Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Prince Namor]

3 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

What’s the general opinion about From Hell?

I read it once and found it quite heavy-going and miserable, and have never had the motivation to plough through it again.

I didn’t approach it under ideal circumstances, though, for some unfathomable reason reading it while I had a very bad dose of chicken pox during my mid-thirties, when I should really have been treating myself to something a touch lighter, such as Ambush Bug, maybe?

Kinda tedious, but an interesting angle. 

Haven't reread it. Really enjoying what I've read of his Providence so far. 

[kav]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

WTF are you talking about? No one said anything about any of these characters being real, especially not ME. 

And I'm well aware of how the process works, I explain it to people on a regular basis here who get their panties in a bunch over Captain America becoming a Hydra Agent or Wolverine 'dying'.

In THIS instances I corrected you on something you had no idea of what you were talking about. Plain and simple as that.

I think 'explaining' things to people on a regular basis is the crux of the problem.

[Logan510]

3 minutes ago, WalkOnHomeBoy said:

It just kills you that Moore is the best writer comics has ever seen, huh Vince?

How is that even possible to quantify? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say he's your favorite? 

[Logan510]

Just now, WalkOnHomeBoy said:

You are the best poster I have ever seen! 

Answer the question maybe? 

[kav]

1 hour ago, WalkOnHomeBoy said:

It just kills you that Moore is the best writer comics has ever seen, huh Vince?

Technically comics cannot 'see' anything-they lack a visual apparatus and cortex.

[rjrjr]

I've been digging into the comic piracy site issue.  I found a really good article published last year about it:

http://sktchd.com/longform/money-for-nothing-a-look-at-the-popularity-and-questionable-legality-of-free-comic-sites/

I'm not referring to sites where you can go to download comics in various format, unpack them, and read them.  I'm talking about websites that have the comics that can be read in your browser.  The article above does mention that the publishers are aware of the problem, but so far have been unable to stop these sites.  Apparently they are operating in countries that don't seem to have laws against piracy.  I suspect the numbers cited in that article are low compared to where the numbers are today.

I still feel there is a correlation between the rise of these sites and the dip in new comic sales numbers.  I am hopeful a company like Disney, with deep pockets, is able to find a way to stamp these out.

[Lazyboy]

8 hours ago, rjrjr said:

I've been digging into the comic piracy site issue.  I found a really good article published last year about it:

http://sktchd.com/longform/money-for-nothing-a-look-at-the-popularity-and-questionable-legality-of-free-comic-sites/

I'm not referring to sites where you can go to download comics in various format, unpack them, and read them.  I'm talking about websites that have the comics that can be read in your browser.

What difference does the method make? That article massively exaggerates the risk and effort involved in reading illegally obtained digital comic files.

8 hours ago, rjrjr said:

 The article above does mention that the publishers are aware of the problem, but so far have been unable to stop these sites.  Apparently they are operating in countries that don't seem to have laws against piracy.  I suspect the numbers cited in that article are low compared to where the numbers are today.

Regardless of the numbers from any individual source, I doubt the overall numbers of people reading or books being read for free have changed much over the past few many years.

8 hours ago, rjrjr said:

I still feel there is a correlation between the rise of these sites and the dip in new comic sales numbers.

I don't. See above.

8 hours ago, rjrjr said:

 I am hopeful a company like Disney, with deep pockets, is able to find a way to stamp these out.

Not going to happen. Larger industries have had very limited success shutting down popular sites that hosted or linked to illegally shared content... only to immediately see multiple new sites pop up to take their places each time.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of digital comics, even if they're free.

[Prince Namor]

I wonder HOW much the numbers are actually down....

Ed Brubaker in one of his latest e-mail newsletters said that the numbers he see for the comics he publishes have always been wrong... he was speaking to this in a discussion about comics being 'down' in numbers and how it's seemingly been talked about that way during the 20 years he's been in the business.

We know the numbers we see are Diamond Distribution numbers and that's it.... so I wonder how OFF they are when everything else is added in, including digital?

[ComicConnoisseur]

11 hours ago, rjrjr said:

I've been digging into the comic piracy site issue.  I found a really good article published last year about it:

http://sktchd.com/longform/money-for-nothing-a-look-at-the-popularity-and-questionable-legality-of-free-comic-sites/

I'm not referring to sites where you can go to download comics in various format, unpack them, and read them.  I'm talking about websites that have the comics that can be read in your browser.  The article above does mention that the publishers are aware of the problem, but so far have been unable to stop these sites.  Apparently they are operating in countries that don't seem to have laws against piracy.  I suspect the numbers cited in that article are low compared to where the numbers are today.

I still feel there is a correlation between the rise of these sites and the dip in new comic sales numbers.  I am hopeful a company like Disney, with deep pockets, is able to find a way to stamp these out.

The same thing with movie sites in China. A week after the movie debuts here you can go watch and stream the latest blockbuster from multiple China sites. I don't partake in that activity because of fear of spyware or viruses, but I know plenty of milenials who will watch these blockbusters for free and take the risk.

[Bird]

6 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The same thing with movie sites in China. A week after the movie debuts here you can go watch and stream the latest blockbuster from multiple China sites. I don't partake in that activity because of fear of spyware or viruses, but I know plenty of milenials who will watch these blockbusters for free and take the risk.

As someone who was sued for file sharing by the RIAA (yes, I was and paid them) in the days of Kazaa, I encouraged you to tell them that it can and may catch up to them.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Just now, Bird said:

As someone who was sued for file sharing by the RIAA (yes, I was and paid them) in the days of Kazaa, I encouraged you to tell them that it can and may catch up to them.

Duly noted. 

[StarryNight]

On April 2, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Artboy99 said:

I have been religiously buying 2 characters since 1974: Hulk and Wolverine. Buying everything published, persevering through reboot after reboot and re-numbering.

Currently BOTH of my characters are dead and have been replaced by a woman (She-Hulk and X-23 ) or a teenage boy ( Amadeus Cho ).

It is a strange method indeed of getting a longtime fan to purchase your comics Marvel.

 

Look at the world today. Masculinity is a dying breed.

[kav]

5 hours ago, Bird said:

As someone who was sued for file sharing by the RIAA (yes, I was and paid them) in the days of Kazaa, I encouraged you to tell them that it can and may catch up to them.

Is it file sharing if you merely stream the video?

[romanheart]

On 2017-05-14 at 3:20 AM, rjrjr said:

I've been digging into the comic piracy site issue.  I found a really good article published last year about it:

http://sktchd.com/longform/money-for-nothing-a-look-at-the-popularity-and-questionable-legality-of-free-comic-sites/

I'm not referring to sites where you can go to download comics in various format, unpack them, and read them.  I'm talking about websites that have the comics that can be read in your browser.  The article above does mention that the publishers are aware of the problem, but so far have been unable to stop these sites.  Apparently they are operating in countries that don't seem to have laws against piracy.  I suspect the numbers cited in that article are low compared to where the numbers are today.

I still feel there is a correlation between the rise of these sites and the dip in new comic sales numbers.  I am hopeful a company like Disney, with deep pockets, is able to find a way to stamp these out.

If you buy comics for the sole purpose of reading then it's a problem. Still these methods take up disk space and there are digital services and TPBs that make sense economically and for quality.

As a collector these sites get me hooked on buying more comics for both modern and back issues.

1. I can see the covers and variants and like the story so much that I decide I want a copy. It also steers me away from the drek.

2. I like to read my copies digitally anyway and prefer to preserve my print copies.

3. The more I  read the more I collect. It brings out the completionist tendencies in me.

Edited May 15, 2017 by romanheart

[rjrjr]

15 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

What difference does the method make? That article massively exaggerates the risk and effort involved in reading illegally obtained digital comic files.

Regardless of the numbers from any individual source, I doubt the overall numbers of people reading or books being read for free have changed much over the past few many years.

I don't. See above.

Not going to happen. Larger industries have had very limited success shutting down popular sites that hosted or linked to illegally shared content... only to immediately see multiple new sites pop up to take their places each time.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of digital comics, even if they're free.

I think the difference in the method is huge and a game changer.  Most people won't go out of their way to learn how to download the digital files and unpack them.  Apple products are successful in large part because they make it simple for people to do things digitally like listen to music, play videos, etc.  But a website where you can just read the comics using your browser?

I stumbled across these sites looking for some free online web comics to read.  Depending on the keywords entered, these sites come up at the top of the Google search.  And since they are not buried in the search results, that implies people are using these sites.

Also one of these sites has a reader count at the bottom.  At any given time, they show 2,000 to 2,500 individuals online.  I know these numbers can be fake or exaggerated, but if these numbers are accurate, that is a lot of people using this site.  And that site is just one of a handful that are offering brand new comics for free on the same day they are sold at retail.

I will agree that many, maybe most, comic collectors will not visit these sites over buying the comics.  Or they might visit but still buy the comic.  (Let's face it, the people who visit this forum are collectors, otherwise they wouldn't be here since this forums offers little in the way for people who just like reading comic books.)  But to dismiss this as a small problem I think is a mistake.  We hear all the time that comics are too expensive, people are turning to trades (trade sales are down even more than comics), or readers are just getting their content digitally because it is cheaper, takes up less room, etc.  If price is a factor in a person's decision on buying comics, these sites are an attractive alternative.

Let's say just 5,000 people use these sites instead of buying the comic.  When the top selling comics have a hard time moving 100,000 units, 5,000 people becomes significant.  And for indies which move much, much lower units, the potential loss in revenue is huge.

You are probably right.  We don't hear the publishers talking about piracy as the problem with falling sales.  But if you were a publisher, would you talk about the piracy problem?  I wouldn't, because it would just make more people aware of the alternative, especially those that are bemoaning the prices of current comics.  As you said, trying to shutdown these sites just results in more popping up, raising their awareness for people who don't have any qualms about using them versus paying for the content.

[kav]

On 5/7/2017 at 2:20 PM, Ken Aldred said:

 

Here's some top, value-for-money reading material, Kav, from my all-time favourite comicbook company...

 

 

 

In case anyone wants to find out what happens to ol harry:
https://comics.ha.com/itm/memorabilia/ec-shock-suspenstories-13-squeeze-play-complete-frank-frazetta-story-silverprint-proof-group-ec-1954-total-7-items-/a/7097-91426.s

[ygogolak]

Grabbed this from another comics site. Good read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/05/the-real-reasons-for-marvel-comics-woes/527127/?utm_source=atlfb

[Lucky Baru]

32 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Grabbed this from another comics site. Good read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/05/the-real-reasons-for-marvel-comics-woes/527127/?utm_source=atlfb

That's an insightful article.  Thanks for posting the link.

[1Cool]

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

Grabbed this from another comics site. Good read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/05/the-real-reasons-for-marvel-comics-woes/527127/?utm_source=atlfb

It's way to long - can you give me a summary of the conclusions?  I skimmed and think he blames constant reboots for Marvel's issues but I may have missed something in the body of the text.

Edited May 24, 2017 by 1Cool

[SteppinRazor]

29 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

It's way to long - can you give me a summary of the conclusions?  I skimmed and think he blames constant reboots for Marvel's issues but I may have missed something in the body of the text.

1- The preorder system sets up new comics for failure (Dealers preorder comics to sell, Marvel and DC base sales figures off preorders, can cancel a series based on that even before release date)

2- Marvel constantly resets with #1s, exacerbating both the problem of #1 above, plus destroys any coherence of story, which is the actual thing that creates sales

3- Marvel constantly changing creative teams drives readers away because if you don't commit to a team, readers aren't going to commit to a story

4- Marvel's marketing team is worse than the Cleveland Browns. 

Quote

Quote: Marvel’s unexpected success stories, like Kelly Sue DeConnick’s

Captain Marvel, are largely built on the tireless efforts of the creators themselves. (In Deconnick’s case, she paid for postcards, dog tags, and fliers for fan engagement out of her own pocket, for a character she didn’t own or have a real expectation of royalties from.)

5- Parent companies don't care, they just bought Marvel/DC as intellectual property farms.

Edited May 24, 2017 by SteppinRazor