Strategies in collecting runs: Keys first or non-keys first? 1 1

[jcjames]

8 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

great advice if your budget allows for that type of purchase.

If I did that, I would be buying one or two (possibly none) comics a year. That would not be a lot of fun.

I assumed the OP was interested in completing runs, and the most cost-effective means (if budget is important) is to buy keys first and filler as you go. Keys generally appreciate in value at a faster rate than the filler (though some filler can suddenly pop if it contains an obscure 1st appearance or event that suddenly becomes hot). But most nonkey fillers are not unreachable even if you do find and buy a key every once in a while. 

Let's say at the beginning of this year one was trying to complete a McFarlane ASM298-328 run, buying #300 six months ago would have been a good way to start it (especially since it has exploded in value now and will likely no come down much at all for a long time). Sure, you'd have had to come up with a couple hundred to for a decent copy to start which might have put the rest of the run on hold, but the others even though they're increasing, haven't increased as much as the keys in that run.

If one's goals are different than completing the runs on a budget (say just to read the storylines), then TPB and Ominbus collections will scratch that itch. But if one doesn't have the budget for the keys right now, then obviously the OP's question itself is moot.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by jcjames

[jcjames]

2 hours ago, FineCollector said:

All due respect, there's a difference between buying long boxes of bulk indiscriminately, and coming home with a box of cheap books you picked individually because you like them and want them.

I tried buying only one or two high end books when I was younger, but you'd get home, read it, bag it, and ten minutes later say... okay... that's done then.  When you're down to the last few comics to finish your collection, I'm sure it's a great joy, but when you still have many wants as I do, it's not rewarding.

"Quality over quantity" is the worst thing I've heard since joining the boards.  That logic says that you should buy a third copy of Captain America 117 before picking up your first set of Cap 118-125, and you'd be wrong.  Cap 122 is a fantastic example of Gene Colan's art, where Cap is trudging back to his apartment over several pages, questioning his place in the world, but the way it's presented is moving and brilliant.  It hasn't been broken out in the guide, so that's just "quantity" to many of you, but if they put that scene in a movie, and the price spiked, suddenly it would be a "quality" book.  Please stop equating cost to quality.

"Quantity is its own quality" is just as much a choice as "Quality over quantity".

It's really a matter of perspective and preference and comes down to what the collector personally views is "quality" for their own collection.  

And why would you assume that a collector, whose goal is to complete a run, would buy a 3rd copy of CA117 instead of completing their run first? Holding the "quality over quantity" perspective doesn't mean that a run-collector must buy multiple "quality" keys before completing their runs.

Everyone has their own "way" of collecting, and most have tried several ways over the years. The OP was asking for opinions and they will differ. 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

2 hours ago, FineCollector said:

"Quality over quantity" is the worst thing I've heard since joining the boards.  That logic says that you should buy a third copy of Captain America 117 before picking up your first set of Cap 118-125, and you'd be wrong.

One could say that buying that third copy of Captain America 117 may have paid for a set  of Cap 118-125 when sold.

The bottom line is the quality book will always be much more sought after than commons.

A Hulk #181 is much more desirable and sought after than a combined run of Hulk #200 to #320,just like a 1909 S VDB Lincoln penny is more valuable and desirable than 1000 common modern Lincoln pennies.

Edited June 6, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[shadroch]

3 hours ago, FineCollector said:

All due respect, there's a difference between buying long boxes of bulk indiscriminately, and coming home with a box of cheap books you picked individually because you like them and want them.

I tried buying only one or two high end books when I was younger, but you'd get home, read it, bag it, and ten minutes later say... okay... that's done then.  When you're down to the last few comics to finish your collection, I'm sure it's a great joy, but when you still have many wants as I do, it's not rewarding.

"Quality over quantity" is the worst thing I've heard since joining the boards.  That logic says that you should buy a third copy of Captain America 117 before picking up your first set of Cap 118-125, and you'd be wrong.  Cap 122 is a fantastic example of Gene Colan's art, where Cap is trudging back to his apartment over several pages, questioning his place in the world, but the way it's presented is moving and brilliant.  It hasn't been broken out in the guide, so that's just "quantity" to many of you, but if they put that scene in a movie, and the price spiked, suddenly it would be a "quality" book.  Please stop equating cost to quality.

 You buy your Cap 118-125 and I will buy my third copy of Cap 117. I wouldn't presume to tell you you are wrong.  If you choose to believe every book is equal, go for it.

[the blob]

19 hours ago, NoMan said:

In all seriousness Blob what's the contact info for your shop if you do mail order? Not seeing it on your profile. 

I'm taking a break and pulling back right now.  Time constraints. my real job wants me to do a lot of work.. people leave and don't get replaced.  trying to avoid a full blown coronary incident.

[the blob]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

 You buy your Cap 118-125 and I will buy my third copy of Cap 117. I wouldn't presume to tell you you are wrong.  If you choose to believe every book is equal, go for it.

or get lucky and buy 10 copies each of strange tales 178-181 every time you see them in a $2 or less box, not even knowing they might be semi-keys (seriously, 11th appearance of warlock and 10th appearance of thanos didn't seem like a big deal at the time), just because you love starlin goodness

 

[01TheDude]

8 hours ago, FineCollector said:

All due respect, there's a difference between buying long boxes of bulk indiscriminately, and coming home with a box of cheap books you picked individually because you like them and want them.

I tried buying only one or two high end books when I was younger, but you'd get home, read it, bag it, and ten minutes later say... okay... that's done then.  When you're down to the last few comics to finish your collection, I'm sure it's a great joy, but when you still have many wants as I do, it's not rewarding.

"Quality over quantity" is the worst thing I've heard since joining the boards.  That logic says that you should buy a third copy of Captain America 117 before picking up your first set of Cap 118-125, and you'd be wrong.  Cap 122 is a fantastic example of Gene Colan's art, where Cap is trudging back to his apartment over several pages, questioning his place in the world, but the way it's presented is moving and brilliant.  It hasn't been broken out in the guide, so that's just "quantity" to many of you, but if they put that scene in a movie, and the price spiked, suddenly it would be a "quality" book.  Please stop equating cost to quality.

I only mentioned that "quality over quantity" as it pertains to collectors who are investment focused. I have never really collected this way but the same rules apply to any type of investing. My main method has always been to try to find bargain keys while I continue to pick up the filler books of a run at reasonable prices. In the end-- sure, you might be left without five or six books missing from the run that are clearly high priced (at any grade) keys. But that is where one can learn to live with reprints, TPB, Omnis, etc.

It almost seems foolish to go after certain books that are at nosebleed levels to me. I can be patient and wait for the prices to come back to reality or for my financial circumstances to catch up to wants. In a way, it keeps you sort of grounded like when you were a kid collecting and so many books were outside your reach. I covet those books but I am not going to do something nuts to get them.

 

I suppose I could go out on a limb and buy books that are beyond my budget. But I am more responsible than that

[shadroch]

Or you could get a bigger budget.    It's not a spending problem, it's a "not having enough to spend" problem.

[01TheDude]

7 hours ago, jcjames said:

I assumed the OP was interested in completing runs, and the most cost-effective means (if budget is important) is to buy keys first and filler as you go. Keys generally appreciate in value at a faster rate than the filler (though some filler can suddenly pop if it contains an obscure 1st appearance or event that suddenly becomes hot). But most nonkey fillers are not unreachable even if you do find and buy a key every once in a while. 

Let's say at the beginning of this year one was trying to complete a McFarlane ASM298-328 run, buying #300 six months ago would have been a good way to start it (especially since it has exploded in value now and will likely no come down much at all for a long time). Sure, you'd have had to come up with a couple hundred to for a decent copy to start which might have put the rest of the run on hold, but the others even though they're increasing, haven't increased as much as the keys in that run.

If one's goals are different than completing the runs on a budget (say just to read the storylines), then TPB and Ominbus collections will scratch that itch. But if one doesn't have the budget for the keys right now, then obviously the OP's question itself is moot.

 

What you're saying makes total sense. I just find the approach of expecting that you will own that key in a specific run as myopic. When I came back to collecting, I was buying books for the fun of it-- finding some good deals on books I always wished I could have had as a kid. Then you look at the list and realize you could finish a run--- sort of a vicious cycle. I'm not about to spend thousands of dollars for an original copy of something I have had in TPB form since the 1970s (Fireside TPBs for example). But spending a few hundred here and there every year to complete runs is FUN. I really knew nothing about the Miller DD run because I quit collecting right before he started.  But a handful of books that were part of a lot I bought led me down that path (#168 continues to elude me). I'm starting to worry if this sickness (for lack of a better word) will continue as I work on the early Strange Tales books as that will no doubt lead me into FF or Shield collecting.

Anyway - run collecting is great fun. If you are not too concerned that you are missing some key books here and there, especially if that content can be found via reprints, gathering together the books can be quite interesting.

Edited June 6, 2017 by 01TheDude

[01TheDude]

4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Or you could get a bigger budget.    It's not a spending problem, it's a "not having enough to spend" problem.

I'm happy being a small time collector. I have some nice stuff that is worth some money probably, most of it obtained pre-1979.

But I can't stomach ever spending that much money on a single comic book.

[90sChild]

18 hours ago, jcjames said:

As so many others have said, the keys will most likely be disproportionately much more expensive years from now compared to the filler which will always be around and always be affordable.

Keys first, filler as you go.

 

What happens when the key has already become disproportionately overpriced?  In my example earlier, I dont think a book like dr strange #169 or iron man #1 will ever continue its growth at a level comparable to other 1st appearances.  So in those situatioms do you wait for a price drop?  Or do you get it anyway?

[oakman29]

Man, you guys make this pretty difficult. It's not so hard really. Save up for the big books in the run, and the rest of the run will follow suit.

As far as TPB's for the keys? Doesn't scratch that itch when your building a run.

[kav]

41 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

Man, you guys make this pretty difficult. It's not so hard really. Save up for the big books in the run, and the rest of the run will follow suit.

As far as TPB's for the keys? Doesn't scratch that itch when your building a run.

And Oak knows about itches-he deals in bees, mister.

[oakman29]

Just now, kav said:

And Oak knows about itches-he deals in bees, mister.

Bwahahaha!

[jcjames]

5 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

What you're saying makes total sense. I just find the approach of expecting that you will own that key in a specific run as myopic. When I came back to collecting, I was buying books for the fun of it-- finding some good deals on books I always wished I could have had as a kid. Then you look at the list and realize you could finish a run--- sort of a vicious cycle. I'm not about to spend thousands of dollars for an original copy of something I have had in TPB form since the 1970s (Fireside TPBs for example). But spending a few hundred here and there every year to complete runs is FUN. I really knew nothing about the Miller DD run because I quit collecting right before he started.  But a handful of books that were part of a lot I bought led me down that path (#168 continues to elude me). I'm starting to worry if this sickness (for lack of a better word) will continue as I work on the early Strange Tales books as that will no doubt lead me into FF or Shield collecting.

Anyway - run collecting is great fun. If you are not too concerned that you are missing some key books here and there, especially if that content can be found via reprints, gathering together the books can be quite interesting.

Different strokes I guess. Funny thing is that it was when I was trying to complete my DD runs that I realized I could do without the complete runs and actually preferred to focus on the keys. Same thing with FF actually. It was trying to complete the FF and DD sets that I decided that for myself, I was much more of a "quality over quantity" collector. Probably comes from my childhood when I couldn't get many comicbooks on a regular basis so I learned to cherish the few that I had. Now that I'm old enough to afford long runs, as I started to acquire them, I felt I didn't really want longboxes full of many books, I still prefer fewer. To each his own, collect what you enjoy and enjoy what you collect!

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by jcjames

[jcjames]

4 hours ago, 90sChild said:

What happens when the key has already become disproportionately overpriced?  In my example earlier, I dont think a book like dr strange #169 or iron man #1 will ever continue its growth at a level comparable to other 1st appearances.  So in those situatioms do you wait for a price drop?  Or do you get it anyway?

Well in some situations like you mention, if the price has been holding fairly steady for several years (like IM 1) indicating stable demand, then there's no rush to buy so shop around a while for a good deal, but don't expect the floor to drop out of it for no apparent reason. For others that have had a recent run-up in price the past year or so (like DS 169), a little research might show that book is cooling down a bit (may not go down to pre-2015 levels) so again, shop around for the best deal with no rush.  Books that have just recently "popped" are usually likely to have at least some drawback in price, but since no one has a crystal ball, you can never know for sure.

 

[01TheDude]

6 hours ago, oakman29 said:

Man, you guys make this pretty difficult. It's not so hard really. Save up for the big books in the run, and the rest of the run will follow suit.

As far as TPB's for the keys? Doesn't scratch that itch when your building a run.

A decent reprint works for me- helps if they are the first reprint of that book, like from Marvel Tales, Marvel Super Heroes, Worlds Greatest Comics, etc. So for the handful of DD books I am missing from my 1-204 run (namely 1-7, 131, and 168), getting MSH 22-27 helps out, my Marvel Origins works for #1, and the hunt for decent copies of 131/168 keeps me occupied. If I had the kind of money readily available for some of those early big books-- I am not sure I would throw it down without hesitation. I guess I lack any itch requiring scratching beyond reading the story.

Like you said though-- collect how you like to do it. There is no "right" way. No one will think less of you if you don't have all the keys and if they do, I doubt I care.

[01TheDude]

3 hours ago, jcjames said:

Different strokes I guess. Funny thing is that it was when I was trying to complete my DD runs that I realized I could do without the complete runs and actually preferred to focus on the keys. Same thing with FF actually. It was trying to complete the FF and DD sets that I decided that for myself, I was much more of a "quality over quantity" collector. Probably comes from my childhood when I couldn't get many comicbooks on a regular basis so I learned to cherish the few that I had. Now that I'm old enough to afford long runs, as I started to acquire them, I felt I didn't really want longboxes full of many books, I still prefer fewer. To each his own, collect what you enjoy and enjoy what you collect!

 

I probably have a long box of Thor and one of Daredevil now. Everything else is short box or less for the runs I am working on. I rarely go beyond very early copper age, save the Miller run of DD.

[Fan Boy]

On 2017-06-04 at 11:08 AM, Shaolingoat said:

I would agree with this approach as well.  While my sample size after getting back into collecting is much smaller (mostly limited to high grade SA Avengers), I'm of a similar mindset.  The last few years, I've split my collecting funds into a monthly budget for the more common non-keys while stockpiling a rainy day fund for the keys like #1, 4, 57 and the rarer books in high grade like #3.  

I'll second the notion that the filler books tend to hang around, but when a key pops up at the right price--you jump on it if you can.

I did the same path like what you do. Especially the last sentence! But sometimes when a key book come in a very nice or at the highest grade ... I have to step up to get it and be done. Then I can't say myself regarding how I miss it in miserable mood. 

 

[TeddieMercede]

On 6/5/2017 at 11:27 PM, Hudson said:

Years ago, as I was putting together my run of Action Comics, a guy said to me, "People who buy a complete run of Actions, buy Action 1 as their first book or the last book." (paraphrased).

I thought, this guy has no clue what he is talking about.

I went on collecting, many times turning down #1s that came across my path (that I could afford), as I continued to fill out my collection.  THIS WAS A COSTLY MISTAKE.

Perhaps the old guy was right.  I eventually put together the entire run from #2 on up (yes every one of them) and yet still I do not have a #1 (and regrettably I doubt I ever will, as the investor money has flooded the game and made such key books equal to owning a home).

I would recommend two things.  Going for the keys first and buying the best you can afford (unless you just want to read them and have no interest in their value moving forward).

Maybe I am off base here, however, those are my thoughts, for what it is worth.

That really stinks and I feel for you as a collector - hope someday youre able to finish it up.