General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[nik]

Personally, I think GPA is not the end all with coming up for a price. Its an avg but QP and PQ plays a huge role towards the book for sale.

[jimjum12]

Personally, I think GPA is not the end all with coming up for a price. Its an avg but QP and PQ plays a huge role towards the book for sale.

 

So true....depending on scarcity in grade and the general state of the market,GPA high can just be another point on an upward trend.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Personally, I think GPA is not the end all with coming up for a price. Its an avg but QP and PQ plays a huge role towards the book for sale.

 

So true....depending on scarcity in grade and the general state of the market,GPA high can just be another point on an upward trend.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Hey I agree too, but like i said it is just a guide as OSPG is.

It provides valuable info that sometimes OSPG does not take into account.

 

R.

 

 

[jimjum12]

Personally, I think GPA is not the end all with coming up for a price. Its an avg but QP and PQ plays a huge role towards the book for sale.

 

So true....depending on scarcity in grade and the general state of the market,GPA high can just be another point on an upward trend.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Hey I agree too, but like i said it is just a guide as OSPG is.

It provides valuable info that sometimes OSPG does not take into account.

 

R.

 

 

....and in many cases info that OSPG doesn't even know about.I love the GPA feature on the Heritage site.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[joe_collector]

GPA is a record of CGC sales yes, but that is because CGC grading is trusted.

 

Gimme a break. Label chasers and registry addicts regularly pay nosebleed prices for HG CGC books, and raw copies sell for nowhere near the same amounts. That's a fact, and I have never, ever, ever seen a common Byrne X-Men raw copy selling for thousands of dollars, but some CGC copies do.

 

And using Zilla as an example to support your specious claims is hilarious, as everyone knows his buyers are ingesting pure crack.

 

GPA measures and reports on CGC sales, so therefore it's only valid for CGC copies. How this can be difficult for some to grasp is beyond me.

[joe_collector]

Another great example is Podboy's recent Timely sales thread. He is getting multiples of guide for mid grade raw GA books. Go figure...they are at GPA prices.

 

So Podboy actively promoted his raw sales using stated GPA averages?

 

I looked over his entire thread, and didn't see anything like that. Do you have a link?

[drbanner]

Quoting GPA prices in relation to raw comics is an apples to oranges comparison. GPA doesn't claim to be reflective of the raw market nor do they try to be. It's essentially a slabbed price guide. If you want to benefit from GPA prices then slab the comic...not try to reflect slabbed prices in any raw you're selling...

100% agreed, as not only is GPA totally useless for raw books, it can cause confusion from buyers who may believe they're getting CGC books.

 

I see GPA and automatically think CGC.

You guys are being a little extreme (as usual). GPA is a record of CGC sales yes, but that is because CGC grading is trusted. If you buy raw books from a trusted seller/grader then GPA is a great indicator of what a book will fetch whether raw or slabbed. Look at Zilla4 auctions or check out prices of some of the hi end dealers etc. They will ALL reflect prices in the GPA range.

So even though GPA is technically a guide for CGC books it is more accurate than than the overstreet most of the time when dealing with hi grade books that are desireable.

 

Another great example is Podboy's recent Timely sales thread. He is getting multiples of guide for mid grade raw GA books. Go figure...they are at GPA prices.

 

Sorry but I think you guys are off base on this one.

 

GPA is just as important a guide if not more so than OSPG.

 

R.

Gotta go with Roy here, much ado about nothing guys. IMHO, it's entirely appropriate for a seller to quote GPA prices for any book, and by doing so he is in no way, shape, or form implying that the book is slabbed. You can be sure that if a book is slabbed, the seller is going to note it in the 1st place!

 

GPA is hugely relevant to the raw market, in fact, this is the 1st year since I don't know when that I didn't even bother to buy an OS guide. For HG books, due diligence leads me to always look at GPA , whether buying or selling, raw or slabbed. (thumbs u

[joe_collector]

GPA is hugely relevant to the raw market

 

So, are they now tracking raw sales?

[cloudofwit]

GPA is a record of CGC sales yes, but that is because CGC grading is trusted.

 

Gimme a break. Label chasers and registry addicts regularly pay nosebleed prices for HG CGC books, and raw copies sell for nowhere near the same amounts. That's a fact, and I have never, ever, ever seen a common Byrne X-Men raw copy selling for thousands of dollars, but some CGC copies do.

 

And using Zilla as an example to support your specious claims is hilarious, as everyone knows his buyers are ingesting pure crack.

 

GPA measures and reports on CGC sales, so therefore it's only valid for CGC copies. How this can be difficult for some to grasp is beyond me.

 

But the common Byrne X-Mens you're referring to are likely the 9.8 or highers--which aren't all that common (I haven't checked the census, maybe there's tons, but I doubt it).

 

As to Zilla, the scary thing is these folks aren't on crack, so some other phenomena is going on.

 

But I think you're falling for the either-or fallacy. It doesn't have to be either GPA for CGC or not at all; using it as a barometer for raw isn't as invalid as you're making it seem.

[VintageComics]

 

And using Zilla as an example to support your specious claims is hilarious, as everyone knows his buyers are ingesting pure crack.

 

 

OK Mr. Sensationalism here we go.

 

With literally 1000's of people watching and 100's of people bidding it must stand to reason that at least a few people bid Zilla's books up because they thought they were worth the $$. Why?? Because they know that an ASM in the #60's will fetch $300+ whether slabbed or raw in 9.4 or greater. How do they know? Because there are companys like GPA track this. Now granted OSPG only tracks to 9.2 so usually 2 X guide is adequate but where do we go for more info to confirm this belief? ahhh...there it is. GPA. Trying to discredit the bidders does not negate the fact that GPA is an accurate guide for hi grade books where OSPG fails to track them.

 

 

GPA measures and reports on CGC sales, so therefore it's only valid for CGC copies. How this can be difficult for some to grasp is beyond me

 

What is difficult to grasp is how you accuse people of putting words in your mouth but then do it to others.

 

GPA data is only valid for CGC copies but if you are buying a book that you know will grade similar to a CGC copy (hence the comment I made about trusting a seller's grading) then why is it wrong to use GPA as a guide. Some sellers will not CGC out of principle. Does that mean because he is asking 2 times guide (but still a steal if the book is worth 3-4 times guide acc. to GPA) should you pass on the book? Probably not....

 

 

So Podboy actively promoted his raw sales using stated GPA averages?

 

I looked over his entire thread, and didn't see anything like that. Do you have a link?

 

JC, besides putting words into people's mouths you must be some stubborn, hard edged azzed birth sign like an Ares where there is absolutely no grey area. You are so black and white that you miss the point.

 

I did not say that Podboy quoted GPA, but his raw books sold at or near GPA prices. I know because I bought one and almost two. So GPA in this case is a valid GUIDE for selling raw books. In his case 1.5 X guide for low/mid grade Timelys was a good price. You would never know this reading OSPG.

 

I only said GPA was a guide for guaging fair market value. What you decide to pay is up to you. I think for a hi grade Spiderman collector Mike's books where priced more than fair. The proof is in the fact that he sold pretty much every book in his thread.

 

 

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

The fact remains that GPA measures CGC sales, which anyone with a brain must admit, are a combination of many different factors - label chasers, registry hounds, speculators, collectors, etc.

 

When you're talking raw, a lot of those potential buyers get tossed out, and therefore make across-the-board data comparison impossible.

 

The only time GPA data should be used to promote and sell raw books, is in cases like Roy's, where he makes a "money back guarantee" if a book fails to grade X.X when submitted to CGC.

[joe_collector]

I did not say that Podboy quoted GPA, but his raw books sold at or near GPA prices.

 

Who cares? The vast majority of other CGC forum sales get no where near GPA totals. Does that automatically make my point valid?

 

We're not talking about what a book sells for, but the ACT of using GPA data to PROMOTE your raw comic sales threads.

 

Podboy didn't do this, so why are you dragging him into this?

[cd4ever]

The fact remains that GPA measures CGC sales, which anyone with a brain must admit, are a combination of many different factors - label chasers, registry hounds, speculators, collectors, etc.

 

When you're talking raw, a lot of those potential buyers get tossed out, and therefore make across-the-board data comparison impossible.

 

The only time GPA data should be used to promote and sell raw books, is in cases like Roy's, where he makes a "money back guarantee" if a book fails to grade X.X when submitted to CGC.

Just to become even more unpopular, I'm going to mostly agree with Vince here. I do not agree with using GPA to price raw books. Obviously people do it and clearly those books sell. But GPA prices are strictly for slabbed books, and takes into account the guaranteed grade, the cost of getting the book slabbed and the month(s)-long wait to get the book back. That's what the buyer is paying for. Or at least that's how I see it.

 

I also get frustrated whan a formerly slabbed but now raw book is sold using GPA prices. Again, the cost of the slab and the wait time needs to be factored in, not to mention the integrity of the CGC grade has been compromised and there's no guarantee it's still that grade anymore.

 

Let the pile on begin.

[VintageComics]

I did not say that Podboy quoted GPA, but his raw books sold at or near GPA prices.

 

Who cares? The vast majority of other CGC forum sales get no where near GPA totals. Does that automatically make my point valid?

 

We're not talking about what a book sells for, but the ACT of using GPA data to PROMOTE your raw comic sales threads.

 

Podboy didn't do this, so why are you dragging him into this?

 

TO SHOW THAT GPA PRICES ARE RELEVANT WHETHER THE BOOK IS SLABBED OR NOT!

 

Let's say there are two ways to cite value of a book that is outside the scope of OSPG:

 

1) Acc. to GPA a 9.4 sells for $150 or

 

2) other 9.4 copies have sold for $150

 

would there be a difference? Is the first example rendered invalid because GPA was cited as opposed to some obscure/mystic/fake sales data which carries more weight?

 

C'mon JC....it's just a guide. And an accurate one at that.

 

R.

 

 

[thirdgreenham]

At any time, a seller can quote GPA prices and try to get GPA prices on his books. Shoot, the seller can ask triple GPA if he wants, but it doesn't mean that he's going to get it. If you trust that seller's grading, then you may consider buying books at GPA/near GPA/over GPA prices. As a buyer, if you want a book bad enough, you pay the price. If you think asking GPA prices for raw books is insane, then just don't buy and move along. Quite simple, actually.

 

Andy

[VintageComics]

John most of the time the "now raw, previously slabbed book" is sold with a slight discount to take into account grading costs. Again, the final price will only be accurate if the seller is an accurate grader.

 

It's just a guide people.....one of many.

GPa is not always accurate either. I have had dealers buy books from me at GPA or higher because they can get even more money. All power to them.

 

 

R.

 

 

[joe_collector]

But GPA prices are strictly for slabbed books, and takes into account the guaranteed grade, the cost of getting the book slabbed and the month(s)-long wait to get the book back. That's what the buyer is paying for.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Annihilus]

At any time a seller can quote GPA prices and try to get GPA prices on his books. Shoot, the seller can ask triple GPA if he wants, but it doesn't mean that he's going to get it. If you trust that seller's grading, then you may consider buying books at GPA/near GPA/over GPA prices. As a buyer, if you want a book bad enough, you pay the price. If you think asking GPA prices for raw books is insane, then just don't buy and move along. Quite simple, actually.

 

Andy

 

Gotta go with you here. Providing the buyer has enough details to make an informed decision and wants the book badly enough, it doesn't really matter where the price comes from does it?

[joe_collector]

At any time a seller can quote GPA prices and try to get GPA prices on his books. Shoot, the seller can ask triple GPA if he wants, but it doesn't mean that he's going to get it. If you trust that seller's grading, then you may consider buying books at GPA/near GPA/over GPA prices. As a buyer, if you want a book bad enough, you pay the price. If you think asking GPA prices for raw books is insane, then just don't buy and move along.

 

Oh boy, the old "move along" strawman is trotted out - why not take your own advice and "move along"?

 

I think the inability to understand what we're talking about is the main problem. A lot of people on here are failing to grasp it.

 

People can ask whatever price they want for their books. Price a Howard the Duck #1 VG at $1,000,000 for all I care. $2 million, $10 million - who cares?

 

What we are attempting to discuss is the use of GPA data to PROMOTE a RAW comic listing, giving CGC data and then using those prices to hype/sell your non-CGC book. That has NOTHING to do with the price asked, and everything to do with providing historical CGC sales data when you're not even selling a CGC book.

[VintageComics]

At any time a seller can quote GPA prices and try to get GPA prices on his books. Shoot, the seller can ask triple GPA if he wants, but it doesn't mean that he's going to get it. If you trust that seller's grading, then you may consider buying books at GPA/near GPA/over GPA prices. As a buyer, if you want a book bad enough, you pay the price. If you think asking GPA prices for raw books is insane, then just don't buy and move along. Quite simple, actually.

 

Andy

 

Gotta go with you here. Providing the buyer has enough details to make an informed decision and wants the book badly enough, it doesn't really matter where the price comes from does it?

 

And isn't an informed decision supposed to be beneficial to the seller AND the buyer? that is my point.

 

Thank you.

 

R.