General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Mutie Fan]

 

You never give me your money...

 

You only give me your funny papers...

 

And in the middle of negotiations... you break down

 

I never give you my number...

 

I only give you my situation...

 

And in the middle of investigation, I break down...

 

The Beatles.

 

Listening to Abbey Road right now.

 

Nice way to spend the Christmas.

 

 

We did all our family get together last night. Today it is just me, the wife, the dog, the cats and the chickens.

[Bosco685]

That wasn't testy, ...it's a phrase I always use;)

 

My other one is "ARE YOU ON DRUGS? "

 

but I didnt think it was appropriate here;)

 

 

Antibiotics.

 

You're golden in my book, Sharon. Have a super and safe Christmas.

[MrBedrock]

I would never post a PGX graded book here. I would not get a book graded by PGX. But I do buy collections of books and sometimes there are PGX graded books in those collections. What I have learned when selling these comics is that there is one major similarity between CGC graded comic books and PGX graded comic books. They are each comic books which happen to be in third party grading holders. But when I sell them I call each of them comic books. I advertise the fact that one is in a CGC holder and I use that as a selling point. I hide the fact that the other is in a PGX holder as that is usually not a selling point. But I'm selling the comic, not the holder. What I do not understand is the animosity toward the comics that are in PGX holders. Sharon says she wants to play hockey with hers. Others have said similar things. Why destroy the comic simply because it is in a PGX holder. Sure, destroy the holder. But why the comic? And further, if a boardie posts a pic of a comic and lists his/her personal grade why is that not sufficient? Especially if there is no mention of another label, no picture of another label, no use of another opinion, and therefore no benefit to another grading company or the seller whatsoever? Heck, I should be able to post a front-and-back scan of a CGC graded comic, crop out the label and edges of the holder, make no mention of CGC, list it at my grade, and offer it for sale. I should be able to market my comic books as I see fit. Ultimately I am the one who will have to answer to the buyer. And for those of you who say, "Well those are the rules you need to adhere to to sell on the CGC boards", I say be careful what you wish for. The restrictions you are continually imposing may soon threaten to undercut the very sellers you enjoy seeing in the sales forums on a regular basis.

[faster friends]

I would never post a PGX graded book here. I would not get a book graded by PGX. But I do buy collections of books and sometimes there are PGX graded books in those collections. What I have learned when selling these comics is that there is one major similarity between CGC graded comic books and PGX graded comic books. They are each comic books which happen to be in third party grading holders. But when I sell them I call each of them comic books. I advertise the fact that one is in a CGC holder and I use that as a selling point. I hide the fact that the other is in a PGX holder as that is usually not a selling point. But I'm selling the comic, not the holder. What I do not understand is the animosity toward the comics that are in PGX holders. Sharon says she wants to play hockey with hers. Others have said similar things. Why destroy the comic simply because it is in a PGX holder. Sure, destroy the holder. But why the comic? And further, if a boardie posts a pic of a comic and lists his/her personal grade why is that not sufficient? Especially if there is no mention of another label, no picture of another label, no use of another opinion, and therefore no benefit to another grading company or the seller whatsoever? Heck, I should be able to post a front-and-back scan of a CGC graded comic, crop out the label and edges of the holder, make no mention of CGC, list it at my grade, and offer it for sale. I should be able to market my comic books as I see fit. Ultimately I am the one who will have to answer to the buyer. And for those of you who say, "Well those are the rules you need to adhere to to sell on the CGC boards", I say be careful what you wish for. The restrictions you are continually imposing may soon threaten to undercut the very sellers you enjoy seeing in the sales forums on a regular basis.

 

+1 Very well said

[DrWatson]

And further, if a boardie posts a pic of a comic and lists his/her personal grade why is that not sufficient?

It is sufficient. As long as the picture of the comic is raw. You can even post a picture of an Avengers 161 in Very Fine and call it Near Mint + with a $15 price tag.

 

Ultimately I am the one who will have to answer to the buyer.

Yes, and you will be here to answer to the buyer if something goes wrong. You aren't a post today and gone tomorrow board participant. You aren't here solely to take advantage of a free selling arena. Preparation H didn't label their suppositories "Do Not Eat" for people such as yourself.

 

All of these people aren't around anymore or are no longer willing to answer to the buyer:

 

 

 

THE HALL OF SHAME

 

The following Board Members have been elected by the community to the

Probation List's "Hall of Shame" for gross misconduct as members in the

Marketplace Forum:

 

• Herald2Galactus
  (Inaugural Member & 1st "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• gilbertotorres
  (added 11/5/08 - 2nd "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• ComicSupply
  (added 10/28/08 - 3rd "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• CAP freak
  (added 5/21/09 - 4th "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• AlleyBat aka BucOne aka WolfHulk aka Roxx Gang aka MarkWeb aka lastyle7 aka royig aka Punkkitty aka bamaboy aka Greenpep
  (added 5/23/08 - 5th "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• TFL
  (added 6/2/09 - 6th "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark
  (added 5/3/10 - 7th "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• TheDanimal
  (added 8/12/10 - 8th "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• MachineGunned aka William Townsend aka Chester Jordan
  (added 8/31/10 - 9th "Hall of Shame" Member)
   
  
• Joker-Fish
  (added 11/3/10 - 10th "Hall of Shame" Member)

THE PROBATION LIST

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time. Those with an "Off-Board" notation indicate the failed transaction occurred outside of the CGC Message Boards.

 

 

[*] aaron568 (added 11/6/08)

 

[*] BATMANFAN (added 2/9/10)

 

[*] bkwon12 (added 10/08/09)

 

[*] brasseye (added 7/2/09)

 

[*] bronzejunkie (added 3/26/07)

 

[*] Chrissr (added 12/22/09)

 

[*] clobberintime (added 11/7/07)

 

[*] comicmankev (added 3/27/07)

 

[*] comicseekers (added 9/14/10)

 

[*] daken2626 (added 10/14/11)

 

[*] DarkKnight2K4 (added 4/24/08)

 

[*] Dimebag_D (added 12/17/11)

 

[*] donavan74 (added 3/27/07)

 

[*] erbdom (added 12/08/09)

 

[*] ffxmen14 (added 4/12/10)

 

[*] Gaijin2010 (added 9/24/10)

 

[*] Ghastly (added by majority vote 12/3/07)

 

[*] Hammerhead (voluntarily added 7/27/11)

 

[*] Henchman (added 4/25/08)

 

[*] HGComics (added 10/7/09)

 

[*] htown79 (added 8/4/10)

 

[*] holyghost (added 6/30/11)

 

[*] itsatoy67 (added 9/21/11)

 

[*] kevin109 (added 4/19/10)

 

[*] Lighthouse (added 6/13/07)

 

[*] Marc Wolfe (added 9/15/08)

 

[*] Marvelguy34 (added 8/5/11)

 

[*] matewan1990 (added 3/3/08)

 

[*] mishu2nite (added 3/3/10)

 

[*] mjacobs8 (added 1/24/09)

 

[*] Nascar (added 6/2/07)

 

[*] NEXTLVL (added 10/12/08)

 

[*] panahobit (added 3/8/11)

 

[*] rza808 (added 10/18/11)

 

[*] SAGAT (added 4/29/11) - Off Board via eBay - eBay ID Miffybunny

 

[*] Sid (added 8/8/07)

 

[*] SilverSlinky (added 11/20/09)

 

[*] SIXX_VAN_ROSE (added 11/7/08)

 

[*] SpiderJay300 (added 9/15/07)

 

[*] Superman20 (added 12/18/07)

 

[*] Taz007 aka Thesavros aka Rudolph (added 7/15/09)

 

[*] Tyson (added 10/7/11)

 

[*] ZoMbiE13 (added 9/21/11)

 

Oh, and Merry Christmas, Happy Christmas, Joyeux Noël, Happy Holidays, Happy Chanukah, Feliz Navidad, Happy Kwanzaa and Merry Kissmyass.

 

There you go. I think I covered all my bases with North American, traditional English, French, non-denominational, Jewish, Spanish, African Heritage and redneck.

[skypinkblu]

I would never post a PGX graded book here. I would not get a book graded by PGX. But I do buy collections of books and sometimes there are PGX graded books in those collections. What I have learned when selling these comics is that there is one major similarity between CGC graded comic books and PGX graded comic books. They are each comic books which happen to be in third party grading holders. But when I sell them I call each of them comic books. I advertise the fact that one is in a CGC holder and I use that as a selling point. I hide the fact that the other is in a PGX holder as that is usually not a selling point. But I'm selling the comic, not the holder. What I do not understand is the animosity toward the comics that are in PGX holders. Sharon says she wants to play hockey with hers. Others have said similar things. Why destroy the comic simply because it is in a PGX holder. Sure, destroy the holder. But why the comic? And further, if a boardie posts a pic of a comic and lists his/her personal grade why is that not sufficient? Especially if there is no mention of another label, no picture of another label, no use of another opinion, and therefore no benefit to another grading company or the seller whatsoever? Heck, I should be able to post a front-and-back scan of a CGC graded comic, crop out the label and edges of the holder, make no mention of CGC, list it at my grade, and offer it for sale. I should be able to market my comic books as I see fit. Ultimately I am the one who will have to answer to the buyer. And for those of you who say, "Well those are the rules you need to adhere to to sell on the CGC boards", I say be careful what you wish for. The restrictions you are continually imposing may soon threaten to undercut the very sellers you enjoy seeing in the sales forums on a regular basis.

 

You know, I don't really PLAY Hockey, right? ?

 

As a matter of fact when CGC first started I explained to my fellow collectors who wondered why I bought some, that I was saving up my slabs to make a coffee table...

 

I think they might make a really cool coffee table;)

 

Haven't done it yet.

 

I see myself as a guest here, their rules, their product, I don't see the big deal about being courteous and not putting anything still in a PGX holder in a sales thread.

 

What would be the big deal about taking it out of the holder? ESPECIALLY in this instance where the book was selling at auction, and it was going to sell no matter what, so it was not something that the seller wanted to save in case it was going to be eBayed.

 

My BIG concern, is that we have a sales forum at the pleasure of CGC. I'd like to keep them happy, so the forum stays.

 

If CGC wants to change the rules so it says the book must be CGC, or not showing a label...Fine, but right now it says "or Raw".

 

Pretty specific. They said that, after a few other incidents in the same vein.

 

 

So, if you (not you specifically Richard;) are discourteous and tick your hosts off and you lose the sales forum on the way to protecting your "freedom", it will show the true meaning of "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose";)

 

 

 

[PovertyRow]

I advertise the fact that one is in a CGC holder and I use that as a selling point. I hide the fact that the other is in a PGX holder as that is usually not a selling point. But I'm selling the comic, not the holder. ... What I do not understand is the animosity toward the comics that are in PGX holders.

 

If you obtain the book in a holder how can you say you are selling the book and not the holder? I assume with raw books you take a little time to at least go through the book. And in the case of a high $$$ book maybe more time? A holder precludes any inspection beyond the covers.

 

How can you do a real resto check on a book in a holder? You really can't, except to look at the front and back covers. How can you determine the current page quality, especially in older slabbed books with unknown storage conditions? You can''t.

 

So you are really not selling the comic: you are selling what the 3rd party grading company said the book was at a particular time. Or am I off here?

 

As far as not understanding the animosity to PGX, there may be, for example, less confidence in PGX's restoration checking abilities.

[Bosco685]

As far as not understanding the animosity to PGX, there may be, for example, less confidence in PGX's restoration checking abilities.

Unfortunaely, that is the hard truth when it comes to PGX.

 

I remember Gator posting in Comics General a while back that he finally opened up a Superman PGX Golden Age book to look it over, and found out the back cover had been taped to the front cover on the inside - and it was even the wrong cover. Yet the holder had given it a pure/universal grade, with no mention of the restoration.

 

[Bosco685]

If you have an alternate suggestion for wording, as I keep saying, or trying to say;) present it.

 

Okay, let's see how this works for the masses.

 

The rules it seems we wish to recommend modifications to are the following:

 

1. Books must be CGC or raw only, or items directly related to comics.

 

7. List scans or information about the grade of the offered books.

 

For Rule 1, I suggest keeping it very simple.

 

================

1. Books must be CGC or raw only, or items directly related to comics. No other third-party grading company books (e.g. PGX) will be sold on this forum.

================

 

For Rule 7, we will want to take the two scenarios into consideration (book-in-hand; pre-arrival sale).

 

================

7. List scans or information about the grade of the offered books. In the even the book is graded/encased by CGC, a scan or picture is mandatory of the label. If the book is in-hand, a picture/scan of the label must be posted within the same day of the sale listing. In the event of a pre-arrival sale (still being finalized at CGC), either a scan must be purchased from CGC and posted in the sales thread or there is an agreement between the seller and the buyer a completed sale cannot be finalized until the required picture is provided within one (1) week of receipt of the book from CGC.

================

 

The main concern with the last sentenance is what if the seller receives an offer without conditions of a photo. Of course, this should not be allowed as the scan/photo of the label is an across-the-board rule, and not something that should be dismissed to remove the burden on the seller to confirm CGC grading.

 

Thoughts?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Personally, I don't think books should be sold here that aren't already in hand. Not sure if it still applies (as I refuse to use the site any longer), but didn't eBay insist that you couldn't sell anything that you didn't physically have in your possession?

 

Same thing should apply here for a number of reasons. One, a book not in your possession might never get to you, or if it does, it could be damaged in transit and two, you can't provide scans to fully inform the potential buyer.

 

I don't understand the desperate need to get hold of somebody's money before you've even got hold of the book you're trying to sell to them. If it's about tight cash-flow...you're doing it wrong.

[Bosco685]

I do agree, as you hear of nightmare stories with mail delivery every once in a while that makes you cringe. But we do have sellers on here that practice this approach, so I figured we better cover this scenario to remove the guess work.

[bababooey]

I still say the user guideline changes are up to the mods and enforced by mods.

If the community wants to punish a seller of 3rd party graded books it should get added to POV's PL/HOS rules.

 

ie- the community here, in support of the hosts, has voted that any member who is given a strike by the mods (for selling non CGC/ non raw books) will also be placed on the probation list for 2 months

Do it 3 times - HOS This puts it all back to "telling the party to take the book down" & "hitting the button" (today's situation).

 

The only non-strike option should be any buyer who receives a book that doesn't conform to rule #1 of user guidelines can nominate seller to temp PL - just a scan in the PL discussion thread with a link to sale. That option just makes selling a non-CGC too risky for sellers which should help discourage sales.

 

sample: 5) Probation List versus Hall Of Shame

a) The Probation List is for transactions that have not been fulfilled as promised. The community will also place members on probation who sell 3rd party graded books contrary to CGC's marketplace guidelines - non-sales nominations for this are supplemental to a mod issued strike.

 

 

[Bosco685]

Do it 3 times - HOS This puts it all back to "telling the party to take the book down" & "hitting the button" (today's situation).

The challenge is if someone is warned one time the sale of PGX books are not allowed on this forum, why give them additional breaks? One time should have been enough to get the point across.

[Bio-Rupp]

I still say the user guideline changes are up to the mods and enforced by mods.

If the community wants to punish a seller of 3rd party graded books it should get added to POV's PL/HOS rules.

 

ie- the community here, in support of the hosts, has voted that any member who is given a strike by the mods (for selling non CGC/ non raw books) will also be placed on the probation list for 2 months

Do it 3 times - HOS This puts it all back to "telling the party to take the book down" & "hitting the button" (today's situation).

 

The only non-strike option should be any buyer who receives a book that doesn't conform to rule #1 of user guidelines can nominate seller to temp PL - just a scan in the PL discussion thread with a link to sale. That option just makes selling a non-CGC too risky for sellers which should help discourage sales.

sample: 5) Probation List versus Hall Of Shame

a) The Probation List is for transactions that have not been fulfilled as promised. The community will also place members on probation who sell 3rd party graded books contrary to CGC's marketplace guidelines - non-sales nominations for this are supplemental to a mod issued strike.

 

 

What about when the buyer decides to keep the book, the buyer then removes it from the case... and then in a turn of events (due to second thoughts, anger, etc) decides to pursue this course of action?

 

Recent events have shown just a scenario. Is the buyer of said product to put on the list also? Is willfully accepting a other company's product here just as bad as selling it? Police arrest the drug buyers as well as the dealers don't they? Can we take their kids too?

 

Just saying... slippery slope.

[Bosco685]

Just saying... slippery slope.

I have to agree. Heck, even certain countries go after the johns instead of the prostitutes because the service wouldn't be there if there wasn't a demand.

 

I'd shy away from this approach (not pimping books - didn't want to disrupt Clooneython; I mean the part about going after one side without the other).

[faster friends]

I dont think books should be pre-sold that are not in hand either. Too many things can happen.

 

That's what the announcement forum is for.

Edited December 26, 2011 by faster friends

[joeypost]

I still say the user guideline changes are up to the mods and enforced by mods.

If the community wants to punish a seller of 3rd party graded books it should get added to POV's PL/HOS rules.

 

ie- the community here, in support of the hosts, has voted that any member who is given a strike by the mods (for selling non CGC/ non raw books) will also be placed on the probation list for 2 months

Do it 3 times - HOS This puts it all back to "telling the party to take the book down" & "hitting the button" (today's situation).

 

The only non-strike option should be any buyer who receives a book that doesn't conform to rule #1 of user guidelines can nominate seller to temp PL - just a scan in the PL discussion thread with a link to sale. That option just makes selling a non-CGC too risky for sellers which should help discourage sales.

sample: 5) Probation List versus Hall Of Shame

a) The Probation List is for transactions that have not been fulfilled as promised. The community will also place members on probation who sell 3rd party graded books contrary to CGC's marketplace guidelines - non-sales nominations for this are supplemental to a mod issued strike.

 

 

What about when the buyer decides to keep the book, the buyer then removes it from the case... and then in a turn of events (due to second thoughts, anger, etc) decides to pursue this course of action?

 

Recent events have shown just a scenario. Is the buyer of said product to put on the list also? Is willfully accepting a other company's product here just as bad as selling it? Police arrest the drug buyers as well as the dealers don't they? Can we take their kids too?

 

Just saying... slippery slope.

 

The SELLER pushed the issue. Not only sold a PGX book but then wanted positive feedback after he expressly stated it was NOT a PGX slab. There was no anger, second thoughts, mob mentality. I realised at that time he just wasn't getting it. Fairly certain he gets it now.

 

As far as a slippery slope goes I have no problem being on the probation list, none. As long as you add me you need to go after every less than perfect transaction and have them slide down the same slope. This way when your turn comes we will all be there to greet you.

[Bosco685]

What a way to kick off Kwanzaa.

 

 

[Bio-Rupp]

I still say the user guideline changes are up to the mods and enforced by mods.

If the community wants to punish a seller of 3rd party graded books it should get added to POV's PL/HOS rules.

 

ie- the community here, in support of the hosts, has voted that any member who is given a strike by the mods (for selling non CGC/ non raw books) will also be placed on the probation list for 2 months

Do it 3 times - HOS This puts it all back to "telling the party to take the book down" & "hitting the button" (today's situation).

 

The only non-strike option should be any buyer who receives a book that doesn't conform to rule #1 of user guidelines can nominate seller to temp PL - just a scan in the PL discussion thread with a link to sale. That option just makes selling a non-CGC too risky for sellers which should help discourage sales.

sample: 5) Probation List versus Hall Of Shame

a) The Probation List is for transactions that have not been fulfilled as promised. The community will also place members on probation who sell 3rd party graded books contrary to CGC's marketplace guidelines - non-sales nominations for this are supplemental to a mod issued strike.

 

 

What about when the buyer decides to keep the book, the buyer then removes it from the case... and then in a turn of events (due to second thoughts, anger, etc) decides to pursue this course of action?

 

Recent events have shown just a scenario. Is the buyer of said product to put on the list also? Is willfully accepting a other company's product here just as bad as selling it? Police arrest the drug buyers as well as the dealers don't they? Can we take their kids too?

 

Just saying... slippery slope.

 

The SELLER pushed the issue. Not only sold a PGX book but then wanted positive feedback after he expressly stated it was NOT a PGX slab. There was no anger, second thoughts, mob mentality. I realised at that time he just wasn't getting it. Fairly certain he gets it now.

 

As far as a slippery slope goes I have no problem being on the probation list, none. As long as you add me you need to go after every less than perfect transaction and have them slide down the same slope. This way when your turn comes we will all be there to greet you.

 

Joey this wasn't directed at you as a dis... just a simple notation stating where does it all end?

 

Honestly no one knows for sure if Trey's slab was in a PGX case or not... only you know this. And if said book isn't in a slab now (ie the way you supposedly received it) ... then that book is RAW and in truth you have no beef with Trey since all you have is a raw book to show what you received. Truthfully the only thing that I can see that the SELLER in your situation pushed... was asking for positive feedback from a "transacton" that was sucessfully enacted.

 

Plus it still hasn't been shown if Trey was put on the probation list for selling a PGX book or not. Only reason stated was "Moderation Violations"... not "rule violation". Moderation violations could mean a slew of things at the time of the issue... ranging from Trey's kamikaze posting PM's to his vibrant, erratic behavior. So all those that keep saying he has been put on that list because of this very issue, needs to go look at the reason stated.

 

Again this isn't about your issue, its about preventing further madness concerning this entire issue.

 

The NOTIFY MOD button is in place for this very reason if someone feels the need to use it.

 

Oh and trust me sir, the mob has been there to greet me... and we all saw how that worked out.

 

And Bozzcoe... its spelled "Kwanzaa".

[Bosco685]

Whatever are you talking about, Sheeet Meister?