Common 9.4 Silver vs Uncommon 7.0 Gold

[ft88]

Just wondering about collector habits. I'm looking at those ultra common Highgrade Silver Age issues like an Iron-man #1 or other 1968's and comparing them to a solid Golden Age book. A CGC 9.4 for Iron-man 1 is about $1200

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./itemdetail.as...TO%3D&id=600882

 

and pick your classic Golden Age book, say an All Winners 5 CGC 7.0

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./itemdetail.as...TO%3D&id=601013

 

I am all for 9.4's receiving multiples of guide etc. But what I don't get is that this book is so darn common with over 140 in CGC 9.4 or better while there are 11 total graded copies of AW #5. Don't get me wrong, both are sweet books but with neither being some ultra key or of historical importance books like the All Winners just out class the Iron Man #1. How many All Winners #5 even exist above VG, 50? 100? How many Iron Mans in VF or better 1000, 10000? I'll grant the demand for the IM#1 is greater but when does a 10 - 100 fold supply not impact the price.

 

I don't collect either book but I know which one I would rather own if I could only pick one.

[adamstrange]

Just wondering about collector habits. I'm looking at those ultra common Highgrade Silver Age issues like an Iron-man #1 or other 1968's and comparing them to a solid Golden Age book. A CGC 9.4 for Iron-man 1 is about $1200

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./itemdetail.as...TO%3D&id=600882

 

and pick your classic Golden Age book, say an All Winners 5 CGC 7.0

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./itemdetail.as...TO%3D&id=601013

 

I am all for 9.4's receiving multiples of guide etc. But what I don't get is that this book is so darn common with over 140 in CGC 9.4 or better while there are 11 total graded copies of AW #5. Don't get me wrong, both are sweet books but with neither being some ultra key or of historical importance books like the All Winners just out class the Iron Man #1. How many All Winners #5 even exist above VG, 50? 100? How many Iron Mans in VF or better 1000, 10000? I'll grant the demand for the IM#1 is greater but when does a 10 - 100 fold supply not impact the price.

 

I don't collect either book but I know which one I would rather own if I could only pick one.

 

ssssshhhhh!!!!

[PovertyRow]

I would think it simply comes down to the ratio of SA collectors to GA collectors. There are a lot more SA collectors out there, whose numbers tend to absorb the HG books. And GA collectors are often a lot less grade conscious than SA collectors.

 

Now a 1942 Timely superhero in 7.0 is certainly a highly desireable book. But I have to wonder if your "average" GA collectgor would rather have that one, and also slabbed so it cannopt be read, over, say, a solid VG unslabbed for a lot less money.

 

As far as my own pre-code collecting goes, a Fine is a thing of beauty. Given the choice between a Fine and a higher grade pre-code, I will usually go for the Fine because I know I can use the extra money for more books. I DO have some pretty HG pre-codes in my collection but most of them were bought well under guide.

 

Such is one GA collector's perception.

[ft88]

Let me know when you want to down grade your VF Golden Age for some VG's. I'll trade you 3 for 1.

[PovertyRow]

Let me know when you want to down grade your VF Golden Age for some VG's. I'll trade you 3 for 1.

 

I said Fines, young sprout! Fines! And if they were Fines I may well take you up on that. But that have to be pre-code horror!

[Forbush-Man]

I was born the same year that the Silver Age began. I grew up reading first DC then Marvels, dreamed of owning them all; all the Kirby issues, all the Ditko's,....

So how is it that nothing is more fun for me these days then finding a nice Golden Age book (and by "Nice" I mean anywhere from VGto a VF)!

 

To me it's like this, I can find just about any Silver Age book I set my mind to, and in almost any condition from Good to NM-, sometimes NM/NM+. Golden Age is a different animal, more illusive. I'd take a F/VF Golden Age over most any NM Silver Age anyday.

 

Between the NM Ironman and the All-Winners F/VF, the All-Winners is the best buy! Just MHO.

[skybolt]

This is a good question. For me it all comes down to scarcity. If I had a choice between the 2 books, I'd probably go for the All Winners #5 CGC 7.0 instead of Iron Man # CGC 9.4. My main reasoning with collecting GA books is that if you miss the boat on a nice book on your want list, chances are you may have to wait another year or two for the book to turn up again. With most late SA books in NM- and below condition, you only have to wait another month or week for the book to show up on a couple different sites.

 

I actually picked up an Iron Man #1 CGC 9.4 two years ago for about $750 since my funds weren't tight at the time. I wanted that book in high grade so I picked it up on Ebay (I've also got a 9.0 copy). However, since my collection has grown and my budget dwindled, I'm more inclined to spend my money on nice FN to VF GA books.

 

Does that mean I like GA Captain America #10 more than ASM #3, of course not. Spider-Man has always been my favorite super-hero character, and will continue to be. My reasoning is solely based on the fact that if I really wanted to complete a nice VF to VF/NM run of ASM, I could always sell my GA collection and perform this task fairly easily. I can't do that with many GA DC, Timely, Fox Feature Syndicate or Fiction House books.

 

If it was a fictional world, and only a few copies of any major SA key existed in FN and above condition, I'd be one of the first people chasing after those books.

[sfilosa]

You pose a very good question:

 

So quick points (some of which have been stated):

 

1) There are more Marvel Collectors then any other type of Comic Collector

 

2) There are collectors who LOVE High Grade (I'm one of them), therefore the NM quality of a book, supersedes a rarer book in a lower grade in many cases.

 

3) There are completionist, with many of those being MARVEL collectors. There are not as many completionist for GA books or other publishers in the SA.

 

4) Speculators / Investors will buy IM #1, looking for a profit, where as most will not buy GA. The reason is that it's hard to get a good deal on a scarcer book, and determining true market value is also hard. That's why speculators buy

SA/BA/Modern books that are very HG (i.e. Hulk #181, Ultimate Spider-Man #1, etc.) because they have a better feel for market value (and therefore know a good deal when they see one).

 

5) As has been stated in almost every Overstreet Guide Report for years, Mid- Grade books are the toughest to sell as they are too expensive for the completionist (regardless of grade) collector and the HG (got to have one of the best) collector.

[drbanner]

For my personal collection, at equivalent prices I would never buy a 9.4+ Silver Age book over a nice mid-grade Timely or LB Cole book I'm looking for. I've modified my collecting habits recently to shy away from buying common books (as pointed out above, 98% of Marvel SA books are available in just about every grade from Good to NM), and focus on tough to find books. For what I collect, this means GA Schomburg/Cole books and HG late silver/early bronze DC's.

 

Mid-grade GA books sell very well at or even above guide for most in-demand books (Timely's, keys, classic covers), whereas mid-grade silver and bronze sell only when discounted well below guide (except keys).

[gozer]

 

>> I'll grant the demand for the IM#1 is greater

 

And there you have it. It's not that the demand is bigger, it's that it's

a LOT bigger. Super jumbo bigger.

 

Look in the CGC forum for buying/selling ... it's 90% (or 99% ?) silver age.

 

 

>> For me it all comes down to scarcity. If I had a choice between the

>> 2 books, I'd probably go for the ...

 

It's also what interests you. For a choice between those two books, I would

pass on them both. They're both nice, but not my cup of tea.

 

Much of the discussion on these forums forgets that this is a hobby, and

treats buying books as an investment decision. For those that ARE

investing in comics, fine. But aren't most of us buying comics because we

LIKE them?

 

 

>> My main reasoning with collecting GA books is that if you miss the

>> boat on a nice book ... you may have to wait another year or two

 

Or you may have to wait another decade! That's the obvious reason GA

collectors aren't as picky -- they can't afford to be. Ultra high grade SA is

available in quantity. Reasonably high grade GA is rare. But that's part

of the fun.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

gozer

-------------------------------------

Luckily, Alfalfa was an orphan owned by the studio.

[skybolt]

Good points sfilosa.

 

I guess each person is different. I would love to own a HG collection of SA and BA books. My jaw drops everytime someone posts a 9.6 copy of an SA book. That being said, here's the rational I use to avoid paying multiples of guide for a book that's rare in 9.6 and above grade, but plentiful in 9.2 and below.

 

I figure that if I have a budget of $1,500, and notice 3 books on Ebay that I'd love to add to my collection. The first 2 books are Sensation Comics #49 and #50 in VF condition (priced at $350 each), and the other one is a gorgeous 9.6 copy of an SA ASM book (priced at $1500). Then I check other web sites and find a 9.4 copy of the same ASM book priced at $750. I compare the two books, and find that the 9.4 copy has one slightly noticeable stress mark along the spine. Now I could either purchase the 9.6 copy or buy the other 3 books with the same amount of money. To me that one stress mark is not worth more than 2 semi-HG GA books. Also, if I see another GA book that I want to own, then I may drop down to a 9.2 or 9.0 copy of that ASM issue.

 

This is the main reason why I barely own any 9.4 and higher CGC graded books past 1976. I always compare the difference of defects when determining which books to buy. Unfortunately, with GA books you don't have the option to pick bewteen two similar grades of the same book. You either have to shell out a lot of money for VF/NM copy or settle for the VG/FN copy on Metro or something.

[skybolt]

I meant to say pre 1976.

[*paull*]

Let's not forget that there are many, many high grade copies of the 1968 books (IM1, IMSM1, NF1, SM1, etc.) out there. I would take the All-Winners in a heartbeat over Iron Man 1. I like 60's Marvels, but there is simply no comparison. I'd [#@$%!!!] all over that Iron Man 1, too.

[the blob]

i followed this logic when i decided to switch my "larger" money purchases to primarily GA books... not that I'm a big spender, more like stuff that costs $100-600. not that i don't buy SA, but I've limited it to the occasional "deal" on a slabbed spensive book or inexpensive raw stuff in bulk. occasionally I'll see that raw $15-$30 book and go for it.

 

right now I'm not buying much with baby en route and needing to buy a new home eventually, just cheap stuff, although i did buy a $500 or so slabbed 1930s GA book recently because (a) it's kinda cool to own a #1 or #2 of a title that went on for many years and (b) it was at a nice discount off guide.

 

along those same lines, i also got more interested in original art due to its rarity/uniqueness and it being less rigidly tied to some sort of "guide" price -- sometimes it's nice to say to myself, "that's an interesting page, I'm willing to pay $50 for that" -- and, by golly, it's worth $50 to me and THAT SAME PAGE won't be showing up for $10 next week (unless I'm selling it)!

[Aman619]

Let's not forget that there are many, many high grade copies of the 1968 books (IM1, IMSM1, NF1, SM1, etc.) out there. I would take the All-Winners in a heartbeat over Iron Man 1. I like 60's Marvels, but there is simply no comparison. I'd [#@$%!!!] all over that Iron Man 1, too.

 

thats a key point in this comparison. Those books you mention are VERY common, even in HG and it beats me why their prices stay so high.

[sfilosa]

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Let's not forget that there are many, many high grade copies of the 1968 books (IM1, IMSM1, NF1, SM1, etc.) out there. I would take the All-Winners in a heartbeat over Iron Man 1. I like 60's Marvels, but there is simply no comparison. I'd [#@$%!!!] all over that Iron Man 1, too.

 

 

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thats a key point in this comparison. Those books you mention are VERY common, even in HG and it beats me why their prices stay so high.

 

I admit I thought the same thing to years ago. And I can't believe an Ultimate Spider-Man White Variant cover that's so rare (yeah right) can still get $1K in 9.8.

 

But the one thing to remember about the census is this. THOSE books (i.e Iron Man #1, Cap. Amer. #100, etc) where ALWAYS OUT THERE. Just because they are being submitted in large quantities, doesn't mean they are being pulled from a box that hasn't been opened in 30 years. Collectors always had them, and are now submitting them.

 

The demand for those books is obviously great.

 

And scarcity DOES NOT create DEMAND.

[skybolt]

And scarcity DOES NOT create DEMAND.

 

Try explaining that to Ian and his Superman/Bradman book.

[Aman619]

doesn't mean they are being pulled from a box that hasn't been opened in 30 years.

 

ummm, maybe it does? Ive seen a few longboxes like that of that months new #1s. Those were also the first comics I puposely bought extra copies of. I know I was not alone!!

[the blob]

"Ive seen a few longboxes like that of that months new #1s. Those were also the first comics I puposely bought extra copies of. I know I was not alone!!"

 

I keep on hearing this, and I'm sure it was the case 30 years ago, but don't you think whoever had that long box or IM #1s tried to blow them out 10-12 years ago when, to his utter amazement, he could suddenly get $300-$400 each for them? Who would have ever thunk that crazy people would be blowing $1K+ on that book?

 

I'm not talking about a generic thor or other issue that someone may have speculated on and maybe it really has taken them this long to unload them at $20 or whatever a pop, but a NM IM #1 has been somewhat easy to unload for a nice price over the last 10-12 years.

 

It doesn't impact the # of them out there, but does impact the notion that several guys are sitting on 500 copies each of that issue.

[ft88]

I specifically compared these two books as they seem to have equal desirability for those who collect in the repective genre: Golden Age Timely vs Silver Age Marvels. Neither book is an ultra key but they both have major cool points to any collector. But an Iron Man 1 in 9.4 is a whole lot different than an FF 49 or 50 in 9.2 for example. (not a 48 which is both an ultra key and extremely common)

 

http://comiclink.com/./itemdetail.asp?ba...g%3D2&id=593290

 

So you basically have a similar comic for the respective collector. And the demand for the FF 50 has to be similar to the IM#1 yet the supply is 10 times less in grade.

 

Carry this over to Golden Age and I have to figure that there just isn't any demand. Any demand whatsover and the price skyrockets.

 

My only other theorey is that there is basically a top for any comic that isn't some ultra key or in ultra high grade (or both). Lets say that price is about $1000. You just can't get more than that for a nice Golden Age less than VF nor a 1968 #1 in 9.4. I'll still take the All Winners though.