Thoughts on Appraising your Art

[MHoes]

This subject got touched on in another thread, but I didnt mean to hijack it, so perhaps it deserves it's own thread ?

 

I had my original comic art appraised, for insurance purposes. The appraiser was recommended to me by my insurer, which I was told (in another thread) is common practice among insurers to

 

[not exactly sure if it's ok to sub-quote someone responding in other thread, sorry if it's not considered 'ok', will edit this post if not.]

recommend using an accredited appraiser for their impartiality, and because they have been taught to use universally recognized standards to valuate personal property.

 

Also the appraiser I used noted that although they were happy to do it, it wasn't the typical type of art they regularly appraised. Which, again was pointed out to me that:

 

It is standard practice for an appraiser to inform a client that they may not be as familiar in a specific area, however they still would need to apply the same standards of practice to provide the service as someone who is more familiar appraising such items. The only related concern with this is if they need to spend more time to perform the work of someone who is more proficient in the area, although that is something you would be well within your rights to ask of the person assigned to the job of appraising your collection.

 

So, more in general: did or didnt you get your collection appraised ? What were your experiences ? Who did you choose, and why ? etc.

[Twanj]

Did you find their appraisal to be reasonably accurate?

 

I never have been appraised, I'm too small time.

[MHoes]

Did you find their appraisal to be reasonably accurate?

 

I never have been appraised, I'm too small time.

Although I'm pretty much guessing here (didn't think too much of it at the time), they seemed to go pretty much with the demonstrable value I paid for the items. And even going slightly above the value I paid for one item, which both I and them thought was the most 'expressive' (sorry, cant think of a better word for it right now). Although they didn't take into account the framing cost (I personally feel that if you paid ~$200 for a piece, why frame it in a ~$10 frame ?).

 

Also: My regular home insurance doesn't cover 'art', so no matter how low of value the collection, I'm pretty much forced to have it appraised and insured separately.

[ComicArtMall]

I've usually based the value on my purchase price. If I just sold an item, and I have another item that's almost exactly like it, then I'll base it on that as well. But, I don't have any experience getting an "official" appraisal. Maybe after my collection is big enough and worth enough money, I'll do that.

 

I also have a digital catalog of all my art, just in case anything happens.

[comicwiz]

I think it's wise to have art appraised for a wide range of reasons, but namely to protect yourself in the event of a loss. While we hear a lot about thefts in our hobby, one of the more unkind types of losses is fire and water damage, especially with only example items, so having an impartial valuation documenting what you owned as well as confirming you were in ownership of such items is key.

 

As a collector myself, I would never expose myself to the risks of self-appraising my own collection. Even with the knowledge and expertise required to satisfy an insurers request for valuation, the issue with self-appraising presents itself when a loss claim is started. The lacking impartiality and third-party confirmation you were in ownership of the items in the reported conditions become a major obstacle which could negatively impact your entitlement to coverage protection.

 

I'm certain that as collectors we can all identify with an understanding of how crucial it is to be dilligent with factors such as condition and authenticity, however you would be amazed at how exposed some collections are when I go to valuate them. Without "back-up" to establish such things as condition, unique characteristics of what they own, or evidence to completely eliminate doubt of being in ownership of genuine article, you open yourself up to all the fine print insurers famously use to get out of paying out a claim. One of the most unanticipated benefits to a well documented back-up or work file is how uself that information becomes in situations where a victim needs undisputable evidence to recover stolen property in a theft case.

 

I'm accredited through the CPPA and most of the appraisals I do relate to insurers requesting an appraisal for items meeting or exceeding a certain value threshold (typically $5K or over, per item, however I have more recently dealt with customers whose insurer is asking for an appraisal on items valued at $3K or higher). Other reasons pertain to post-loss valuations, divorce, probate, but what's important in pre-loss appraisals is that your policy is underwritten for replacement cost coverage. This type of coverage would be necessary for items that appreciate in value. Other coverages such as actual cash value are not ideal for items such as original comic art, as these are normally based on original purchase price, and/or factor in depreciated costs (i.e. better suited for automobiles or consumer electronics). Make sure when your policy is underwritten that the broker or agent is fully aware you require at minimum, replacement cost coverage for your OA.

[comicwiz]

Did you find their appraisal to be reasonably accurate?

 

I never have been appraised, I'm too small time.

Although I'm pretty much guessing here (didn't think too much of it at the time), they seemed to go pretty much with the demonstrable value I paid for the items. And even going slightly above the value I paid for one item, which both I and them thought was the most 'expressive' (sorry, cant think of a better word for it right now). Although they didn't take into account the framing cost (I personally feel that if you paid ~$200 for a piece, why frame it in a ~$10 frame ?).

 

Also: My regular home insurance doesn't cover 'art', so no matter how low of value the collection, I'm pretty much forced to have it appraised and insured separately.

 

I'm glad you brought this up. I am doing back to back appraisals (finishing up one as we speak, and starting another in the next few days). Both these collections have numerous items where the framing costs nearly meet or exceed the value of the contents inside each frame. I have not seen such beautiful framing outside of museums or galleries. Replacement cost valuation (and coverage through your policy) is the only method to ensure you are compensated for all related and anticipated costs to replace the item exactly, or as close, to pre-loss ownership of the item(s).

[Bronty]

what does an appraisal typically cost Joe? I understand it would vary widely depending on the details.

[comicwiz]

Dan, the last two I did were in the average of $500 for a restricted appraisal report, but admittedly those two assignments involved spending a little more time contacting galleries and/or specialized dealers of the items as there was literally no comparables data for reference. I also tend to be more detail oriented on only example pieces, so I make sure all the imaging I do is of high quality, but I also try to get the client to provide as much back-up to me before hand-off so I can be efficient. Some of the items in this last assignment were 19th Century woodblock prints and I had to spend a little more time on those to provide details on what characterstics differentiated them from later prints, etc. This was a necessary step as there is a huge difference in value between earlier impressions and later prints.

[AKA Rick]

I don't know if appraising is the right way to go or not as it's subjective, you ultimately need to clear it with the insurance carrier to ensure that they'll honor whatever valuation assigned for full coverage, otherwise you're wasting your time and even worst, may get a false sense of security and when something does happen and it comes time to make a claim, you're claim gets rejected.

 

I think having substantiation of the purchase price alone is a good starting point as well as photo/video of the items for reference too. Although some pieces may be acquired cheaply and eventually appreciate in value, if you at minimum have what you paid for it cites for coverage, you're not worst off than losing it all.

 

Since artwork is one of a kind, but there is historical precedent of "similar" items of character, age and artist, but still more of a guide than a rule, the valuation can be very subjective which a lot of insurance companies may either balk at or say "if you want to value it at X, then you need to pay Y to cover it" and your premium will be reflective of your valuation.

 

If you're insuring for a certain incident whether fire, flood, damage, or theft, you can take preventative measures (like putting on a condom, so to speak, avoidance rather than risky assumptions). Maybe invest in a fire safe, get that bolted to the ground floor (it can't be on any 2nd level or higher, as it becomes a safety hazard if the house burns and the flooring gives and the safe plummets down). Consider off-site storage. Store the artwork in mylars and polybags, sealed. And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

[MHoes]

Did you find their appraisal to be reasonably accurate?

 

I never have been appraised, I'm too small time.

Although I'm pretty much guessing here (didn't think too much of it at the time), they seemed to go pretty much with the demonstrable value I paid for the items. And even going slightly above the value I paid for one item, which both I and them thought was the most 'expressive' (sorry, cant think of a better word for it right now). Although they didn't take into account the framing cost (I personally feel that if you paid ~$200 for a piece, why frame it in a ~$10 frame ?).

 

Also: My regular home insurance doesn't cover 'art', so no matter how low of value the collection, I'm pretty much forced to have it appraised and insured separately.

 

I'm glad you brought this up. I am doing back to back appraisals (finishing up one as we speak, and starting another in the next few days). Both these collections have numerous items where the framing costs nearly meet or exceed the value of the contents inside each frame. I have not seen such beautiful framing outside of museums or galleries. Replacement cost valuation (and coverage through your policy) is the only method to ensure you are compensated for all related and anticipated costs to replace the item exactly, or as close, to pre-loss ownership of the item(s).

Well my frame's are not *that* expensive.

 

It just never occurred to me that it makes perfect sense to have that insured, too. Although for me personally it would be hard for me now to proof what I paid for them. I no longer have the original invoices as I never kept them after I received the framed pieces, and all that is left are old bank statements that are no more specific than 'amount x was paid to framer y at date z' (without specifically showing what the payments were made for). Anyway, I just checked the terms and conditions of my insurer, and frames are explicitly mentioned as 'not covered', so I guess that for my current insurance it doesn't matter anyway.

[Eric Seffinga]

And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

 

Not intending this as a question directed at this statement, but it's reminded me to ask one to the whole group.

 

Has ANYBODY ever heard of ANY comic book art having been stolen from someone's house? I've heard cases of art having been taken from conventions, and even more often, portfolios of work lost at shows, in taxis, in transit, etc. But I have never heard of a single case of comic art having been taken from a residence during a theft. Wondering if anyone has an actual story where this has occurred? I've asked this before when people have brought up insuring against theft, but no one ever has come forward with any actual case of it happening. I'm just curious for posterity's sake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[comicwiz]

I don't know if appraising is the right way to go or not as it's subjective, you ultimately need to clear it with the insurance carrier to ensure that they'll honor whatever valuation assigned for full coverage, otherwise you're wasting your time and even worst, may get a false sense of security and when something does happen and it comes time to make a claim, you're claim gets rejected.

 

I think having substantiation of the purchase price alone is a good starting point as well as photo/video of the items for reference too. Although some pieces may be acquired cheaply and eventually appreciate in value, if you at minimum have what you paid for it cites for coverage, you're not worst off than losing it all.

 

Since artwork is one of a kind, but there is historical precedent of "similar" items of character, age and artist, but still more of a guide than a rule, the valuation can be very subjective which a lot of insurance companies may either balk at or say "if you want to value it at X, then you need to pay Y to cover it" and your premium will be reflective of your valuation.

 

If you're insuring for a certain incident whether fire, flood, damage, or theft, you can take preventative measures (like putting on a condom, so to speak, avoidance rather than risky assumptions). Maybe invest in a fire safe, get that bolted to the ground floor (it can't be on any 2nd level or higher, as it becomes a safety hazard if the house burns and the flooring gives and the safe plummets down). Consider off-site storage. Store the artwork in mylars and polybags, sealed. And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

 

You raise a lot of good points.

 

I guess my view is informed by my own collecting experiences and pursuits, and I assure you with the amount of work I have on my plate, the furthest from the truth is that I'm sharing this within a community of collectors for self-interested reasons.

 

I would immediately find it suspicious for an insurer to underwrite a five figure collection without some documentation or verification you are in ownership of said personal property. It isn't uncommon for insurers to ask for proof by way of pictures, video and/or to send one of their people to see your story checks out. The take away here is that the history of people abusing insurance in the past is what informs whatever diligence and verification steps they take in the present time.

 

So if an insurer just agrees with everything, sends you your insurance certificate and policy by mail without needing any proof or verification, the problems will arise when a loss claim is started. And the problems will present in the way of comparables that will be disimilar and not reflective of what you owned. This is a very complicated subject to describe, so I'll use the example of a slabbed comic. The adjuster comes back with an offer for a raw comic that is not in the same grade, nor is it certified. A dispute arises over this, and they ask for proof you "owned" such a book. So you quickly throw together a message with a link to the original auction and/or PayPal invoice. Even with this, they don't consider this proof you owned it and offer to pay a percentage of that purchase price, which was from 3 years ago, and the value of the item has increased since. Their approach is you are going to take what we are offering and you are going to like it.

 

IF a proper appraisal report had been drawn up, the report would dictate what you were owed, and in the case a significant passage of time had passed from when the report was drawn up, upon request an appraiser would provide an update on valuation before a cheque is written.

 

I had this very thing happen a few months ago, and I can explain a real life situation where this took place. My client contacted me after they had already started a claim for the loss of an item valued in the five figures. It was over a year from the time I did the report for him, but when he told me what the adjuster offered I immediately knew something was amiss. In less than 20 minutes, I came up with the correct comparable that should have been used, and the difference was mid four figures and 30% higher than what they had originally offered. I instructed him on the exact terminology he needed to use to make his case, and when he called, the adjuster immediately agreed and wrote the cheque.

 

If the fact pattern had been different in the way adjusters cherry-pick comparables that are contextually disimilar or too low in an effort to pay as little out as possible, I would say don't bother with a proper appraisal. But when insurance is already cold comfort for a loss situation, and you get beat up by an insurer that clearly doesn't want to pay what is deserved, you don't realize how important this all becomes when its too late and you've left yourself exposed.

 

As far as a subjective nature, this really depends. Do you want to be paid an old purchase price, or would you rather be reasonably accomodated to replace as close to the page you lost? If it's an interior page, do you ask for as similar a page in terms of the layout, characters appearing on the page, and from the same issue? If it's a cover, do you seek out an unpublished version, or if the artist is still alive, do you ask for the artist to recreate one for you? Do you anticipate for such a thing to happen, and in returning to the market, you realize you're at the mercy of a single dealer whose hoarded all that artists works or have to deal with a an artist or their agent whose expectations on their value has drastically changed from the time you originally commissioned them? The only way any of these scenarios of accomodation would be realistic is if an appraisal report anticipated a replacement cost valuation, and if you didn't have one drawn-up, none of these scenarios would be offered, and you'd be lucky to get a percentage of what you originally paid for the lost art using a retrodated valuation.

 

 

[AKA Rick]

And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

 

Not intending this as a question directed at this statement, but it's reminded me to ask one to the whole group.

 

Has ANYBODY ever heard of ANY comic book art having been stolen from someone's house?

 

I've heard cases of art having been taken from conventions, and even more often, portfolios of work lost at shows, in taxis, in transit, etc. But I have never heard of a single case of comic art having been taken from a residence during a theft.

 

Wondering if anyone has an actual story where this has occurred? I've asked this before when people have brought up insuring against theft, but no one ever has come forward with any actual case of it happening. I'm just curious for posterity's sake.

 

For me, the Litmus Test begs the rhetorical question before you disclose your possessions to the public of "What Do I Have To Gain VS What Do I Have To Lose?"

 

I know for many it's the altruistic endeavors of sharing, where a lot of others it's that chest pumping ego feeding of "look at me with jealous eyes please" bragging rights. Everyone has their own reason and rationale for showing off their collection or not.

 

Minimize your risks with discreet and strategic disclosure.

 

Why post all of your treasures on the very public internet when some random can do a few Google searches to figure out where you live?

 

Even if it's not happened before to anyone, do you want to be the 1st victim?

 

When you really think about it, it's quite easy to figure out who someone is, where they live and the value of their artwork. If it's kept in a portfolio, think of how easy for some folks (like Art Dealers and Artists) who keep in excess of $10,000 maybe even $100,000 worth of artwork in something that measures 15" x 20" x 2" that weighs under 20 lbs. The right information in front of the wrong person is a recipe for misfortune.

 

Likely or unlikely, is it a chance you want to take? If there was a 1/% you'd die by making a simple innocent and easily controllable gesture that's not necessary, would you go on the side of probability with 99% confidence you'll come out okay, or do you evaluate that 1% risk and circumvent that occurrence by eliminating it.

 

So, information minimization may not mean elimination.

 

You can still share and talk about your art with true friends (i.e., not the mass fake Facebook friends, who you've acquired through the years whom you accept into your life yet you've never seen nor met before). Keep your circle tight. CAF is not a community, it's a public forum, unless you can have privacy settings for access.

 

You can show your weaker art, but keep the grails hidden, so there's no leprechauns looking for the end of the rainbow for your pot of gold. No need to tell people you have the original cover for Amazing Fantasy 15 that's worth the value of a mansion in the mid-west.

 

You can make sure your children (as well as friends/family) know the importance of not talking about your collection (i.e., "My dad has a comic book worth $10,000" playground bragging) - - we've all heard of kids bringing friend over their homes and end up accessing a parent's supposedly hidden and secure firearm and getting shot or friends coming over and stealing that child's Playstation gaming unit.

 

You can display your art, especially 11" x 17" size, but guess what... if you go to Kinko's, you can make an exact replica hard to differentiate to the untrained eye, and then display that copy rather than the original. You'll eliminate the risk of damage or theft to the original, yet can still frame it up nicely and proudly knowing in your heart you have the original stored safely.

 

Back to the original topic. Is the purpose of insurance to protect you or pay you? If it's to protect you, then keep quite. A security camera installer once asked me, "do you want the camera to be installed with discretion or noticeable?" - - I said, I don't want to "catch a thief" and that I wanted to "discourage theft", so let it be known I'm watching and aware, so please move along and find another victim. It does me little good to find solace in knowing who came in to commit a crime. I'd rather never have them come in at all.

 

Again... "What Do You Have To Gain?" versus "What Do You Have To Lose?"

 

 

 

 

 

[comicwiz]

I can totally relate to everything you said. Two days ago, I posted on my Facebook wall that someone had answered one of my WTB ads, and claiming they had a Star Wars collection they wanted to sell using one of my photos. That photo has only been shared in Facebook groups. I mean, I'm probably saying something people already know is going on in other ways, like sellers using images of things not belonging to them on eBay or craigslist. And even in the worlds oldest and revered professions, there will be a doctor or lawyer who are terrible at what they do, and I just happened to encounter a con artist that's so sloppy and dumb that it's almost laughable. But it also opens up this concern that he may be using that image to scam others. Or, whats to say any of the images I've shared in Facebook groups will be used by someone to claim they own these items to pull off an insurance scam?

 

I'm also very guarded about what I have. I've taken a lot of flack for this in Facebook groups especially, where the belief is if you have it, flaunt it, and if you don't, somethings wrong with you. However, a little over six months ago I had something happen to me that made me realize being guarded and not sharing what you own is only half the battle. It was a late night, I received a call from a client and was on the phone with them until just past midnight. When I got off the phone, it was unusually quiet in the house for a parent of two. So quiet I could hear a faint dripping sound. I checked the faucets and every water source in the house, but it sounded like it was coming from the cold air vent in the living room. I eventually followed the sound to the basement, to discover the entire half of my basement was filled with water. What had happened is my two boys were playing "mini-sticks" hockey in the kitchen earlier that day. The ball went behind the fridge, and in trying to retrieve the ball, my oldest pulled the line feeding water for ice along with the ball. That water line had been leaking for about 8 hours uknown to me or anyone in my family, and all of it ended-up in that half of the basement.

 

Thankfully, none of my collection was in that area. But I did have to throw out a lot of their early childhood toys, and other contents which were damaged. Until something like this happens, you don't realize how bad a minor little thing like a water leak can get. Incidentally, the owner of one of the largest art collections I had handled encounted a similar issue. They lived in a condo, and the unit above them had left water running in one of the tubs, and began to enter into their unit. With 90% of their collection hanging or being displayed in their condo, they spent days trying to remove, cover/protect their art and clean-up the water from the incident.

 

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to worry about such things, but as a collector at heart, nothing guts you quite like seeing something that has taken years to curate and amass waste away because of a bad situation or freak accident.

[MHoes]

I don't know if appraising is the right way to go or not as it's subjective, you ultimately need to clear it with the insurance carrier to ensure that they'll honor whatever valuation assigned for full coverage, otherwise you're wasting your time and even worst, may get a false sense of security and when something does happen and it comes time to make a claim, you're claim gets rejected.

 

I think having substantiation of the purchase price alone is a good starting point as well as photo/video of the items for reference too. Although some pieces may be acquired cheaply and eventually appreciate in value, if you at minimum have what you paid for it cites for coverage, you're not worst off than losing it all.

 

Since artwork is one of a kind, but there is historical precedent of "similar" items of character, age and artist, but still more of a guide than a rule, the valuation can be very subjective which a lot of insurance companies may either balk at or say "if you want to value it at X, then you need to pay Y to cover it" and your premium will be reflective of your valuation.

 

If you're insuring for a certain incident whether fire, flood, damage, or theft, you can take preventative measures (like putting on a condom, so to speak, avoidance rather than risky assumptions). Maybe invest in a fire safe, get that bolted to the ground floor (it can't be on any 2nd level or higher, as it becomes a safety hazard if the house burns and the flooring gives and the safe plummets down). Consider off-site storage. Store the artwork in mylars and polybags, sealed. And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

 

You raise a lot of good points.

 

I guess my view is informed by my own collecting experiences and pursuits, and I assure you with the amount of work I have on my plate, the furthest from the truth is that I'm sharing this within a community of collectors for self-interested reasons.

 

I would immediately find it suspicious for an insurer to underwrite a five figure collection without some documentation or verification you are in ownership of said personal property. It isn't uncommon for insurers to ask for proof by way of pictures, video and/or to send one of their people to see your story checks out. The take away here is that the history of people abusing insurance in the past is what informs whatever diligence and verification steps they take in the present time.

 

So if an insurer just agrees with everything, sends you your insurance certificate and policy by mail without needing any proof or verification, the problems will arise when a loss claim is started. And the problems will present in the way of comparables that will be disimilar and not reflective of what you owned. This is a very complicated subject to describe, so I'll use the example of a slabbed comic. The adjuster comes back with an offer for a raw comic that is not in the same grade, nor is it certified. A dispute arises over this, and they ask for proof you "owned" such a book. So you quickly throw together a message with a link to the original auction and/or PayPal invoice. Even with this, they don't consider this proof you owned it and offer to pay a percentage of that purchase price, which was from 3 years ago, and the value of the item has increased since. Their approach is you are going to take what we are offering and you are going to like it.

 

IF a proper appraisal report had been drawn up, the report would dictate what you were owed, and in the case a significant passage of time had passed from when the report was drawn up, upon request an appraiser would provide an update on valuation before a cheque is written.

 

I had this very thing happen a few months ago, and I can explain a real life situation where this took place. My client contacted me after they had already started a claim for the loss of an item valued in the five figures. It was over a year from the time I did the report for him, but when he told me what the adjuster offered I immediately knew something was amiss. In less than 20 minutes, I came up with the correct comparable that should have been used, and the difference was mid four figures and 30% higher than what they had originally offered. I instructed him on the exact terminology he needed to use to make his case, and when he called, the adjuster immediately agreed and wrote the cheque.

 

If the fact pattern had been different in the way adjusters cherry-pick comparables that are contextually disimilar or too low in an effort to pay as little out as possible, I would say don't bother with a proper appraisal. But when insurance is already cold comfort for a loss situation, and you get beat up by an insurer that clearly doesn't want to pay what is deserved, you don't realize how important this all becomes when its too late and you've left yourself exposed.

 

As far as a subjective nature, this really depends. Do you want to be paid an old purchase price, or would you rather be reasonably accomodated to replace as close to the page you lost? If it's an interior page, do you ask for as similar a page in terms of the layout, characters appearing on the page, and from the same issue? If it's a cover, do you seek out an unpublished version, or if the artist is still alive, do you ask for the artist to recreate one for you? Do you anticipate for such a thing to happen, and in returning to the market, you realize you're at the mercy of a single dealer whose hoarded all that artists works or have to deal with a an artist or their agent whose expectations on their value has drastically changed from the time you originally commissioned them? The only way any of these scenarios of accomodation would be realistic is if an appraisal report anticipated a replacement cost valuation, and if you didn't have one drawn-up, none of these scenarios would be offered, and you'd be lucky to get a percentage of what you originally paid for the lost art using a retrodated valuation.

 

Those last paragraphs made me think about (yet another) thing I havent thought of before : are you saying that (perhaps I understood it incorrectly), if the value of an item goes up from the price you paid for it (and would need to pay the new price to realisticly replace the item), you can somehow factor that into the appraisal and/or your insurance ? I guess that it's possible that, at appraisal time, you try to look at current market value instead of what you paid for it in the past. But that might be hard to prove, even if you look at recent sales with tools like Comic Art Fans market data sales history [1], because of different opinions of what a 'similar item' as yours is ? And trying to predict the future value of an item at appraisal time seems even more difficult, if not impossible ?

 

[1]

http://www.comicartfans.com/MarketDataSearch.asp

[comicwiz]

Replacement cost coverage would have to pay to replace an asset at the present time, according to its current worth. So if you bought a cover 10 years ago and paid $4K for it then, and in the current market is worth $40K, and your loss occurred in the present time, you would be paid the current market worth at $40K.

 

Actual cash value only attempts to compensate you on what you have in the asset. It isn't suited to factor in appreciation, and usually when an insurer ask for a reciept of original purchase, it's because they have no intention of paying current market worth. It is not equal to replacement cost, and usually factors in depreciation.

 

Replacement cost coverage doesn't predict the future, but it does anticipate acquisition costs to make sure the insured is made as close to whole as possible. When a considerable amount of time passes from the time they last had their appraisal done, it's advisable the insured contacts their appraiser at the time they recieve an offer from an adjuster intending to pay out the claim to make sure the offer amount being offered reflects current market worth.

[zhamlau]

And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

 

Not intending this as a question directed at this statement, but it's reminded me to ask one to the whole group.

 

Has ANYBODY ever heard of ANY comic book art having been stolen from someone's house? I've heard cases of art having been taken from conventions, and even more often, portfolios of work lost at shows, in taxis, in transit, etc. But I have never heard of a single case of comic art having been taken from a residence during a theft. Wondering if anyone has an actual story where this has occurred? I've asked this before when people have brought up insuring against theft, but no one ever has come forward with any actual case of it happening. I'm just curious for posterity's sake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, of course not. In the home its probably framed meaning its large and hard to transport and not worth the risk or effort. Seriously, what are you going to do if you stole a very famous splash page or cover? Once its known its stolen to the collecting community, that piece has to be hidden from view for like a generation or two otherwise its gonna be "Hey, that's so-an-so's stolen flea-man cover!!!" the second it hits the show or auction circuit.

 

Of course stupid slightly evil will try and steal anything if given the chance, no matter how bad the risk-reward ration is. It's just your infinitely more likely to lose money on overpaying for a 4-5 figure piece of art than you are from it being stolen.

 

 

[MHoes]

And one of the biggest deterrents of theft is simply to "shut up" and don't talk about your possessions, don't post images of them and go "black hole collector" then it eliminates a lot of the risks associated of being a high profile target.

 

Not intending this as a question directed at this statement, but it's reminded me to ask one to the whole group.

 

Has ANYBODY ever heard of ANY comic book art having been stolen from someone's house? I've heard cases of art having been taken from conventions, and even more often, portfolios of work lost at shows, in taxis, in transit, etc. But I have never heard of a single case of comic art having been taken from a residence during a theft. Wondering if anyone has an actual story where this has occurred? I've asked this before when people have brought up insuring against theft, but no one ever has come forward with any actual case of it happening. I'm just curious for posterity's sake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, of course not. In the home its probably framed meaning its large and hard to transport and not worth the risk or effort. Seriously, what are you going to do if you stole a very famous splash page or cover? Once its known its stolen to the collecting community, that piece has to be hidden from view for like a generation or two otherwise its gonna be "Hey, that's so-an-so's stolen flea-man cover!!!" the second it hits the show or auction circuit.

 

Of course stupid slightly evil will try and steal anything if given the chance, no matter how bad the risk-reward ration is. It's just your infinitely more likely to lose money on overpaying for a 4-5 figure piece of art than you are from it being stolen.

 

I agree with the 'not easy to transport if its framed and large' part, and therefore less likely to be stolen. (Portfolios might be easier in that respect). I guess most thieves are more likely to go for cash, jewelry, a smartphone or laptop/tablet, etc. But at least for other types of art, hasn't there always been the black market for selling and owning stolen art ?

[MHoes]

Reading back the posts in this thread, I did some more thinking on 'replacement cost' valuation/insurance (instead of 'what you paid for it', in case the value of the piece(s) increased over time).

 

Over on ComicArtFans, there is a searchable 'market data sales history' [1] archive of pieces that were publicly sold at various auction sites (heritage, ebay, etc.). At first glance, that might be a good place to determine what a certain 'comparable' piece to yours might be worth today. What's good about it is that it has a demonstrable value of what pieces actually sold for, and not what a dealer might ask for it (but perhaps did not get).

 

But then the question of 'what is comparable' comes up: same artists ? same characters ? same era ? also cover/splash/panel-page ? And how do you convince your appraiser and insurer that what you feel is a comparable piece to yours (and what value it was sold for) is actually comparable to the piece you have ?

 

 

 

[1]

http://www.comicartfans.com/MarketDataSearch.asp

[alxjhnsn]

I have a standard answer for pricing art. Perhaps it is of some use.

 

 

You might want to explore the following resources:

• The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions - This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
  
• The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
  
• The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
• Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you.
  
• Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
  
• Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
  
• A topic on these CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
• The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.
  • The price information moved to The OA Elite blog. Click on the categories on the top of the page to see the updated list.
  • The discussion moved to Biggest OA Prices: The Blog

New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

 

For example,

• Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts.
  
• Take page layout - In general, you might say:
  Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel pages
  However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.
  
• Take pencillers- There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
  
• Take combinations of pencilers/inkers - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/X FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

 

Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

• Yahoo's comicart-l mailing list
  
• The Comic Art Fans website
  
• The CGC OA Board

 

The main points of physical contact are probably:

• San Diego Comic Con
  
• New York City Comic Con
  
• Comic Art Con
  
• Heroes Comic Con

 

One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.