Variants

[NoMan]

When I left the hobby around 1990, variants were really just getting started. A lot of people say variants, among other things, caused the 90s crash.

 

I got back in the hobby about 6 months ago and it seems like nothing but variants. Tons and tons of variants.

 

If one believes that variants killed comics and comic shops in the 90s, what's coming down the road. There are a billion more variants then the ones I remembered from the 90s.

[NoMan]

Or maybe modern day variants have saved the hobby? What do I know.

[Doktor]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

[NoMan]

I guess I was putting what you call gimmicks in the variant pile. Never saw them as being two separate things so you bring up an excellent point. Never looked at it that way.

[Doktor]

See, and I think that distinction between "gimmick" and "variant" makes a huge difference when comparing the market models of the 90's and today.

 

Having a regular & a variant version of a product makes all the difference in the world, vs the 90's model of 1 version. Gimmicky or otherwise.

[CBT]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

[Doktor]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

 

Exactly the point I was hinting at. The 90's didn't have "variants", they had gimmicks on random issues to bump sales, but left the retailers on the hook if things didn't sell.

 

The modern variant model is completely different, in that the retailers can make up the cost of most of the inventory that allowed them to buy the variants on the sale of the variants alone. So between the pull list copies sold & the variants sold at a mark-up, all the extra inventory is essentially pure profit when/if sold. And any retailer with a good ordering model can do no worse than break even on most of their orders just by selling the variants & their pull list copies, so that even if the rest of the order sits on the shelf, they're not sitting on expensive inventory.

 

But those "collectors editions" or "foil editions" were the ONLY editions of 95% of those books. It was a #1 Collectors Item gimmick, not a variant. The foil books were the only version of that book, unless you count newsstand. Sure, there were a handful of them that were released with a foil variant and a regular version, but looking only at the direct market, probably 95% of the books were gimmicks, not variants. And very few of those books that had an actual variant were big titles (X-Men 1's 5 covers, X-Force 1's identical covers with different cards in the bag, and a few others)

[NoMan]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

 

How are you so sure "variant vaules will collapse" and if you believe it's an absolute, how long before the collector throws in the towel?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

When I left the hobby around 1990, variants were really just getting started. A lot of people say variants, among other things, caused the 90s crash.

 

I got back in the hobby about 6 months ago and it seems like nothing but variants. Tons and tons of variants.

 

If one believes that variants killed comics and comic shops in the 90s, what's coming down the road. There are a billion more variants then the ones I remembered from the 90s.

 

290 posts and 45 of them were new topics. About one post in six is a new thread.

[Artboy99]

in 1990 I walked into my LCS and saw on the new comic shelf several different VARIANT covers to the McFarlane Spider-Man #1 and I closed my file and took a 14 year hiatus from collecting comics.

 

Call them whatever you want, foil covers, gimmick, they were variants.

 

I think today is worse, and is only being sustained by current movie popularity.

 

[NoMan]

in 1990 I walked into my LCS and saw on the new comic shelf several different VARIANT covers to the McFarlane Spider-Man #1 and I closed my file and took a 14 year hiatus from collecting comics.

 

 

The exact thing happened to me. But I took a 26 year hiatus. Although I did continue to read stuff like Eightball and Yummy Fur and Seth's work.

[darkstar]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

 

How are you so sure "variant vaules will collapse" and if you believe it's an absolute, how long before the collector throws in the towel?

 

maybe because people are buying them only because they appear on a hot list online.

[NoMan]

I do think the sketch cover SS books are interesting.

[Artboy99]

When I left the hobby around 1990, variants were really just getting started. A lot of people say variants, among other things, caused the 90s crash.

 

I got back in the hobby about 6 months ago and it seems like nothing but variants. Tons and tons of variants.

 

If one believes that variants killed comics and comic shops in the 90s, what's coming down the road. There are a billion more variants then the ones I remembered from the 90s.

 

290 posts and 45 of them were new topics. About one post in six is a new thread.

 

I just checked mine, 12 posts created in over a thousand

 

196 posts created since 2004, over 9900 posts. Is that acceptable?

[Doktor]

in 1990 I walked into my LCS and saw on the new comic shelf several different VARIANT covers to the McFarlane Spider-Man #1 and I closed my file and took a 14 year hiatus from collecting comics.

 

Call them whatever you want, foil covers, gimmick, they were variants.

 

I think today is worse, and is only being sustained by current movie popularity.

 

In the direct market, there were 4 total covers to Spider-Man 1. 1st print green bagged one. A few weeks later a silver 2nd print. A few weeks later a gold 3rd print . And the retailer platinum one that came out a month or so later to reward retailers. They were released over the span of like 2 months.

 

Sorry, but reprints aren't variants for the simple fact that they're not released at the same time. They're reprints. Even if they have a different cover or a re-colored cover.

[grebal]

When I left the hobby around 1990, variants were really just getting started. A lot of people say variants, among other things, caused the 90s crash.

 

I got back in the hobby about 6 months ago and it seems like nothing but variants. Tons and tons of variants.

 

If one believes that variants killed comics and comic shops in the 90s, what's coming down the road. There are a billion more variants then the ones I remembered from the 90s.

 

290 posts and 45 of them were new topics. About one post in six is a new thread.

 

I don't start any new threads, when I have idea for thread I send it to NoMan by PM.

 

; )

 

 

I think the 90s bust was like a lot of other bubbles - people began buying/speculating beyond actual demand. Whatever "actual" demand might happen to be. At some point there were no new suckers, er, I mean collectors, to pay the small increase for the next trade. So speculators who had no genuine interest in comics sold what they had, thus, burst.

 

I think the gimmicks like chrome and foil and million copy printings exploited rather than triggered the situation - though probably it exacerbated the bubble and speculative mood.

 

BUT, I have no little personal knowledge of the 90s bubble & burst, although one of the lawyers at my office grabbed a handful of us for a jaunt to the LCS, and I recall buying a few early Spawns and some 'Death of Superman' issues I was still on a break from comics and only dipped my toes a bit - was too busy at time with work, work, and alcohol and chicks.

 

The warning signs I would look for today would be on the demand side - if every guy and his sister are buying copies on spec and the 'shoe-shine guy' starts recommending comics and giving tips on tomorrow's winners.

[greggy]

103/66833 = 0.15411 %

[bababooey]

in 1990 I walked into my LCS and saw on the new comic shelf several different VARIANT covers to the McFarlane Spider-Man #1 and I closed my file and took a 14 year hiatus from collecting comics.

 

Call them whatever you want, foil covers, gimmick, they were variants.

 

I think today is worse, and is only being sustained by current movie popularity.

 

In the direct market, there were 4 total covers to Spider-Man 1. 1st print green bagged one. A few weeks later a silver 2nd print. A few weeks later a gold 3rd print . And the retailer platinum one that came out a month or so later to reward retailers. They were released over the span of like 2 months.

 

Sorry, but reprints aren't variants for the simple fact that they're not released at the same time. They're reprints. Even if they have a different cover or a re-colored cover.

 

I recall Spidey 1 had a green & silver versions of the first print, some slight variation in the price box on one or both copies depending on whether they were bagged when sold. I always understood that the gold one is the only second print that came out a few weeks later.

 

I don't know a thing about the platinum, nor do I care about the much later chromium reprint.

 

I could be wrong I never paid much attention to the book myself but what you're saying here is totally new to me.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

103/66833 = 0.15411 % 0.00154115482

 

335 / 32324 = 0.0103638164

[Lethal_Collector]

 

I think I see where Doktor is going. Now that retailrs are 'protected', the 'collapse' would be loss of variant collectors. But if they leave, would stores then take on that additional risk with the variant issues, or just stop ordering them all together to avoid the risk?

 

 

Jerome