Ann & Andy 15..............................

Mickey Mouse 43..........................................

Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindear (1951)....

Battle Action 1..............................................

& a Red Goose March of Comics 18............

There were no 9's, or 8's. Or 7's. And my perceptions of fine and near mint were starting to change. Last I checked, the March of Comics 18 is still the best known copy. But then, it's been the only one submitted. But this is all getting ahead of my back story(ies).

In the late '60's, no one had much regard for comic books. There was not just an indifference, but a distaine in many (dis)respects. I remember showing my mother a Rogofsky listing showing an Action 1, or Batman 1 selling for a staggering $100! My mother looked at me saying "no comic book will ever be worth $100!" She hates it whenever I remind her of that! At one point, I had taken some birthday money... I think my weekly allowance was 50 cents... Anyway I had put together maybe 5 bucks, and bought a stack of comics from a different childhood friend. Later, that evening my mother asks me what/where my money was? My friend's mother had called my mother, to explain how her son had that much money! I was, at that point, told to get rid of my books until I learned the value of money! A major setback! There was tears, and the only concession was I could keep Classics Illustrated titles. I didn't take much comfort in that! I lived for that next issue of Spider-Man, and though I hadn't yet put faces to the names.... I needed to get my Ditko on! Well I had an orange crate that was my bookcase. Both 'shelves' probably amounting to about what a short box would hold. I took my best (Spideys) and wrapping them in a grocery bag, hid them in the basement. The rest I gave away (to the friend who's mother had snitched on me). It seemed like years, but eventually my parents (mom) had talked to a psychologist, that my dad knew from his army stint in Korea. And in spite of Dr. Wertham's best efforts... I was given a green light once again. This was maybe 1965? I remember when Batman aired, 2 nights a week, and was interrupted for coverage of some stupid Cuban Missile Crisis! Then later, besides myself when there wasn't anything to watch for days, with the Kennedy coverage! Going back a little further, I remember upon hearing that Superman had been shot (George Reeves) my mom saying that he didn't have his uniform on! (I was starting to have my doubts about Santa, as well.)

Does anyone else remember ever being able to order back issues of comics, directly from Marvel's offices? It resulted from ordering my Merry Marvel Marching Society package, fan letters, etc. But I got a postcard, breaking down what back issues could be had at cover price, with hand written corrections on that, and signed Flo. (Flo Steinberg as it turned out) There were no 'shipping and handling charges'. For a quarter, I at least got a Spider-Man annual 1! That Spider-Man took on the Sinister Six, single handedly (though one at a time) was quite impressive! My own problems didn't seem quite as heavy, after that. More later.

 

[porcupine48]

loving this.

[David P Hartman]

One other insight I had back then, after seeing the Green Hornet/Batman crossover episodes. I was certain that if need be, Kato could kick not only Batman & Robin's posterior, but(t) the Green Hornet's as well! How many Man from Uncles, Mission Impossibles, etc. etc. karate chops were we suppose to buy into, as advanced fighting techniques? It's hard to give any believability to a story line past the first fight scene! But, it was 'camp', so Batman rode that wave. And after talking my mother into letting me go see Thunderball (it had an M rating), I had yet another hero to keep an eye on. Comic books, though close, weren't everything. Did someone just drop a pin? Spider-Man was the heart of Marvel, regardless of what the masthead over the FF title said! I liked Thor, but the whole Don Blake identity thing was a stretch. Daredevil was interesting, but blind or not, jumping off buildings, without fear, seemed like radar might tell you an instant before you go splat, but really? And, speaking of stretches, I did like the FF/Avengers crossover (FF 25,26). And Kirby's job on the Hulk/Thor book (JIM 112) stand out! It is a testament to John Romita's talents, that Spider-Man remained my favorite! It must have been hard to follow say that Molten Man cover, with nothing but black/red, or even Just a Guy Named Joe. But he did. When Gwen Stacy's dad died, I cried. More so than when she did, I believe! I was still 'bitten ' myself, and it's never been the same since (not that I know what that would have been....) Next up. Early fandom.

 

[Scrooge]

[1950's war comics]

The spinner rack was just inside the front door of the local convenience store back in 1971 and one time I bought a couple comics including a Sub Mariner which I didn't realize i had already read at a friends house, so I went back and exchanged it for another on the rack without telling the owner which I realize now was dumb but hey I was only 10 yrs old......

[SquareChaos]

Not at all.

 

As a kid in 70s England my options were very limited, and I always find it interesting to read about the experiences of North American comics fans during that period, or earlier. A world that was then completely inaccessible to me.

 

+1 These stories are never boring. Please tell us more. Did you continue reading stuff from the newsstands at the same time you collected vintage during that time period?

 

+1 - not boring at all, looking forward to more.

[Black_Adam]

...Does anyone else remember ever being able to order back issues of comics, directly from Marvel's offices? It resulted from ordering my Merry Marvel Marching Society package, fan letters, etc. But I got a postcard, breaking down what back issues could be had at cover price, with hand written corrections on that, and signed Flo. (Flo Steinberg as it turned out) There were no 'shipping and handling charges'. For a quarter, I at least got a Spider-Man annual 1! That Spider-Man took on the Sinister Six, single handedly (though one at a time) was quite impressive! My own problems didn't seem quite as heavy, after that. More later.

 

Fascinating stuff, David! I love hearing other comic aficionado's origin stories. It may have only been the Sixties, but the way you spin it makes it sound like the Golden Age!

 

 

[ninanina]

At 62, I bought lots off new comics during the '80's and '90's and still have them (obviously). I stopped because they simply got too expensive. I purchased a huge silver / bronze age collection about 14 years ago from a widow who contacted me as she knew I was a collector. I was lucky enough to have access to this collection before the dealers got to it. Buying the collection is how I found out about the CGC comic board and I've been listening in and contributing ever since.

 

The widow was motivated to sell her son's collection to another collector rather than someone who wanted to re-sell them so I had 1st pick. Purchased lots of back issues on e-bay to fill in the gaps but have stayed away from expensive Silver Age books during the last 8 years or so. Am doing no buying now, but I still have not read 40 or 50% of the comics in my collection which is at around 18.000 or so at this time. I plan on never selling my collection, but that may change once I retire in a couple years as my wife has let me know she doesn't want to deal with selling them once I'm gone.

 

I've stopped buying back issues as they've become too expensive. Anyway, I've got enough reading material to last me for at least another decade or so.

[David P Hartman]

If you've ever seen "the Collector's Handbook" by Halperin, Rohan, Prendergast that is offered by Heritage (ISBN 1-59967-145-x u.S. $14.95) it basically shows their whole business model is to target heirs of substantial collections & celebrity estates. It runs down different strategies for dealing with estate taxes, gift tax caps, appraisals, trusts, donations and charitable elements, capital gains, and other sleep inducing verbiage, all designed to lead you to the conclusion that they are THE full service dealer that will guide you through this maze of options..

They boast annual sales that exceed $600 Million, with a half a million registered online bidder/members, proclaiming themselves to be the world's largest collectibles auctioneer.

I imagine that Sotheby's or Christies doesn't consider their auctions of fine art, automobiles, yachts, to be collectables?

By the time they take their sellers commissions (15%), and what sounds like 28% min. inheritance tax, etc., etc. it's already half gone.

I don't know the specifics of your situation there ninanina. If your wife has also been a second income source, or if there's 'old' money involved from her side of the family. Nor do I want too. I've never been married. Nor do I want to. The viable candidates, at this stage, are out of warranty, and I hate doing things by committee!

But what's the point of working 5 or 6 days out of 7, for 45 years, to build a collection you love. And when you can finally not have to stress about what will make your boss look good for his next directors meeting, or embellish activity reports, or follow Standard Practice 3 ring binders that cover any contingencies. Your task is to start eliminating it?

Pick up Oversteet, and all you see are ads. Every dealer, will pay you more, treat you better, and make you wealthy. You may only have one book. Or the library of congress. They will come to you, regardless of where you live. Fast. And give you money up front! We're all going to be rich! What's your problem?

Sorry. Sometimes I get a little off course. And, certainly am not one to consult regarding cohabitation and life partners. I can spot a gold digger easy enough. The hard part is getting them to leave. Again, no projections on you or yours ninanina.,

[Robot Man]

Hey David, glad to see you on the boards again. Now stop spewing and get back to the good old daze of collecting!

[David P Hartman]

Yer right RM. I get distracted, and should try to stay focused.... Thanks Mr. Wizard!

I forget exactly how or why I first got in contact with Duffy Vohland. I had no doubt read a few of his Duffy's Tavern columns, or loc's (letters of comment) printed in any number of comics. He lived in Clarksburg, Indiana which was (and possibly still is) 50/60 miles southeast of Indianapolis. I thought Hoopeston (Illinois) was small, but there was actually one intersection. If there was a horse, it must have been in a barn somewhere. But we met, in Circle City/nap town (Indianapolis) and became friends. I may have been 16. He a couple years older. Duffy qualified as a BNF (big named fan), I suppose, and was very outgoing! He knew about everyone that had anything to do with comics in the IL,IN,OH, & KY area it seemed! His father owned a tree/landscaping business, and there was even a small lake(pond) in his families backyard!

I'd mentioned Steve Mattingly earlier. A grade school buddy, I introduced to comics that was now living on the east side of Indy, and I had an aunt & uncle, cousins in that area as well. So whenever school's summer vacation or extended weekends presented themselves, I'd find a way to go visit. Now Duffy loved comics! They were in cabinets in the family garage, and stacked everywhere. I made the effort to organize (alphabetize) them, but it was like shoveling sand in the tide.

I remember one road trip to Nobelsville, IN where Roger Slifer lived, and worked as a short order cook at the Blue Bird Cafe. I remember we met Roger Stern (Sterno, since we already had a Roger), who was a DJ (for a radio station) that served Testicle Tech (Ball State). There was Larry Breniky (forgotten the spelling on some of these names... sorry guys) who liking Doc Savage went by Doc. I mentioned Bob Layton, earlier as well, who sold comics. This was the core group of people, or The Gang.

There was also Jim Novak, in the suburbs of Chicago, whom I became very good friends with. It seemed that I was either going to Chicago or Indianapolis on any given weekend. Conventions were attended in Cleveland, Detroit, Louisville, even New York (Al Shuster & Phil Sueling's). Lots of road trips. Gas was less than 25 cents a gallon, back then, but Duffy could always fill the tank for free at his place (landscaping nepotism).

We made one trip to East Moline and visited Alan Light, who had the Mississippi River just beyond his back yard! Murray Bishoff really was loud! Alan's mom was so nice! A bunch of us went to Don Rosa's once. His mother was also so nice! Don hadn't gotten home yet. His dad had a construction company. He had the entire top floor of where they lived, and she showed us his comic room. Metal shelves, wall to wall, with stacks of comics! There was a stack of Batmans, with #1 being on the bottom! This was before bags and boards, for the most part! I'm pretty sure that Don may have cautioned his mom on visitors, in his absence, after we left. Not that anything was disturbed. I was actually working on indexing Atlas books, at the time and showed him what that envolved. And Don gave me my first EC, a dup he had. I think it was an Impact? It left one.

More later, if Bob (RobotMan) can keep me focused.

[thehumantorch]

No, my ASM isn't slabbed. It wasn't until maybe 6 years ago that I finally took a small group (7) of what a perceived to be nice books and paid $261 cash, and submitted them at the first Long Beach show. Those included :

Four Color 128,726.......................................

Raggedy Ann & Andy 15..............................

Mickey Mouse 43..........................................

Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindear (1951)....

Battle Action 1..............................................

& a Red Goose March of Comics 18............

There were no 9's, or 8's. Or 7's. And my perceptions of fine and near mint were starting to change. Last I checked, the March of Comics 18 is still the best known copy. But then, it's been the only one submitted. But this is all getting ahead of my back story(ies).

In the late '60's, no one had much regard for comic books. There was not just an indifference, but a distaine in many (dis)respects. I remember showing my mother a Rogofsky listing showing an Action 1, or Batman 1 selling for a staggering $100! My mother looked at me saying "no comic book will ever be worth $100!" She hates it whenever I remind her of that! At one point, I had taken some birthday money... I think my weekly allowance was 50 cents... Anyway I had put together maybe 5 bucks, and bought a stack of comics from a different childhood friend. Later, that evening my mother asks me what/where my money was? My friend's mother had called my mother, to explain how her son had that much money! I was, at that point, told to get rid of my books until I learned the value of money! A major setback! There was tears, and the only concession was I could keep Classics Illustrated titles. I didn't take much comfort in that! I lived for that next issue of Spider-Man, and though I hadn't yet put faces to the names.... I needed to get my Ditko on! Well I had an orange crate that was my bookcase. Both 'shelves' probably amounting to about what a short box would hold. I took my best (Spideys) and wrapping them in a grocery bag, hid them in the basement. The rest I gave away (to the friend who's mother had snitched on me). It seemed like years, but eventually my parents (mom) had talked to a psychologist, that my dad knew from his army stint in Korea. And in spite of Dr. Wertham's best efforts... I was given a green light once again. This was maybe 1965? I remember when Batman aired, 2 nights a week, and was interrupted for coverage of some stupid Cuban Missile Crisis! Then later, besides myself when there wasn't anything to watch for days, with the Kennedy coverage! Going back a little further, I remember upon hearing that Superman had been shot (George Reeves) my mom saying that he didn't have his uniform on! (I was starting to have my doubts about Santa, as well.)

Does anyone else remember ever being able to order back issues of comics, directly from Marvel's offices? It resulted from ordering my Merry Marvel Marching Society package, fan letters, etc. But I got a postcard, breaking down what back issues could be had at cover price, with hand written corrections on that, and signed Flo. (Flo Steinberg as it turned out) There were no 'shipping and handling charges'. For a quarter, I at least got a Spider-Man annual 1! That Spider-Man took on the Sinister Six, single handedly (though one at a time) was quite impressive! My own problems didn't seem quite as heavy, after that. More later.

 

I'm sure enjoying your reminiscing David. Keep it coming.

[David P Hartman]

I didn't intend to high jack the thread... it predates CGC. Quick time jump on that.... It must have been maybe 1990,91 and I helped Tony Riaola (sorry, if I have to stop and fact check spelling, I'll never get 'em done) with his table(s) at SDCC, and a few guys across the way were set-up, occasionally putting on white gloves, or having a black light on... But toward the end of the show, when whoever it was, was taking up money for the next years table fees. A thousand, in advance, might have been for 2 tables!? Back to story. I think I saw maybe two people that actually stopped and talked to those guys! I couldn't tell you if Steve Borack was one of them. But I felt a little embarrassed for those guys! They certainly didn't seem like there was any money going into the till. I guess I got that one wrong. Go figure.

[David P Hartman]

I'd mentioned Steve Mattingly. He also had an outgoing personality, and wasn't shy about asking for art for his fanzine, Epoch (which Jim Novak started). He had acquired some impressive pieces. A few Steve Fabian originals that really got your eye. Steve (Fabian) was a student, fan, or incarnation of Virgil Finely? The stippling or techniques he utilized would make you stare in wonder! His originals were small! He must be one of those people that had microscopic vision! But even that doesn't explain how you could even sharpen a color pencil to that fine of a point! He would have been the guy to talk to, for instance... if you wanted the Lord's Proyer on a grain of rice!

Steve (Mattingly) was showing me some interesting nice finished pieces (not just pencil sketches). He had a Syd Shores Captain America. Joe Sinnot pieces. I remember he was a little ticked that had to 'buy' an Alex Toth piece, only to receive a photostat (from Alex).

He and Duffy were in contact with this one fan from Canada, that was just itching to get his foot in the door (professionally) and I can only imagine what prompted the offer.... But I read the letter where by he was offering Steve a percentage of his fees (for a lifetime!) if Steve could get him in a Marvel! The guy had sent a few actual pencil pages, 6 panels to a page, that Duffy was to ink. I only saw them after Duffy did a number on (not of) them. John Byrne eventually got his day, in spite of some of that early Roger2000 robot stuff that Charlton used.

Steve (Mattingly) would do or say things that , let's say ...hadn't come true yet. But he did broker some deals, for a 14 or 15 year old kid! He really surprised me once, when he handed me a Johnny Comet daily original! And gave it to me! There was some three way trade or something that involved a Hogarth Tarzan page, as I understand it. There was no angle, or trade he was looking to make with me. I was in his wedding party, a few years later (his brother was the best man).

Let me tell you about comic fandom in the early seventies. You had to seek it out! There were SciFi people that while acknowledging 'comics', didn't really respect us. They would have their international world cons, blah blah blah. But, living in a town of 5/6000 people (farming community) in the middle of nowhere, and trying to find old comics, wasn't easy. It was much more likely to find Big Little Books even.... But even though it was only 30 years earlier, or 32, I never did make that 'find'. Don Rosa got his collection (and I'm not talking about the 'new' stuff he let go off later), in one fell swoop. And I forgot the specific name he calls it. But he celebrates that one day a year, when he acquired his collection. I don't recall if there was a tec27 or Action 1. But Sup & Bat 1s were. And when I said #1 was at the bottom of the stack, around that time it was somewhere before #200 say.... He didn't need a checklist to see what he needed. They were(and are) ALL there. He may have had a few upgrades in mind... But to this day, the most impressive collection I've ever seen! (Now I haven't been to Robot Man's place.... yet) When I eventually saw/talked with Don, out at Terry O'Neil's show a couple years ago. I asked him about his having sold his collection, which I had heard. He still has his collection. That was only the 'new' stuff he let go of.

[David P Hartman]

I think it was Duffy, Roger Slifer, and myself that made the drive to East Liverpool. Ohio. Duffy had wrangled an invite from Dan Adkins, who had returned to his home town after having lived in Phoenix. He had gone into the army, out of high school, as a draftsman of sorts. Then found work with Wally Wood doing Tower scripts & art, in what sounded like a very small studio. 3 or 4 people churning out pages. Anyway, Wally gave a pretty free reign over content, so when Dan wrote and drew the Dynamo story, and killed him off, Wally asked him "really?, ok!" If you've ever been in that part of Ohio, you know it's got a few extreme hills (but, I was born & raised in the flatlands), and the highway running next to the Ohio River there (on the Ohio side) is, to this day, no doubt having rockslides. Anyway, the tristate area (OH,PA,WV) is Appellation and one could only imagine the moonshine & monkeyshines that transpire. Back to Dan's. Taped on a wooden sliding closet door was a certificate, Dan was proud of. For best inker, on Barry Smith's Conan. His shaz-um award. His pronunciation. Shazam probably sounded to Gomer Pyle to him? I saw him point this out to visitors, time and again. Never heard anyone correct his pronunciation. Dan lived on Coca Cola and Cheetos... and antacid pills. And he loved to play chess.

Val Mayerik was one of the guys Dan had vouched for, as well as Craig Russell, with regards to Marvel. Up to then, if you worked in comics, you lived in NYC. Fed Ex was changing the game. I happened to be at Dan's when this guy that had sat next to Val 's girlfriend on a bus, was pursuing an art career, and phone call, phone call, Dan invited him over. He brought a 5 or 6 page story he had penciled! No word balloons, or captions. Just the tightest pencils you ever saw that involved an Oriental guy and this chest or box. Dan sent it to Roy, as is, and eventually, it was inked by Duffy and printed as a backup story in a b&w magazine MoKF as The Casket of so & so, or some such name....It got Paul Gulacy in the door, and pretty quickly Roy Thomas teamed up Paul with Doug Moench.

Paul Gulacy was very much influenced by Jim Steranko! Dan knew Jim! Dan knew everyone in the business! But, his favorite artist was Robert McGinnis! The Thunderball, You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever, are movie posters by McGinnis (and Frank McCarthy). I've never met McGinnes, don't let me mislead you. Paul was also a big James Bond fan. Paul could also do a jimmy Stewert or John Wayne impression that was impressive! He could also make 'car' noises that, when crossing the street, you thought you were going to die! Like John Wayne said....If you want to bark with the big dogs, you can't be peeing with the puppies!

Anyone awake? U up....is this microphone working...tap tap tap.

[David P Hartman]

Interesting that I was getting more feedback from my childhood stuff, than when I started dropping names.... I can take a hint. (Somebody give me a hint.)