Daredevil #16 - Spider-man Appearance

[inconceivable]

Hi I was wondering if you could lend me some assistance with this book. It has a crease running through the center of the front cover.

 

Links to large scans:

Large Daredevil #16 Front

Large Daredevil #16 Back

 

Dan

 

[FFB]

4.5-5.0

[Aces]

4.5-5.0

 

Agree, leaning more 4.5 'cause of the big crease.

 

Probably was folded in half in a kids back pocket on the way home from the store in the 1960s.

[inconceivable]

4.5-5.0

 

Agree, leaning more 4.5 'cause of the big crease.

 

Probably was folded in half in a kids back pocket on the way home from the store in the 1960s.

 

Aces,

 

Thanks for the input. The crease is front cover only. None of the pages are creased nor the back cover. I do have another one (maybe for later) that does go through the whole book.

 

Dan

[bounty_coder]

I think that it is a somewhat attractive copy. That crease is fairly light and not too prominent (i've see worse). Nice solid square copy. Good spine wear...I say VG/FN 5.5

 

Cool book.

 

-bounty

[FFB]

4.5-5.0

 

Agree, leaning more 4.5 'cause of the big crease.

 

Probably was folded in half in a kids back pocket on the way home from the store in the 1960s.

 

Aces,

 

Thanks for the input. The crease is front cover only. None of the pages are creased nor the back cover. I do have another one (maybe for later) that does go through the whole book.

 

Dan

 

I have a couple of early Spideys with long, thin front-cover-only creases like that but with a bit less spine and edge wear. They graded out at 5.5. (I bought them already slabbed, so I haven't been able to inspect for interior defects.) This copy has a little more roughness around the spine and especially the upper edge. That's why I come down at 4.5 to 5.0. I wouldn't argue with 5.0 because it is still a very attractive copy.

[divad]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

[inconceivable]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

 

or not, I am reluctant to call it a sub crease since it does not go through the whole book, just the front cover. My overstreet grading guide is unclear on whether the crease must go through the whole book for it to be considered as such. Where do you get your technical grade info?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

[Nefaria]

I have some early Marvel's that have sub folds. In the mid sixties that's the way they mailed their subs. I didn't think much of it then because nobody back then knew what the future held. Back to the point. Over the years the sub fold is getting harder and harder to see. Nice bags and backer boards and semi-tight compression has made them harder to distinguish. But the fold line stays longer on the front cover as they were folded in on the front cover. The back cover and internal pages weren’t as tightly folded as the front cover.

After all that I inspected your scan more closely and came to the conclusion that your comic definetely is not a sub fold. It's to far off center. The sub fold was right down the middle.

[FFB]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

 

or not, I am reluctant to call it a sub crease since it does not go through the whole book, just the front cover. My overstreet grading guide is unclear on whether the crease must go through the whole book for it to be considered as such. Where do you get your technical grade info?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

 

Burntboy's AF#15 has a sub crease through the entire book and a bit of other peripheral wear and it's a CGC 5.0.

[divad]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

 

or not, I am reluctant to call it a sub crease since it does not go through the whole book, just the front cover. My overstreet grading guide is unclear on whether the crease must go through the whole book for it to be considered as such. Where do you get your technical grade info?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

 

Burntboy's AF#15 has a sub crease through the entire book and a bit of other peripheral wear and it's a CGC 5.0.

 

I might give an AF #15 a 5.0 too But for Harry, I'd make it a 6.0

[divad]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

 

or not, I am reluctant to call it a sub crease since it does not go through the whole book, just the front cover. My overstreet grading guide is unclear on whether the crease must go through the whole book for it to be considered as such. Where do you get your technical grade info?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

 

Dan,

 

I was inviting this response from you I'll write more later tonight, when I get some time.

 

 

-divad

[divad]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

 

or not, I am reluctant to call it a sub crease since it does not go through the whole book, just the front cover. My overstreet grading guide is unclear on whether the crease must go through the whole book for it to be considered as such. Where do you get your technical grade info?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

 

Dan,

 

I was inviting this response from you I'll write more later tonight, when I get some time.

 

 

-divad

 

Dan,

 

I don't have my guide in front of me, but I've looked at this issue before, as I have 40 or 50 SA books with subscription creases. I believe the guide allows for "significant" or "severe" creases in the VG grade. You would be hard-pressed to argue that a full-length cover crease is NOT a severe or significant crease, and alternatively that it could be considered "moderate". That being said, technically, you could not go higher than a 5.0 (VG/FN), the highest grade in the VG range, even if the book otherwise graded a 7.5.

 

Here the spine stress and overall age/wear are consistent with a 5.0 to 5.5 book. I think exceptions would be appropriate for subscription creases, if the book was otherwise an 8.0 or better. It is irrelevant that the crease appears on only one cover, it's still a full-length crease.

 

-divad

[inconceivable]

Dan,

 

It's a subscription crease - technical grade is 4.5 max

 

-d

 

or not, I am reluctant to call it a sub crease since it does not go through the whole book, just the front cover. My overstreet grading guide is unclear on whether the crease must go through the whole book for it to be considered as such. Where do you get your technical grade info?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

 

Dan,

 

I was inviting this response from you I'll write more later tonight, when I get some time.

 

 

-divad

 

Dan,

 

I don't have my guide in front of me, but I've looked at this issue before, as I have 40 or 50 SA books with subscription creases. I believe the guide allows for "significant" or "severe" creases in the VG grade. You would be hard-pressed to argue that a full-length cover crease is NOT a severe or significant crease, and alternatively that it could be considered "moderate". That being said, technically, you could not go higher than a 5.0 (VG/FN), the highest grade in the VG range, even if the book otherwise graded a 7.5.

 

Here the spine stress and overall age/wear are consistent with a 5.0 to 5.5 book. I think exceptions would be appropriate for subscription creases, if the book was otherwise an 8.0 or better. It is irrelevant that the crease appears on only one cover, it's still a full-length crease.

 

-divad

 

Diva-

 

How many of your 40-50 books did you get graded? Did they all receive less than a 5.0? Regardless, this has been a neat discussion for me. Anyone else have anything to add? I would be interested to hear if others had subscriptions that only the front cover was creased.

 

Thanks.

Dan

[divad]

Diva-

 

How many of your 40-50 books did you get graded? [NONE] Did they all receive less than a 5.0? [N/A] Regardless, this has been a neat discussion for me. Anyone else have anything to add? I would be interested to hear if others had subscriptions that only the front cover was creased.

 

Thanks.

Dan

 

Dan,

 

See comments above. Also, I had a gorgeous copy of Spider-Man #47? (the Kraven cover) CGC 4.5 cream pages - only real flaws were the subscription crease, and tanning to the covers. It otherwise presented itself as an 8.0.

 

 

Unless a book is a key issue, I see no benefit in slabbing anything under an 8.0, and then, only for resale.

[burntboy]

Diva-

 

How many of your 40-50 books did you get graded? [NONE] Did they all receive less than a 5.0? [N/A] Regardless, this has been a neat discussion for me. Anyone else have anything to add? I would be interested to hear if others had subscriptions that only the front cover was creased.

 

Thanks.

Dan

 

Dan,

 

See comments above. Also, I had a gorgeous copy of Spider-Man #47? (the Kraven cover) CGC 4.5 cream pages - only real flaws were the subscription crease, and tanning to the covers. It otherwise presented itself as an 8.0.

 

 

Unless a book is a key issue, I see no benefit in slabbing anything under an 8.0, and then, only for resale.

 

David, i'm curious about this statement.

 

while i tend to practice this way, it would seem that slabbing will always (most of the time) generate more money over raw. for non-key books over a couple hundred bucks, i would think the cost of slabbing could be easily recouped via a higher sale price.

 

perhaps it's the word KEY that is at issue. for example what would you call issues 2-6 of the Hulk?? they command significant bucks in mid-grade and slabbing probably means decent extra cash. are these KEYS to you??

[divad]

Diva-

 

How many of your 40-50 books did you get graded? [NONE] Did they all receive less than a 5.0? [N/A] Regardless, this has been a neat discussion for me. Anyone else have anything to add? I would be interested to hear if others had subscriptions that only the front cover was creased.

 

Thanks.

Dan

 

Dan,

 

See comments above. Also, I had a gorgeous copy of Spider-Man #47? (the Kraven cover) CGC 4.5 cream pages - only real flaws were the subscription crease, and tanning to the covers. It otherwise presented itself as an 8.0.

 

 

Unless a book is a key issue, I see no benefit in slabbing anything under an 8.0, and then, only for resale.

 

David, i'm curious about this statement.

 

while i tend to practice this way, it would seem that slabbing will always (most of the time) generate more money over raw. for non-key books over a couple hundred bucks, i would think the cost of slabbing could be easily recouped via a higher sale price.

 

perhaps it's the word KEY that is at issue. for example what would you call issues 2-6 of the Hulk?? they command significant bucks in mid-grade and slabbing probably means decent extra cash. are these KEYS to you??

 

Harry,

 

We're talkin' only SA/BA here, right?

 

Hulk #2-6 are all KEYS due to the interrupted run.

 

As to lower grade keys, I've slabbed a 6.5 Hulk #181, a 5.0 TOS #40, a 5.0 Hulk #3 and #5, a 5.0 Sgt. Fury #13, and a 3.5 Avengers #4 with great success.

 

And for that matter, most books with guide value over $200 are minor keys at least (with the exception of Spidey's) which are ALL keys. Unfortunately, I sold all of my Spidey's ungraded, and left a LOT of money on the table.

 

You win some, you lose some.

 

As you can see though, I recently graded books that have guide values of about $70 (Subby #8 8.0 and Thor #165 8.5). I received offers of $100 each for these and accepted them. I could have done just as well raw, but not without a little bit of work

[uclapeterg]

4.5.

[Kramerica]

5.5