Getting silly... 0

[Dogsupreme]

Getting silly...

Ok, I think this needs to be addressed.

I've noticed now that collector's and dealers are saying articles and ads are counting as 1st appearances. I think this is getting out of hand. It should always be in the official capacity of which they debuted in a story.

Do you agree or do you think that non-story debuts count as official first appearances?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Dogsupreme

[Artboy99]

Anything to sell a comic it seems. First appearance is in the comic only in my opinion, so NO the advert in DD 115 of the Wolverine does not count.

[Ken Aldred]

This recent trend does seem a bit desperate.

[ygogolak]

Is there an industry accepted definition of 1st appearance anywhere? If not, it's all opinion.

[Ken Aldred]

From what I've read online, a common definition is 'The market has spoken' .  

I wish there was greater consistency, however.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[FineCollector]

That's an example of people manufacturing keys to make their drek "worth" more.

[Martin Sinescu]

Definitely very strong opinions both ways that have been vigorously argued on these boards. I think there's some value in the first actual print appearance even if it is out of continuity, but more as a curiosity than anything else. I certainly don't put much stock in it beyond that.

[classicaaron]

comic only appearances are all that count.  preview books or an ad in another comic do not equal a first appearance.  basically like they say a sucker is born every minute and dealers know it so they will try to hype anything up.

[Martin Sinescu]

It's not just dealers hyping them. Plenty of collectors out there want the glory of uncovering a "hidden gem" such as these obscure appearances. It's similar to investing in an unknown company's stock and being able to say you were ahead of the curve if it pays off.

[Lazyboy]

4 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

Anything to sell a comic it seems. First appearance is in the comic only in my opinion, so NO the advert in DD 115 of the Wolverine does not count.

It wouldn't anyway.

I am so sick of hearing about the Incredible Hulk 181 house ads. Incredible Hulk 180 predated all of them. Incredible Hulk 181 predated two of the three and had the same release date as Daredevil 115.

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

From what I've read online, a common definition is 'The market has spoken' .  

I wish there was greater consistency, however.

The market speaks all the time... about prices. Those prices are also influenced by supply and other reasons for demand that aren't related to the first appearance in question.

The market never says anything about first appearances.

[F For Fake]

2 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

From what I've read online, a common definition is 'The market has spoken' .  

I wish there was greater consistency, however.

And for better or worse, this is the truth. All that really matters is what people are throwing the most money at. 

(Except Hulk 180, which really is Wolvie's first appearance, by god!)

[Ken Aldred]

51 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

And for better or worse, this is the truth. All that really matters is what people are throwing the most money at. 

(Except Hulk 180, which really is Wolvie's first appearance, by god!)

Yup.

Even if the ad was attractively presented in a nice frame, I would still prefer my Hulk 180 9.4, attractively presented in its plastic slab.

[ygogolak]

3 hours ago, FineCollector said:

That's an example of people manufacturing keys to make their drek "worth" more.

 

3 hours ago, classicaaron said:

comic only appearances are all that count.  preview books or an ad in another comic do not equal a first appearance.  basically like they say a sucker is born every minute and dealers know it so they will try to hype anything up.

These are your opinions, but you are stating them as fact.  The fact that there is not an industry-wide consensus on the definition tells you all you need to know. Who would even be the deciding authority?

[mrwoogieman]

Didn't the back issue market settle this debate long, long ago when, for example, the comics that had house ads for Superman or Batman (before Action 1 or Tec 27 were published) did not override those issues in terms of price? Such depictions are interesting but they are not true "first appearances". That same analysis should apply to previews, ads, etc. 

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, ygogolak said:

 

These are your opinions, but you are stating them as fact.  The fact that there is not an industry-wide consensus on the definition tells you all you need to know. Who would even be the deciding authority?

But there is and has been for years. Show us the first time that advertising material of any type was referred to as a first appearance in any comic-related publication.

[rjrjr]

5 hours ago, classicaaron said:

comic only appearances are all that count.  preview books or an ad in another comic do not equal a first appearance.  basically like they say a sucker is born every minute and dealers know it so they will try to hype anything up.

I collect comic books, not magazines about comics.  If others want to spend their hard earned money on an issue of Previews (most modern 1st appearance are in Diamond's Previews magazine) then more power to them.  I'll still collect comic books.  I'm guessing this is true of 99% of comic collectors.

Edited June 1, 2017 by rjrjr

[rjrjr]

1 minute ago, Lazyboy said:

But there is and has been for years. Show us the first time that advertising material of any type was referred to as a first appearance in any comic-related publication.

It seems kind of self serving, doesn't it?  Imagine Wizard magazine claiming the first appearance of a character occurred in a previous issue of Wizard magazine.

[Lethal_Collector]

A 1st app that isn't a storyline issue?   Anything to sell a book....

 

Jerome

[FineCollector]

2 hours ago, ygogolak said:

 

These are your opinions, but you are stating them as fact.  The fact that there is not an industry-wide consensus on the definition tells you all you need to know. Who would even be the deciding authority?

(Edit, someone already mentioned Previews! )

Trading cards have it right... Crosby has a card with his junior team, the Rimouski Oceanic, but it's not a rookie card because he hadn't played in the pros yet.  Same should go for comics: advertising is advertising, but a first appearance doesn't count until it's in a story.  I hate that we have to argue this.

Edited June 1, 2017 by FineCollector