427Impaler Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 23 hours ago, PovertyRow said: I cannot see that moving out of the purple label. Just the slight CT and the pieces added alone should keep it in Purple. Totally agree. Likely the book would need a full work over and resto removal. Grade would likely take a hit depending on piece full size and extent of ct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 16 hours ago, Mr.Fantastic said: Here is one with color touch & pieces added that is in a conserved holder. So, I don't know. On 3/25/2021 at 9:04 PM, Mr.Fantastic said: The book in question is a Slight A-1 with small amount of color touch on cover, pieces added to cover, cover reinforced and cleaned. As has been said, that book definitely has the wrong label. The mere presence of "pieces ADDED" is a sure fire resto maker let alone the other things like color touch. Unfortunately sometimes that happens - a wrong label is assigned. Like a Universal book with the notation "cover trimmed" which should have gone purple. Seeing that book out there and the possibility of someone buying it on the face it just being conserved is kind of scary. Folks really need to understand these criteria! Phill the Governor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 13 hours ago, 427Impaler said: That is a wrong label for sure. Color touch is not allowed in any shape or form the n conserved. Pieces added are ok, if not excessive, but absolutely have to be archival paper and adhesive, or leaf casting. Interestingly married pages are ok, so nice method to escape a green label, and even solvent bath is allowed. Grading I find is not like the grading you see on restored books, at least in my experience. Pieces added do not seem to help the grade as they would in resto, so grade improvement seems mostly driven by how well the wet/dry clean improve the overall appearance of the book, Are you sure about the "pieces added"? This is news to me. I know piece RE-ATTACHMENT, that is putting back a separated piece from the same book, but I was unaware that "pieces added" counted as well, since pieces added means a foreign piece of paper added to the book. CGC always made a big deal that one of the primary definitions of restoration is something ADDED to the book that was not originally there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
427Impaler Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, PovertyRow said: Are you sure about the "pieces added"? This is news to me. I know piece RE-ATTACHMENT, that is putting back a separated piece from the same book, but I was unaware that "pieces added" counted as well, since pieces added means a foreign piece of paper added to the book. CGC always made a big deal that one of the primary definitions of restoration is something ADDED to the book that was not originally there. I was a little surprised also but yes, as long as conservation grade material and/or leaf casting. Here is my AF15 and an X-men 1 that paper was added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, 427Impaler said: I was a little surprised also but yes, as long as conservation grade material and/or leaf casting. Here is my AF15 and an X-men 1 that paper was added This is fascinating. I had studied restoration in comics during the late 80s and early 90s' I even converted the bedroom of my 1-bedroom apartment into a resto studio with literally everything except a leaf casting setup. I even spent some time learning first hand from a professional restorer. I was only in it for the knowledge and only worked on junkers to see the impact, understand the processes and know how to identify various restoration techniques etc. So none of my work ever hit the market. Thankfully in those days there was a plethora of junkers for a buck or less - even GA books! ANYWAYS, I prefaced with that just so you know I am coming form a purely informational and not argumentative view. CGC has gone through a few iterations of this and since their resto/conserv criteria is still published here I have to assume it remains valid: https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/grading-scale/ - then click on RESTORATION at the top. It states that conservation allows "piece reattachment" but nothing about "pieces added". Yet as you say, leaf casting is allowed! This REALLY puzzles me since CGC made such a deal for so many years about the definition of resto centering on things ADDED to the book (and yes, 427, I notice you too were somewhat surprised by this). I remember getting into a fascinating discussion on the boards with Plitch a few years back about why document repair tape was looked at as restoration but rice/wheat paste on japan paper was looked at as conservation. My point was that all document repair tape was (the ARCHIVAL stuff) was like a pre-made paste/japan paper. Both archival. Both reversible. Now I am happy to see archival tape listed there in the accepted materials for Conservation. But I still don't see "pieces added" which freaks me out in the light of leaf casting acceptability!) What is this all coming to? Edited March 29, 2021 by PovertyRow removed a whole bunch of space at the bottom of the post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill the Governor Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 I am currently dealing with two books coming back that should be in Conserved holders, that instead have Restored labels. I will likely be starting a new thread on that, bringing up specific points that differentiate Conservation & Restoration, depending on how the situation pans out. I work on comics as a profession, and getting books into Conserved holders over the last two years has become a speciality of mine. I don't claim to know everything- but will say at this point I have dozens and dozens of examples of books that have ended up in Conserved holders and (up until today) 0 books that I thought would be Conserved that have ended up in Restored holders. I know what is allowed and what is not. CGC has a HUGE quality control problem that needs to be addressed -immediately. In addition, their grading criteria/rubric has possibly changed which is equally problematic. Either way, good times! Sauce Dog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill the Governor Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/29/2021 at 6:04 PM, PovertyRow said: But I still don't see "pieces added" which freaks me out in the light of leaf casting acceptability!) What is this all coming to? This is the exact issue I am dealing with on my submissions. For years now I have been doing standard conservation work on books (tear seals, spine split seals, reinforcement) and piece fills only at the spine area- because it was structural. Now, all of a sudden, my books are coming back in Restored holders. Talking to Matt Nelson about via it e-mail. I will be getting to the bottom of it. Mr.Fantastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
