Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Fan Boy]

10 hours ago, lizards2 said:

You'll get what we think you ought to see and hear, and you better like it.

Sure, you are right ... I guess you like your bacon sizzling in pan as your "diversity". 

[Fan Boy]

5 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The problem was/is beyond them getting kids to read the comics again. The bigger problem is they had a loyal fanbase that they turned off by trying to get new modern so called hip progressive readers. This is were they screwed the pooch.They didn't realize the new modern so called hip progressive readers are not as loyal and way more fickle than their old time loyal readers.  Now they want the old-time readers back,but found out the loyal fans found other better entertainment for their value and moved on.

I think Marvel and DC will both downsize in the future as the numbers don't look good. I would also expect new leadership at Marvel soon. Disney is known for making changes.

 

And the other problem was that both or about many companies had stopped continuing the first volumes of main titles like Action, ASM, Superman, FF by the number. Then brought up renewed titles with new number again with "01" onward  to start over. 

This is part of the problem which had ticked off many older loyal fans ... like me. Thus, was where I took my leave from there. Now I see the Action comics is back with the 900 number where it left out last time. After all the flipped renew volumes since? Naw ... it is not a true continuity in the sense. It's not a first volume anymore. 

[VintageComics]

The problem with reading is a lack of patience.

Today's society is founded on a lack of patience.

Children are brought up to not be patient.

If you want children to read, putting comics in front of kids will not teach them that.

Parents need to limit access to digital devices and teach kids how to be patient, how to read, how to play the long game, how to learn to earn gratification through that long game.

We're currently raising a society of socially inept, isolated children that are being baby sat by social media.

 

[lizards2]

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

The problem with reading is a lack of patience.

Today's society is founded on a lack of patience.

Children are brought up to not be patient.

If you want children to read, putting comics in front of kids will not teach them that.

Parents need to limit access to digital devices and teach kids how to be patient, how to read, how to play the long game, how to learn to earn gratification through that long game.

We're currently raising a society of socially inept, isolated children that are being baby sat by social media.

 

We have  three kids - 28, 24 and 20 year olds.  They all grew up in a house full of books and comics, and we read to them every day in their formative years.  They are all avid readers and prefer "hold it in your hand" paper books.

My wife eyes are getting older to where she can't read as much, and has been trying to shrink her library a bit, and our 24 year old has told her to keep as much as she can, in storage, if not in the house, so that he can have them later when he settles down and quits traveling the globe.

[VintageComics]

5 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

We have  three kids - 28, 24 and 20 year olds.  They all grew up in a house full of books and comics, and we read to them every day in their formative years.  They are all avid readers and prefer "hold it in your hand" paper books.

My wife eyes are getting older to where she can't read as much, and has been trying to shrink her library a bit, and our 24 year old has told her to keep as much as she can, in storage, if not in the house, so that he can have them later when he settles down and quits traveling the globe.

Yeah, but there's nothing else to do in Oregon. Do you guys even have internet yet?

But seriously, my oldest is 22 and remembers life without a cell phone or social media.

I would put the onset of social media in the mid to late 2000's s the older kids would be less affected by it than younger kids (youngest is 14 and doesn't remember life without social media).

Those who are teens now really have it tough. They need their phones to feel like a part of society but it goes against everything that parents need from their kids.

Good on you. That takes REAL effort!

[SquareChaos]

 

1. Comics are too damn expensive... by about half. They're supposed to be somewhat disposable goods, that way a kid can spend $5 on a handful of comics, tear them up, lend and trade them to friends, etc. When they're older, they can worry about condition and collecting... if the price is right (hint: it ain't).
2. Too much low-cost, easy to access competition. I think Netflix is around $9 a month and extremely easy to use. Marvel Unlimited is roughly similar in price, but their interface is one of the worst things I've ever seen from what I consider a major company, and when considering what should be a premium software platform due to the price. YouTube is free with basically unlimited content. Marvel & DC can't out low effort stories every month and compete with that, they have to be on top of their game. That likely means they have to let creators create and stop working in what - from the outside looking in - appears to be a top-down manner where edicts are delivered concerning tone and content.
3. Video games... on a large scale, comics most likely loose on this facet no matter what. They can't compete with what, at this point, may as well be interactive cartoons and movies. And when looking at cost, if the kid has access to a PC, there are literally thousands of games available for just a few dollars, the only impediment being broadband access and a decently powerful family computer.

 

 

[Hamlet]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

The problem with reading is a lack of patience.

Today's society is founded on a lack of patience.

Children are brought up to not be patient.

If you want children to read, putting comics in front of kids will not teach them that.

Parents need to limit access to digital devices and teach kids how to be patient, how to read, how to play the long game, how to learn to earn gratification through that long game.

We're currently raising a society of socially inept, isolated children that are being baby sat by social media.

 

You must be dealing with different kids than I am.  When I was a kid, schools didn't even start trying to teach reading until 1st or 2nd grade.  Kindergarten was nothing but shapes and colors and numbers.  I didn't learn multiplication until the 3rd grade.

My daughter's preschool started trying to teach her to read and write as soon as she could sit still enough.  She came out of kindergarten being able to read simple books.  She just entered 1st grade, and she is probably at least a year ahead of where I was.  They are teaching her multiplication already.  Her classmates are doing similar things.

I think these kids are pretty smart and accomplished compared to the kids I went to school with.

FYI-- My daughter and I read a lot of Marvel Unlimited on the iPad together.

[1Cool]

Does anyone have a child, nephew or niece that is an avid comic book collector or buyer of actual comic books?  I've given my nephew a stack of comics for his 13th birthday a few years ago but I don't think he bought any other.  My daughter has no interest in comics.

[Broke as a Joke]

Marvel and DC should be including comics with every toy/game that they sell.  I just really think they don't care enough if comics go the way of the dinosaur.  

[lizards2]

27 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Does anyone have a child, nephew or niece that is an avid comic book collector or buyer of actual comic books?  I've given my nephew a stack of comics for his 13th birthday a few years ago but I don't think he bought any other.  My daughter has no interest in comics.

I bombarded my kids, three nephews and a niece with comics for birthdays, Christmas, etc.

One of my nephews sort of collected on his own for awhile.  None of it really stuck, other than some fond memories of reading past.

[FutureFlash]

12 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Does anyone have a child, nephew or niece that is an avid comic book collector or buyer of actual comic books?  I've given my nephew a stack of comics for his 13th birthday a few years ago but I don't think he bought any other.  My daughter has no interest in comics.

Out of 8 nieces and nephews, I have 2 nephews that are semi interested in comics...one is 8 and the other is 23. Neither collect or read trades but enjoy other media around comic characters. I don't think the older one will ever collect comics at this point but the younger one may.  But on the flip side I was in a comic shop this week and there was a young couple in their early 20s looking at old and new books. The girlfriend/wife was asking him all sorts of questions...like what is golden age and about various characters. She did end up getting a few Gotham Academy books saying she would give them a try.

So there is interest but it is a minority with Millennials and younger...they just have to many other things to do and reading/collecting is not one of them. Question is are there enough to replace us Baby Boomers and GenXers.

But it is also fair to point a lot of media is down compared to the good old days. TV viewership, Movies, Books, Magazines, Albums. I think Video Games are about the only media still growing sales year to year. Though RPGs (pen and paper) have also hit a bit of a renaissance as well.

[SquareChaos]

48 minutes ago, FutureFlash said:

Question is are there enough to replace us Baby Boomers and GenXers.

I feel very comfortable saying there is absolutely no way the collector numbers will be there - think of the number of comics printed in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for what was, at the time, a considerably larger reading audience. Comic readership and print numbers have steadily dwindled to where we are today. When the prized books from of our older collectors start to hit the market in larger numbers in the next decade or so - whether due to death or liquidation for retirement or what have you - many of those non-key books will have nowhere to go at their current prices. If you envision it as a cascade of older collector's comics being consumed by the tiers below them, and consider as already stated that readership has steadily dwindled for decades... it appears deductively obvious that there are too few collectors for the number of books in the collections a generation above them. 

 

The relatively recent laser beam focus on key issues may be a sign that this is already happening... that cherry picking the best out of what is essentially a flood of too many books for the shrinking hobby to absorb is the new normal. This may be confirmation bias, but I know when I first started in the 80s there was much more focus on collecting storylines - today that seems like a relatively lost art... I don't even do it any more.

Edited September 15, 2017 by SquareChaos
Clarity

[kimik]

6 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

The relatively recent laser beam focus on key issues may be a sign that this is already happening... that cherry picking the best out of what is essentially a flood of too many books for the shrinking hobby to absorb is the new normal. This may be confirmation bias, but I know when I first started in the 80s there was much more focus on collecting storylines - today that seems like a relatively lost art... I don't even do it any more.

Back then there were no trades/collections or digital options to read the books. 

As I have posted before on the boards, in Alberta there has been a large influx of young collectors over the past decade. These collectors focus on the keys and classic covers, and are willing to pay increasing prices for them.  Today there are more than enough multiple print trades and digital sources to cover the need to read storylines. As a result, they buy the trade to read the stories and buy the keys/best covers in the run for their collection.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, kimik said:

Back then there were no trades/collections or digital options to read the books. 

As I have posted before on the boards, in Alberta there has been a large influx of young collectors over the past decade. These collectors focus on the keys and classic covers, and are willing to pay increasing prices for them.  Today there are more than enough multiple print trades and digital sources to cover the need to read storylines. As a result, they buy the trade to read the stories and buy the keys/best covers in the run for their collection.

I agree with what you are saying about the trades, it mirrors my own observation (and practices).

My main point is that the collections a 'generation back' have a flood of books no one is going to want, especially at whatever price an heir or unknowing relative may find in a price guide. I'm dubious as to whether whatever collectors are left in two or three decades can even absorb all of the key issues of the silver age at all, let alone the rest of it.

[kav]

4 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Different world back then.  Let's consider "kids" to be from 8 - 13 year olds which is probably when most of us started reading books or at least were introduced to comics.  Are you saying most comics today (especially book published by the big 2) would not be understood by an 11 year old?  Ever tried to follow some of the anime shows or tried to watch a couple teens playing Magic - they are able to understand and enjoy a whole lot more then you are giving them credit for. 

Comic book sales are in a dive not because of a lack of kids reading books since it's been years since kids were anything but a blimp in the readership of books.  Drop in sales can only be attributed to adults deciding they do not enjoy the books anymore and don't care about maintaining their complete set any longer.

It's not a matter of being understood but being uninteresting.  A kid could read a spiderman or avengers comic in the 60s and it was interesting.  Today's agenda driven comics hold no interest-kids get preached to constantly-at school, at home, they don't wanna read some comic about it.  they just roll their eyes at that stuff.

[Fan Boy1]

2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Does anyone have a child, nephew or niece that is an avid comic book collector or buyer of actual comic books?  I've given my nephew a stack of comics for his 13th birthday a few years ago but I don't think he bought any other.  My daughter has no interest in comics.

My nephew did started read and collected some comics. He come to me for few advices in what he should look to make profit.  I told him to look for keys only. And not to waste on current comics.  If for reading ... He has his tablet to read online for cheap. 

My sister used to read Archies bit not anymore...

I am the only one on family.

[VintageComics]

2 hours ago, Hamlet said:

You must be dealing with different kids than I am.  When I was a kid, schools didn't even start trying to teach reading until 1st or 2nd grade.  Kindergarten was nothing but shapes and colors and numbers.  I didn't learn multiplication until the 3rd grade.

My daughter's preschool started trying to teach her to read and write as soon as she could sit still enough.  She came out of kindergarten being able to read simple books.  She just entered 1st grade, and she is probably at least a year ahead of where I was.  They are teaching her multiplication already.  Her classmates are doing similar things.

I think these kids are pretty smart and accomplished compared to the kids I went to school with.

FYI-- My daughter and I read a lot of Marvel Unlimited on the iPad together.

I wasn't referring to teachers. I was referring to the parents who use digital devices as babysitters.

It's not a teacher's job to establish behavioral patterns. That's on the parent.

My youngest daughter was reading at the age of about 3 and remains an avid reader to this day.

Kids are VERY smart these days as they are exposed to much more with the world at their fingertips, but the social skills being developed and embedded into kids these days are not the same because there is a large reliance on digital interaction and not personal interaction.

Also, my statements are not meant to be a blanket statement for all parents. It's meant for those who rely on digital devices to raise their children. It may or may not be a majority but from my experiences based on kids in the neighborhood there are MANY of them.

[chrisco37]

4 minutes ago, Fan Boy1 said:

Does anyone have a child, nephew or niece that is an avid comic book collector or buyer of actual comic books?

I have two cousins that read comics.  The one is more into Manga books than "American comics".   My other cousin will borrow trades from me occasionally.

I've tried to get my daughter into it and she likes certain books (DC Superhero Girls, Disney Descendants), but not to the point where she's begging to go to the comic store.   What she really liked was the Raina Telgemiere graphic novels (Smile, Sisters, etc...).   She's read those multiple times.  We got my niece into those as well.   My daughter also enjoys the "Dork Diaries" books (which we buy at the LCS). 

All that said, I know she prefers YouTube to any of those. 

[Broke as a Joke]

Wish they had a Paw Patrol comic book, I think my 3 year old would take to that.  The other kids have no interest in comics as a physical form.  They do enjoy the movies, TV shows, etc...

[lizards2]

11 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I wasn't referring to teachers. I was referring to the parents who use digital devices as babysitters.

It's not a teacher's job to establish behavioral patterns. That's on the parent.

 

My wife has been teaching elementary education for 28 years and my daughter for three years.  They do have some success stories, but basically, many kids are already ruined by the time they get to elementary school. 

Most of this is due to no or lack of parenting.  While the parents breed like rabbits, the kids are thrown out in the back yard with the pit bulls and a box of cereal. A lot of the problem has to do with parental use of drugs, and the disintegration of nuclear family. 

My wife has some pretty tough ideas about how to 'cure' this - you can have all the drugs you want, but we're going to sterilize you first.