9.8 with so many issues -- is this common? 1 1

[lou_fine]

10 hours ago, NamesJay said:

9.8 with so many issues -- is this common?

Someone posted a book the other day with a 9.8 grade with grader notes. I was surprised such a high grade had grader notes so I inquired as to what the notes were.

They were as follows:

• very light spine stress lines to cover
• very light staple recessed top of spine
• very light wear right top of back cover

 

Certainly hope this was not a MA book with this amount of defects for a 9.8 graded book.  If it is, then it must have been very very loosely graded.

Especially when I have seen GA books graded towards the latter part of 2016 with only the first and third of your defects noted above come back as only 8.5 graded books, even though I could not see any obvious defects from just the cover scans. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by lou_fine

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, jcjames said:

 

 

I have a graded 9.6 with eight cb-spine ticks and a couple tiny non-cb ticks as well. 

 

What you are witnessing on a 9.6 with eight CB-spine ticks is the result of a press fading away. Your 9.6 morphed into a 9.2(or less) while in the slab. Don't blame the graders or CGC, they saw a 9.6 at the time of grading. 

[Philflound]

11 hours ago, NamesJay said:

9.8 with so many issues -- is this common?

Someone posted a book the other day with a 9.8 grade with grader notes. I was surprised such a high grade had grader notes so I inquired as to what the notes were.

They were as follows:

• very light spine stress lines to cover
• very light staple recessed top of spine
• very light wear right top of back cover

Doesn't this seem like a high amount of notes for a book? This was a 9.4 that was sent to CCS for pressing and came back as a 9.8 with these notes.

 

 

That spine stress could be non cb since it doesn't mention it and possibly only 1 stress line. It could then be conceivable that the very light wear is a very very small scuff mark. Unless a photo is shown of the book, you won't know how bad the smallest of these defects really are. I think it's good to have defects on 9.8s so the submitters know the book can't be a 9.9 or 10.0. 9.8s have a flaw or two, so why not note exactly what they are?

It's also possible the pregrader gave it a 9.6 and the finalizer didn't feel the defects were really that bad.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Philflound

[jcjames]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

What you are witnessing on a 9.6 with eight CB-spine ticks is the result of a press fading away. Your 9.6 morphed into a 9.2(or less) while in the slab. Don't blame the graders or CGC, they saw a 9.6 at the time of grading. 

It was never pressed.

 

[KryptoMayor]

I was discussing spine stress with someone else on the board recently. CGC doesn't explain their grading methods, but I do believe they consider the length of the CB and very short creases don't go against the book as hard as many collectors believe it should. But then again, that's just my  and what I've seen in graded books I've examined. 

[letsgrumble]

Recent purchase:

Looks nice, right?

Good from afar, but far from good.

Here's a closer look:

A book graded 9.8 with a spine tick or two is acceptable. However, there's 10+ spine ticks here; some with tiny colour breaks.

If this is a 9.8, then I have plenty of 9.9/10 books in 9.8 cases.

While I take it as an outlier, it shows that you can't make any assumptions about a graded book - especially those in the higher grades.

[lizards2]

1 hour ago, letsgrumble said:

Recent purchase:

Looks nice, right?

Good from afar, but far from good.

Here's a closer look:

A book graded 9.8 with a spine tick or two is acceptable. However, there's 10+ spine ticks here; some with tiny colour breaks.

If this is a 9.8, then I have plenty of 9.9/10 books in 9.8 cases.

While I take it as an outlier, it shows that you can't make any assumptions about a graded book - especially those in the higher grades.

I used to always buy copies of books with white spine bar showing - it does great at "hiding" the defects.

[namisgr]

On 5/5/2017 at 1:00 PM, NamesJay said:

9.8 with so many issues -- is this common?

 

Doesn't this seem like a high amount of notes for a book? This was a 9.4 that was sent to CCS for pressing and came back as a 9.8 with these notes.

 

 

No appearance of conflict of interest here.  

[Drbearsec]

So is this an ongoing issue or is it in the recent past?  I ask cause I'm curious if it is worth cracking a 9.8 or 9.9 to get a signature on the chance it could get graded worse.

[ygogolak]

Grader's Notes on a 9.8?

[CKB]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:18 AM, letsgrumble said:

Recent purchase:

Looks nice, right?

Good from afar, but far from good.

Here's a closer look:

A book graded 9.8 with a spine tick or two is acceptable. However, there's 10+ spine ticks here; some with tiny colour breaks.

If this is a 9.8, then I have plenty of 9.9/10 books in 9.8 cases.

While I take it as an outlier, it shows that you can't make any assumptions about a graded book - especially those in the higher grades.

I have to say I am good with this grade on a book from 1976.  It's all speculation but many of us feel that there is a sliding scale at CGC for age, and you are allowed more defects in-grade based on the age of a book.  If you further consider how this book was bundled when distributed and the paper stock used, it's not a unreasonable idea.  Would I rather have a copy of this in 9.8 with an accumulation of defects that were better hidden inside the slab - of course!

If this was a modern I would certainly agree with you, though.

In all cases "buy the book not the label" applies.

 

[SteppinRazor]

On 5/6/2017 at 0:28 PM, namisgr said:

No appearance of conflict of interest here.  

I didn't want to say it, being new here

[valiantman]

Amazing Spider-man #300 is submitted quite often, with hundreds of submissions per year.

Here are the rates for CGC 9.8 according to the CGC Census over the past 17+ years.

We could say that pressing is the difference, but we know that pressing is a good way to damage Harbinger #1 (1992).

Here is the same chart for Harbinger #1.

[Pirate]

I thought known production problems didn't affect grade.

[VintageComics]

On 2017-05-05 at 11:36 PM, lou_fine said:

On 2017-05-05 at 1:00 PM, NamesJay said:

9.8 with so many issues -- is this common?

Someone posted a book the other day with a 9.8 grade with grader notes. I was surprised such a high grade had grader notes so I inquired as to what the notes were.

They were as follows:

• very light spine stress lines to cover
• very light staple recessed top of spine
• very light wear right top of back cover

 

Certainly hope this was not a MA book with this amount of defects for a 9.8 graded book.  If it is, then it must have been very very loosely graded.

Especially when I have seen GA books graded towards the latter part of 2016 with only the first and third of your defects noted above come back as only 8.5 graded books, even though I could not see any obvious defects from just the cover scans. 

You guys are over reacting.

CGC graders now put more notes down than they every used to. It's been happening for a few years now (it all depends on the grading team).

It's the size of the defect that matters.

I've seen notes calling out defects that are hardly visible to the naked eye.

Don't judge a book by the grading notes alone.

[VintageComics]

On 2017-05-06 at 1:28 AM, jcjames said:

On 2017-05-06 at 0:23 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

What you are witnessing on a 9.6 with eight CB-spine ticks is the result of a press fading away. Your 9.6 morphed into a 9.2(or less) while in the slab. Don't blame the graders or CGC, they saw a 9.6 at the time of grading. 

It was never pressed.

@Bomber-Bob - I have no idea why you throw comments out like this.

1st, it's not obvious that a press 'faded away' because the book may not have been pressed at all (as is the case here).

You don't know if the book incurred damage in some way over the course of it's life

And you don't know if the book was simply over-graded to begin with.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

@Bomber-Bob - I have no idea why you throw comments out like this.

1st, it's not obvious that a press 'faded away' because the book may not have been pressed at all (as is the case here).

You don't know if the book incurred damage in some way over the course of it's life

And you don't know if the book was simply over-graded to begin with.

 

Roy, I admit I erred with the presentation of my statement. I did not intend it as a statement of fact, only an opinion as to what may have happened.

Remember, I am a collector and I hang on to my books for a long time. I have experienced similar incidents on my books. It's very disheartening to to put a book into a safety deposit box as an 8.0 and come back 6 months later to see it morph into a 7.0 . It happens. Also, I have never seen a book incur CB spine ticks from slab damage. I have seen edge tears, chips falling off, dents, and all the other usual SCS  results but never spine ticks, especially 6 of them. But, I suppose it can happen.

On a personal level, I don't appreciate your introductory statement implying I habitually 'throw' comments out. Especially from a person who seems to have expertise on nearly every topic. If you have a problem with my comments then either hit the mod button or reply to me in a respectful manner.

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

On a personal level, I don't appreciate your introductory statement implying I habitually 'throw' comments out. Especially from a person who seems to have expertise on nearly every topic. If you have a problem with my comments then either hit the mod button or reply to me in a respectful manner.

Bob, it's not the first time you threw out a blanket statement as a statement of fact. In fact you admit above that it wasn't well stated:

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I admit I erred with the presentation of my statement. I did not intend it as a statement of fact

But regardless, it's not a moderator issue. It's just a disagreement between the way we perceive things or write things, and it's not a big deal as long as people realize that your statement is a statement of fact but rather it's one possibility.

If I'm wrong somewhere I'm happy to discuss it and admit it.

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I have never seen a book incur CB spine ticks from slab damage.

I have. It depends on the type of damage.

In the case above where there are several color breaking spine ticks present  across the entire spine I agree that it's unlikely that those appeared in the holder.

Dropping a book and incurring SCS can incur ticks or transverse stresses on a spine. Storing a slab incorrectly and having it bend over time can incur a bend in the book / spine incurring ticks as well.