Is anything well made anymore? 0

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, comicwiz said:

Technology and human progression can be an empty and shallow promise when you look how industry monetizes on cost-cutting. Build something to last too long, and it puts you out of business. If you build it cheap and it falls apart in a year or two, they'll come back for more

One of my hobbies is metal detecting and I've recovered archaic copper culture artifacts that were cold forged, hand hammered, and I'm sure the projectiles could still be thrown and stay intacts 6,000-8,000 years after they were made.

Currency from over 50 years, and some that are a hundred, two hundred and even three hundred years old come out of the ground almost looking new.

I dig pennies, dimes, nickels, and quarters from the last 30-40 years and they are barely recognizable. Some aren't even older than 20 years old and they have so much corrosion on them you can't recycle them through bank coin machines that take them out of circulation because they don't fit through the slits that sort them. It's a sad statement on human progression when the currency we  use isn't even made to last more than fifty years.

Interesting point. I used to work next to a Rolls Royce repair facility that specialized in older models from the last 100 years. They would literally bang out a fender with a hammer from a plate of steel to fit a car. Good luck finding a craftsman that can do that anymore.

[VintageComics]

22 minutes ago, Artboy99_9 said:

I believe it is based on the manufacturers more than the customers. I still want that quality product that will last forever. The companies want a repeat customer spending their dollars buying the new thing over and over.

You may want a quality product but if it costs double to make would you be willing to pay that? Most would rather take their chances IMO and take the cheaper product.

[kav]

If it lasts triple long I'll pay double price

[VintageComics]

9 minutes ago, kav said:

If it lasts triple long I'll pay double price

Mercedes Benz used to have a million mile guarantee on some parts (bumpers, control arms, etc). No matter how old the car was, if it broke they'd replace it free of charge. They did away with that policy over a decade ago.

[Foley]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

The problem is that there is a direct correlation between price and quality. If you want better you have to be willing to pay for better, but most people won't.

This is very true. There are still products that are extremely well crafted and will last a lifetime, but they come at a huge premium. Take watches for example. The big 3 Swiss companies Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, and Audemars Piguet are still hand assembled and finished and will last generations. 

That being said, an "entry level" watch from any of these companies will still run you $20,000. That's a huge premium for quality. 

[Bronty]

OK, but I'm not sure that's the best example as there's a difference between a luxury good, and something that's well made.  

I think Roy's point is if you want something built like a tank, you'll have to pay double, and nobody want's to pay double.    A good watch that will last a long time can be had for a lot less than 20k... that's luxury/exclusivity pricing. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Bronty

[VintageComics]

7 minutes ago, Bronty said:

OK, but I'm not sure that's the best example as there's a difference between a luxury good, and something that's well made.  

I think Roy's point is if you want something built like a tank, you'll have to pay double, and nobody want's to pay double.    A good watch that will last a long time can be had for a lot less than 20k... that's luxury/exclusivity pricing. 

Agreed. With luxury pricing there is a lot of prestige built into the price.

And double may not be the actual cost, I was just trying to make a point.

If you want a tank of a car or a toaster that will last for 2 decades, or any other bulletproof item (the way it used to be in many areas) you're going to have to look to pay through the nose (relatively speaking compared to what we're used to paying today for items).

[Bronty]

Sure, I get that, I'm not holding you to double  I just thought it was a reasonable approximation

[Foley]

13 minutes ago, Bronty said:

OK, but I'm not sure that's the best example as there's a difference between a luxury good, and something that's well made.  

True, maybe not the best, but aren't luxury goods an example of the correlation between quality and price? (Roy's point)

Genuine question btw, I'm no economics expert, but I assume that luxury goods and superior goods became such because of their quality.

Edit: Just saw your full reply quoted by Roy and it provides clarification about exclusivity pricing

Edited February 10, 2017 by Foley

[Bronty]

11 minutes ago, Foley said:

True, maybe not the best, but aren't luxury goods an example of the correlation between quality and price? (Roy's point)

Genuine question btw, I'm no economics expert, but I assume that luxury goods and superior goods became such because of their quality.

nah not really.    I mean of course they are high quality but you are paying, partly, because you can and/or to show others that you can.

In return you expect the item to be fabulous, sure, but there's only so fabulous you can make a toaster.  

For example, since I like boobs, let's use victoria's secret as an example.   They could make the greatest bra of all time and it would still only be, what, a $500 item?    Yet they have made "$10 million dollar bras" by taking a $50 bra and putting $9,999,950 of diamonds on it.   

If you want a $10 million toaster, its not going to be because it toasts bread so damn great that you get an orgasm with every slice.   Its because they are actively making it expensive by choosing the materials that are the most costly, not necessarily the most functional.

A gold and diamond studded rolex @30k isn't any better of a timepiece and isn't any "better made" (in terms of quality of construction) if you take away the gold and diamonds and offer it for 5k. 

So you have at least a couple things in play with luxury goods that don't pertain to quality of construction

a) overkill on the fine/expensive materials

b) high margins to cover small quantity runs, high advertising, exclusivity, image

Edited February 10, 2017 by Bronty

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, kav said:

If it lasts triple long I'll pay double price

Steak for two for one.

 

[Foley]

9 minutes ago, Foley said:

True, maybe not the best, but aren't luxury goods an example of the correlation between quality and price? (Roy's point)

Genuine question btw, I'm no economics expert, but I assume that luxury goods and superior goods became such because of their quality.

 

4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

nah not really.    I mean of course they are high quality but you are paying, partly, because you can and/or to show others that you can.

In return you expect the item to be fabulous, sure, but there's only so fabulous you can make a toaster.  

For example, since I like boobs, let's use victoria's secret as an example.   They could make the greatest bra of all time and it would still only be, what, a $500 item?    Yet they have made "$10 million dollar bras" by taking a $50 bra and putting $9,999,950 of diamonds on it.   

If you want a $10 million toaster, its not going to be because it toasts bread so great that you get an orgasm with every slice.   Its because they are actively making it expensive.

A gold and diamond studded rolex @30k isn't any better of a timepiece if you take away the gold and diamonds and offer it for 5k. 

Thanks for the clarification Bronty, that makes perfect sense.

[the blob]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

There are going to be exceptions but I was speaking generally. Japanese (and Japanese based) cars from the 2000's seem to be rock solid. Louise's Honda took a 200,000 Mile bashing  before needing serious engine work. Toyotas from the same era have a good reputation. But it's my understanding that even those cars which were the 'new bulletproof' have declined quality. They got what they wanted - a foothold on the world stage (Toyota is #4 in the world behind the big US 3 now) and they likely scaled back on quality to collect the cash based on an old reputation .

I know, everything is indeed crapola.  Personally, I am shocked my car hasn't died.  So much clothing is made like krap.  But then again, what do we expect?  In 1980 a new pair of Levis cost $25 or so, which was real money then.  And my brother would wear the krap out of it and then I would before it started falling apart.  Last pair I bought I got from TJ Maxx for $15!! (Sure, I know, "retail" is much higher, like $50-60, but now everything is deep discounted at three million discount stores, so who pays retail?)  But it's already showing wear.

Chinese slave labor and poor quality have prevented a lot of prices from going up much, but what we have is junk.

[the blob]

19 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Agreed. With luxury pricing there is a lot of prestige built into the price.

And double may not be the actual cost, I was just trying to make a point.

If you want a tank of a car or a toaster that will last for 2 decades, or any other bulletproof item (the way it used to be in many areas) you're going to have to look to pay through the nose (relatively speaking compared to what we're used to paying today for items).

the luxury stuff isn't luxury anymore.  i bought my wife a furla wallet.."retail $200"..century 21 had it for $80... it is pretty, but the workmanship isn't there. i know it will fall apart in 2 years or less. Made in China.

15 years ago I bought her a lovely Furla bag from Century 21 for $75 (also, retail was $200 or something).  That was well made (in Italy), quality leather.  She still uses it.  It is still in great shape.

I don't want to knock China, those folks are busting their humps, but stuff is made over there to be made as cheaply as possible and quality is like #19 on the list of priorities.

 

(If you sense a theme here, yes, I am a bargain hunter)

Edited February 10, 2017 by the blob

[Bronty]

I wouldn't call a $80 wallet (high enough price point as that is) 'luxury' per se... just nice. 

I'm thinking the 8k alligator handbags for the ladies, you know?

[The Black Hand ®]

4 hours ago, VintageComics said:

I'd say "NO" emphatically. They DON'T build things like they used to.

Remember all those companies that were known for outstanding quality? They no longer exist. And why? Because the general public doesn't want to buy a car or a piece of clothing and wear it forever. They want something new and shiny every week / month / year.

I worked for Mercedes Benz for 11 years and for 11 year prior worked alongside Benz / Porsche / BMA / Rolls / Jaguar, etc. Nothing is built like it was decades ago. You used to buy a car that would actually last a lifetime. Now it's designed to last 4 years. I don't care what the manufacturers say.

The general public 'say' they want quality but what they mean is that they don't really want to pay for it. They just want it at the cheapest possible price. The problem is that there is a direct correlation between price and quality. If you want better you have to be willing to pay for better, but most people won't. They'll just stop buying the more expensive product and then the manufacturer will have to drop the price by cutting corners to stay competitive and voila, back where we started.

We're a short sighted society.

This

[Artboy99]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

You may want a quality product but if it costs double to make would you be willing to pay that? Most would rather take their chances IMO and take the cheaper product.

It is no longer an option is my point. Manufacturers build products that are cheaper or no longer long lasting because they want you to buy another one.

[NoMan]

2 hours ago, Foley said:

This is very true. There are still products that are extremely well crafted and will last a lifetime, but they come at a huge premium. Take watches for example. The big 3 Swiss companies Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, and Audemars Piguet are still hand assembled and finished and will last generations. 

That being said, an "entry level" watch from any of these companies will still run you $20,000. That's a huge premium for quality. 

Or you could buy a Grand Seiko that's completely handmade for around 5k.  Sorry, I'm a Grand Seiko fanboy

[Paddy_McShillihan]

Go buy a Japanese chef knife ... 

they're  well made 

[the blob]

12 hours ago, chrisco37 said:

  No wonder you still have the car.   I put 900+/- per week on mine. 

I think I am at 110,000 miles.  Brooklyn to Manhattan is like a 15 or 20 mile round trip.  We do it 3 or 4 times a week.  Then I meander around locally.  I have to visit prisons upstate for work and those can be 150-300 mile trips, but i try to do it as little as I can.  I live in the city and I commute on the subway.  But I do hit about 970 pot holes in that 15-20 mile round trip, I figure those are worse than easy straight highway miles.

The guy who owned the car before us was like you.  Almost 35K miles in one year.  I physically could not drive 900 miles a week.  My hip starts hurting after 60-90 minutes.

Edited February 11, 2017 by the blob