quick question...

[jokersrevenge]

What issue marks the start of silver for batman? I guess it would be the same month as the flash comic, but i'm not sure when and what number that would be.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Detective #327 / Batman #164

[esquirecomics]

Detective #327 / Batman #164

 

It can't be that late for Detective.

 

Some believe Detective #225 (known for the first appearance of the Martian Manhunter) issued in 1955 to start Silver. Most believe Showcase #4 (first SA appearance of the Flash) published about ten or so months later in Summer or Fall 1956, as I recall, to mark the true start.

 

Offhand, I don't know the corresponding Detective issue as compared to the publication date for Showcase #4, but I believe Detective was monthly at that time (yes?) and would venture it is somewhere around issue #235.

 

Even if a little later than that, Detective #327 is, what, from around 1962-64? SA was way into existence by then.

 

I am doing this from memory so someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[esquirecomics]

Just checked OS for Detective. It was issue #236.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Just because the issues you mentioned correspond w/ the release of Showcase #4, does not imply the first silver age Batman / Detective. Previous to 'tec 327, the stories were just as goofy as they had been throughout the 50s (going to alien worlds, chasing criminals across giant typewriters, Batwoman, Bat-Mite, ect.) Definite change in tone of stories and art from 'tec 327 onward.

[esquirecomics]

Just because the issues you mentioned correspond w/ the release of Showcase #4, does not imply the first silver age Batman / Detective. Previous to 'tec 327, the stories were just as goofy as they had been throughout the 50s (going to alien worlds, chasing criminals across giant typewriters, Batwoman, Bat-Mite, ect.) Definite change in tone of stories and art from 'tec 327 onward.

 

I agree with you that simply because a particular book marked the SA (or any period for that matter) it does not necessarily mean that other titles entered the period the same exact month or perhaps even the following.

 

People can certainly differ on when a particular title entered a specific age. While there may very well have been a significant change in tone with the issue you referenced, with all due respect there is simply no way in my opinion that Detective waited until issue #327, which was in the early 1960s (six or seven years after the SA officially began), to enter the SA. That is also one hundred issues later than what OS says. While OS may not be the be-end-to- end-all source, it is a reference point that would need to be addressed.

[Aman619]

look at it this way:

Detective 236 is the first Detective Comics issue in the SA, and

Detective 327 is the first appearance of the Silver Age Batman.

Youre BOTH right!!

Its a floor wax, AND a breath freshener!!

[esquirecomics]

I can live with that.

[tth2]

look at it this way:

Detective 236 is the first Detective Comics issue in the SA, and

Detective 327 is the first appearance of the Silver Age Batman.

Youre BOTH right!!

Its a floor wax, AND a breath freshener!!

Aman=Solomon?

[nearmint]

look at it this way:

Detective 236 is the first Detective Comics issue in the SA, and

Detective 327 is the first appearance of the Silver Age Batman.

Youre BOTH right!!

Its a floor wax, AND a breath freshener!!

 

I thought it was a floor wax and a desert topping...

[nearmint]

Just because the issues you mentioned correspond w/ the release of Showcase #4, does not imply the first silver age Batman / Detective. Previous to 'tec 327, the stories were just as goofy as they had been throughout the 50s (going to alien worlds, chasing criminals across giant typewriters, Batwoman, Bat-Mite, ect.) Definite change in tone of stories and art from 'tec 327 onward.

 

I think you run into problems if you require a shift in tone to mark a title's entry into the Silver Age. Using that logic, the first Silver Age issue of Superman would be #233, an issue firmly implanted in the Bronze Age.

[rjpb]

While the "new look' was definetly a dramatic shift in both the look and tone of the Batman books, I agree that it comes a little late in the SA to herald the first SA Batman. I'd say a more subtle shift in the title that corresponds more with the begining of the Silver Age is when Batman became a quasi-sci-fi title with aliens and whatnot. Someone more knowledgable than me will have to pinpoint when that era actually begins. Interestingly Batwoman first appears just before the "official" begining of the Silver Age, and she and the original Batgirl play a prominent role in many of the Batman adventures of the early Silver Age.

[Aman619]

look at it this way:

Detective 236 is the first Detective Comics issue in the SA, and

Detective 327 is the first appearance of the Silver Age Batman.

Youre BOTH right!!

Its a floor wax, AND a breath freshener!!

 

I thought it was a floor wax and a desert topping...

 

I think youre right!!!

[Aman619]

While the "new look' was definetly a dramatic shift in both the look and tone of the Batman books, I agree that it comes a little late in the SA to herald the first SA Batman. I'd say a more subtle shift in the title that corresponds more with the begining of the Silver Age is when Batman became a quasi-sci-fi title with aliens and whatnot. Someone more knowledgable than me will have to pinpoint when that era actually begins. Interestingly Batwoman first appears just before the "official" begining of the Silver Age, and she and the original Batgirl play a prominent role in many of the Batman adventures of the early Silver Age.

 

good points. I dont think the aliens angle is the way to go though, and Batman was meeting aliens since Batman 42 (or so) and especially in Batman 79 (?) where he met up with the Martian Manhunter tryout. Batwoman and Batgirl are Silver Age concepts on a par with what Superman was working with in the SA with the expansion of his family cast of characters and imaginary stories and such.

 

But Infantino's influence was a major shift and has been accepted as a new Silver Age Batman phase. So I would find it awkward to backdate it now on the basis of Batwoman and Girl... or aliens.

[Zonker]

Just because the issues you mentioned correspond w/ the release of Showcase #4, does not imply the first silver age Batman / Detective. Previous to 'tec 327, the stories were just as goofy as they had been throughout the 50s (going to alien worlds, chasing criminals across giant typewriters, Batwoman, Bat-Mite, ect.) Definite change in tone of stories and art from 'tec 327 onward.

 

I think you run into problems if you require a shift in tone to mark a title's entry into the Silver Age. Using that logic, the first Silver Age issue of Superman would be #233, an issue firmly implanted in the Bronze Age.

 

 

I think the "shift in tone" is the only way to have things make sense. I like aman's formulation above, and I'm definitely on the same page as Tom regarding the first "New Look" Batman being the first Silver Age Batman. Yes, it is a historical oddity that the Silver Age arrived so late to the Bat-books, but that's what happened!

 

I've often pointed out the Marvel parallel: there were issues of the Marvel/Atlas monster books published during the Silver Age of the late 1950s, but it wasn't until the super-heroes started showing up that IMO these books became Silver Age. Likewise, Marvel's Strange Tales rocked on relatively undisturbed for a while after FF #1 was published... but when the Human Torch started appearing in that book Strange Tales entered the Silver Age. (Again, IMO).

 

As to Superman... using a similar argument Superman 233 is indeed the first Superman book of a new Age, but it was first Superman book of the Bronze Age. The shift to Silver Age for the Superman titles is an interesting topic for debate, since there was no parallel in the Super-books to Julie Schwartz arrival and the New Look Batman. Mort Weisinger had them firmly under his grasp throughout the period. A couple of suggestions that have been offered over the years include the first Kara-Supergirl and the first Brainiac. That would be a fun thread in its own right.

[nearmint]

I still have trouble with requiring a tone shift to designate a title's entry into the SA. Especially when that tone shift occurs sometimes years apart from title to title. The whole point of assigning "ages" is to simplify the historical record. Assigning ages at dififferent month/years for each title because of disparate events in each doesn't simplify the discussion, it complicates it.

[Zonker]

Who says it has to be simple?

[nearmint]

ME!