General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[HarveySwick]

can anyone point back to the thread that caused all the problems?

One Week.

The would-be buyer was in PM Contact with him right before throwing up the in the thread so the thread was still active. The "issue" revolved around oceanavekid explaining that he did not want to negotiate on price and lower his asking price by $10 and saying "It might be priced low at $110. I think I might hold onto it." He never specifically said - The book is no longer for sale and Closed the thread. As such, the would-be buyer treated it as a negotiation tactic. There was a 6 hour period from him saying it "might" be priced low to the time where Jawn took it in the still active thread. If he was really going to keep it and it was priced too low, he had 6 hours to close his thread.

 

Timmay's breakdown is how I see it.

 

PM Conversation for future discussion. (thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bio-Rupp]

You know Justin... I almost was ready to agree with the "hold on to it" answer as a possible statement that could be construed as a negotiation tactic... that is until I re-read again the dropdown spoiler you listed above.

 

Jawn's first PM to oceanavekid wasn't a negotiation PM... it was a question about whether the book was a direct sale or newsstand copy.

 

Oceanavekid's first PM response to jawn was to that question and not about negotiation. The 'kid stated THEN, he was "going to just hold on to it". This was before ANY negotiation on the price had occurred.

 

How could this be a negotiating tactic... if the book was stated to be held BEFORE any negotiation took place?

 

This is STILL a great discussion

[HarveySwick]

But it's "hold onto it until I'm able to take some pictures."

 

And this goes back to his mindset - if he really was not open to selling it (that is the thread was closed)... why didn't he just close the thread?!

 

And why doesn't oceanavekid just write Jawn and say "what can I do to make you happy and get off the list?" --> I'm dumbfounded that people continue to try to defend him when he doesn't even care to get off the Probation List.

[Bio-Rupp]

But it's "hold onto it until I'm able to take some pictures."

 

And this goes back to his mindset - if he really was not open to selling it (that is the thread was closed)... why didn't he just close the thread?!

 

Can't speak for the 'kid as to why he didn't get up at 3AM that night and close that thread before jawn popped the at 4AM.

 

I'm just trying to see where oceanavekid was using a negotiation tactic when he stated he was "holding the book" ....before any actual negotiating took place

[HarveySwick]

Should we be focusing on oceanavekid's actions or Jawn's actions? oceanavekid said he was "going to hold onto it" at 7:44PM. Unless he is and goes to bed before 8PM, he didn't really intend for the thread to be closed otherwise he should have marked it as such.

 

There still is no answer to the question -- IF a random person came along and posted a in the open thread, is oceanavekid allowed to say "I'm not selling it. I'm keeping it."

 

[revat]

Should we be focusing on oceanavekid's actions or Jawn's actions? oceanavekid said he was "going to hold onto it" at 7:44PM. Unless he is and goes to bed before 8PM, he didn't really intend for the thread to be closed otherwise he should have marked it as such.

 

There still is no answer to the question -- IF a random person came along and posted a in the open thread, is oceanavekid allowed to say "I'm not selling it. I'm keeping it."

 

 

if I'm out and about at 744 pm, lets say dinner and drinks. lets say I check my pm's during a bathroom break. I answer it quickly, move along with dinner and drinks, don't think about comics again, I'm out with my boys or ladies or whatevs. Get home at midnight, little buzzed. Go to sleep. Wake up the next morning.

 

Is it really so ridiculous that I didn't think to go close my thread during that time? Is it so preposterous to think that I thought the matter closed after I told the guy I was going to hold on to it?

[asteroid-comix]

But it's "hold onto it until I'm able to take some pictures."

 

And this goes back to his mindset - if he really was not open to selling it (that is the thread was closed)... why didn't he just close the thread?!

 

Can't speak for the 'kid as to why he didn't get up at 3AM that night and close that thread before jawn popped the at 4AM.

 

I'm just trying to see where oceanavekid was using a negotiation tactic when he stated he was "holding the book" ....before any actual negotiating took place

It looks to me like he posted that he was going to "close down in a few days" on 4/22. If I came across the thread on 5/1, I would assume the thread was closed.

 

It looks to me like the buyer saw it on 5/1 and sent an offer. When told by the seller that the book was being kept, he decided to throw up a take it and force an issue. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Seller shouldn't go on the PL.

[Bio-Rupp]

Should we be focusing on oceanavekid's actions or Jawn's actions? oceanavekid said he was "going to hold onto it" at 7:44PM. Unless he is and goes to bed before 8PM, he didn't really intend for the thread to be closed otherwise he should have marked it as such.

 

There still is no answer to the question -- IF a random person came along and posted a in the open thread, is oceanavekid allowed to say "I'm not selling it. I'm keeping it."

 

 

Can't say for sure what would happen Justin.

 

I know the last post that the 'kid made in that thread was on 4/24 and jawn's was placed on 5/1.

 

I estimate the 'kid's thread was somewhere on page 5 or 6 of the sales thread when the was placed. I don't know how many people go that far back and post signs. I personally know that I never go back past page two or so... but that's because I check the sales threads daily. Looking at jawn's posting history... he may have to go through pages of threads since he stays off the boards a week or so at a time.

 

That said, as you said the 'kid hadn't put "closed" on the thread... but then keep in mind that Walking Dead #1 CGC 9.8 slab that Branget has up still doesn't have a "closed" sign in it.

 

We have to decide "when" is closed.

 

I would say part of the problem would be that no one had taken the time to actually tell oceanavekid to close his thread if books were no longer for sale.

 

There are still no rules in place that dictate when a sale is closed if the seller hasn't marked it closed. All that has been posted as answer's to that query is a few guesses and someone said "common sense".

 

The bad thing about that "common sense" is most people seem to lean in their favor concerning discussions about common sense. This case for example... the 'kid says he's going to keep the book. He might think the buyer would use common sense and realize "hey he told me he's going to keep it". The flip of the coin is, the buyer doesn't see it that way and hits the take it. Now the buyer thinks that common sense should dictate the seller sell him the book.

 

Common sense is great as long as everyone agrees two things... 1) its common... and 2) it makes sense. That sometimes doesn't happen around here

 

If we could find out an answer to this question... it would be a FANTASTIC section to add in your N00B Guide. Now all the board has to do is agree on when a sales thread is considered inactive and what time frame would be a fair cut off

[CAHokie]

Once again though, if Swick would have come along upon the one week thread and posted the would the opinion change? I still say that this is more than just the wording, timing, and closing of the thread. It still goes back to the seller's reputation and the way he acts on the boards. That is why he is not getting the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately I can not link all of those trolling threads and comments he made when joining then talking about selling because they have all been poofed.

[HarveySwick]

It looks to me like he posted that he was going to "close down in a few days" on 4/22. If I came across the thread on 5/1, I would assume the thread was closed.

 

Correct. The books that were already for sale in his thread were going to be moved to eBay soon if they did not sell. But then he added some new books two days later and added: "Should have the books in hand next week." You don't think that means the thread is open at least a week until he actually HAS the books in hand?

[CAHokie]

I love that so many people are defending him, while he himself has essentially told the board to pound sound.

[HarveySwick]

Should we be focusing on oceanavekid's actions or Jawn's actions? oceanavekid said he was "going to hold onto it" at 7:44PM. Unless he is and goes to bed before 8PM, he didn't really intend for the thread to be closed otherwise he should have marked it as such.

 

There still is no answer to the question -- IF a random person came along and posted a in the open thread, is oceanavekid allowed to say "I'm not selling it. I'm keeping it."

 

 

if I'm out and about at 744 pm, lets say dinner and drinks. lets say I check my pm's during a bathroom break. I answer it quickly, move along with dinner and drinks, don't think about comics again, I'm out with my boys or ladies or whatevs. Get home at midnight, little buzzed. Go to sleep. Wake up the next morning.

 

Is it really so ridiculous that I didn't think to go close my thread during that time? Is it so preposterous to think that I thought the matter closed after I told the guy I was going to hold on to it?

 

And everyone criticizing Jawn for posting an I'll Take it in the thread at 4:00 AM and most normal people aren't up at that time.

oceanavekid was posting at 2:31AM!

 

It's not like he went to bed and woke up to a surprise?!

[CAHokie]

You need to stop using facts and logic right now!!!

[HarveySwick]

[asteroid-comix]

Should we be focusing on oceanavekid's actions or Jawn's actions? oceanavekid said he was "going to hold onto it" at 7:44PM. Unless he is and goes to bed before 8PM, he didn't really intend for the thread to be closed otherwise he should have marked it as such.

 

There still is no answer to the question -- IF a random person came along and posted a in the open thread, is oceanavekid allowed to say "I'm not selling it. I'm keeping it."

 

 

Can't say for sure what would happen Justin.

 

I know the last post that the 'kid made in that thread was on 4/24 and jawn's was placed on 5/1.

 

I estimate the 'kid's thread was somewhere on page 5 or 6 of the sales thread when the was placed. I don't know how many people go that far back and post signs. I personally know that I never go back past page two or so... but that's because I check the sales threads daily. Looking at jawn's posting history... he may have to go through pages of threads since he stays off the boards a week or so at a time.

 

That said, as you said the 'kid hadn't put "closed" on the thread... but then keep in mind that Walking Dead #1 CGC 9.8 slab that Branget has up still doesn't have a "closed" sign in it.

 

We have to decide "when" is closed.

 

I would say part of the problem would be that no one had taken the time to actually tell oceanavekid to close his thread if books were no longer for sale.

 

There are still no rules in place that dictate when a sale is closed if the seller hasn't marked it closed. All that has been posted as answer's to that query is a few guesses and someone said "common sense".

 

The bad thing about that "common sense" is most people seem to lean in their favor concerning discussions about common sense. This case for example... the 'kid says he's going to keep the book. He might think the buyer would use common sense and realize "hey he told me he's going to keep it". The flip of the coin is, the buyer doesn't see it that way and hits the take it. Now the buyer thinks that common sense should dictate the seller sell him the book.

 

Common sense is great as long as everyone agrees two things... 1) its common... and 2) it makes sense. That sometimes doesn't happen around here

 

If we could find out an answer to this question... it would be a FANTASTIC section to add in your N00B Guide. Now all the board has to do is agree on when a sales thread is considered inactive and what time frame would be a fair cut off

This.

[revat]

I love that so many people are defending him, while he himself has essentially told the board to pound sound.

 

 

I think people are defending the principle more. Reputation aside, I could easily see myself doing the same thing by accident. I'd like to think I'd be a bit more careful, but I can be pretty forgetful and easily distracted too.

 

I think both sides of the argument are somewhat reasonable in this case, and when that happens, maybe the probation list is too heavy a punishment.

 

I feel like probation list should be about "HE/SHE MUST DO THIS, but didn't." Not "HE/SHE probably should've done this, but didn't"

 

 

 

[bababooey]

Should we be focusing on oceanavekid's actions or Jawn's actions? oceanavekid said he was "going to hold onto it" at 7:44PM. Unless he is and goes to bed before 8PM, he didn't really intend for the thread to be closed otherwise he should have marked it as such.

 

There still is no answer to the question -- IF a random person came along and posted a in the open thread, is oceanavekid allowed to say "I'm not selling it. I'm keeping it."

 

I agree the random "takeit" changes this to a clear debate over how long an unmarked sales thread remains open for business. That isn't what occurred.

 

There is an indication on April 22nd that the thread could be closed down.

 

Still a few books left i'm open to offers

 

But not giving the books away

 

If they don't sell in the next few days i'll close this down and list on the bay

 

 

So there's two weakly worded refusals, the latter in response to jawn's offer. There's an opinion from the seller stating he likely priced it low.

Jawn then took the book at 4 am & already knew it was listed on e-bay at 10 pm that night?

If you're going to read between the lines on "I think & probably" then I can't understand why people aren't looking at this from both sides.

 

I don't think either party is blameless, both made mistakes but one party is simply sloppy while the other is fully aware of what he is doing.

 

The question now is: why did the buyer check the e-bay listings on the same day that he popped the "takeit" ?

....because he knew what he was doing, the seller posted that he was going to close the thread & list the books on e-bay; via PM he also said (weakly) that he was going to keep it twice & told jawn that he thought his price in a week old thread was low.

 

[HarveySwick]

It looks to me like he posted that he was going to "close down in a few days" on 4/22. If I came across the thread on 5/1, I would assume the thread was closed.

 

Correct. The books that were already for sale in his thread were going to be moved to eBay soon if they did not sell. But then he added some new books two days later and added: "Should have the books in hand next week." You don't think that means the thread is open at least a week until he actually HAS the books in hand?

[faster friends]

Agree. Ocean may not be a model Boardie, I just don't see this as probation list material.

[HarveySwick]

Agree. Ocean may not be a model Boardie, I just don't see this as probation list material.

Paul, he had a book listed for sale. Someone in his open, active thread. He didn't honor the sale. What IS a probation list worthy offense?