JIM 83 Question 1 1

[Ecranu]

Hi Folks,

If trading a Hulk 181 9.0, what would be the value equivalent, for a graded JIM 83?

Thanks in advance!

 

[kav]

2.5, 3.0

[Tony S]

This is assuming the books are CGC graded. If they are not then you enter an element of uncertainty in any trade. It is easy to overestimate the grade of a book - especially so when talking 9.0 and better. 

CGC graded, the most comparable trade  would be Hulk 181 in 9.0 for a JIM 83 in 3.5 

GPA lists an average selling price of Hulk 181 in 9.0 as $3181

GPA lists a 90 day average selling price from JIM 83 as $3253

Edited June 27, 2017 by Tony S

[comicquant]

4 hours ago, kav said:

2.5, 3.0

+1 (nice 2.5 or 3.0).  If I were the one trading away the JIM83 I would certainly factor in 1500 on the census vs the 181's 9500 on the census.  I know you're asking for a value comparison but there's no way I'd let a 2.5/3.0 JIM83 go for a 181 9.0.  You can find a few dozen raw 181's on eBay that would grade a 9.0 or better.  Thats just me though. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by comicquant

[Tony S]

1 hour ago, comicquant said:

+1 (nice 2.5 or 3.0).  If I were the one trading away the JIM83 I would certainly factor in 1500 on the census vs the 181's 9500 on the census.  I know you're asking for a value comparison but there's no way I'd let a 2.5/3.0 JIM83 go for a 181 9.0.  You can find a few dozen raw 181's on eBay that would grade a 9.0 or better.  Thats just me though. 

But what are those potential raw 9.0 181's selling for? And are they 9.0's? Or nice looking 7.5-8.0's? There is a reason why experienced collectors prefer keys to be professionally graded. 

My own experience is with a book like Hulk 181 that has so much demand, that raw copies will often sell for more than what they would professionally graded on eBay. Because people on eBay look at the pictures and conclude decide (hope/pray/wish) the book is a higher grade than it is. 

GPA prices I quoted are what the books are actually selling for, RIGHT NOW. It's not a price guide, but actual, real time sales. If one of the parties isn't interested in a Fair Market Value trade, then the other party should just sell their book and use the cash to purchase a CGC graded copy of the book they want at auction

Edited June 27, 2017 by Tony S

[comicquant]

8 hours ago, Tony S said:

But what are those potential raw 9.0 181's selling for? And are they 9.0's? Or nice looking 7.5-8.0's? There is a reason why experienced collectors prefer keys to be professionally graded. 

My own experience is with a book like Hulk 181 that has so much demand, that raw copies will often sell for more than what they would professionally graded on eBay. Because people on eBay look at the pictures and conclude decide (hope/pray/wish) the book is a higher grade than it is. 

GPA prices I quoted are what the books are actually selling for, RIGHT NOW. It's not a price guide, but actual, real time sales. If one of the parties isn't interested in a Fair Market Value trade, then the other party should just sell their book and use the cash to purchase a CGC graded copy of the book they want at auction

There's an intrinsic collectibility factor built into every book.  Go out and poll how many people would trade their 181 for a JIM83 or their JIM83 for a 181.  I bet its extremely lopsided in favor of getting a JIM83 for a Hulk 181.  In addition he's talking about a trade which gives a buffer up or down on value and will definitely include the collectibility factor.  At some point in the negotiations the words, "Ya but this is a mega key" will be spoken.  I can guarantee it.  As for raw books, I buy 90% of my books raw then submit them to be graded.  I can think of two or three times out of hundreds of books that I've been off by more than .5.  And hey, if you have a 3.5 Jim83 I've got a 9.0 181 with your name on it.

[Tony S]

14 hours ago, comicquant said:

There's an intrinsic collectibility factor built into every book.  Go out and poll how many people would trade their 181 for a JIM83 or their JIM83 for a 181.  I bet its extremely lopsided in favor of getting a JIM83 for a Hulk 181.  In addition he's talking about a trade which gives a buffer up or down on value and will definitely include the collectibility factor.  At some point in the negotiations the words, "Ya but this is a mega key" will be spoken.  I can guarantee it.  As for raw books, I buy 90% of my books raw then submit them to be graded.  I can think of two or three times out of hundreds of books that I've been off by more than .5.  And hey, if you have a 3.5 Jim83 I've got a 9.0 181 with your name on it.

What you have just explained quite well explains quite well why I don't like to trade. Many people like to interject intangibles like "my book is more important/more key than yours". When in fact Fair Market Value is Fair Market value.   So if I want a book and I need to turn one or more books to get that book, I prefer to sell and go buy with cash. Because THERE ARE NO INTANGIBLES ABOUT CASH.  My $2500 in cash is worth $2500 cash. Someone else's $2500 cash isn't somehow "better" . And for the example being discussed, Hulk 181 is a ridiculously easy expensive book to sell.  Just as easy to sell as JIM 83. 

I remember being at show a couple of  years ago where a dealer traded a nice, higher grade early FF  for three NM copies of NM 98. Value wise the trade was pretty close to even. Some dealers and collectors thought him nuts. Not me. By the end of the show he had all three NM 98's sold . He probably was taking the FF back home with him. 

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Tony S

[Knightsofold]

12 hours ago, Tony S said:

What you have just explained quite well explains quite well why I don't like to trade. Many people like to interject intangibles like "my book is more important/more key than yours". When in fact Fair Market Value is Fair Market value.   So if I want a book and I need to turn one or more books to get that book, I prefer to sell and go buy with cash. Because THERE ARE NO INTANGIBLES ABOUT CASH.  My $2500 in cash is worth $2500 cash. Someone else's $2500 cash isn't somehow "better" . And for the example being discussed, Hulk 181 is a ridiculously easy expensive book to sell.  Just as easy to sell as JIM 83. 

I remember being at show a couple of  years ago where a dealer traded a nice, higher grade early FF  for three NM copies of NM 98. Value wise the trade was pretty close to even. Some dealers and collectors thought him nuts. Not me. By the end of the show he had all three NM 98's sold . He probably was taking the FF back home with him. 

 

Sad but true.

[miraclemet]

I would say "opportunity to acquire" is a reasonable factor to also consider.

Granted jim83 and ih181 are broth in the market readily there is a difference...

17 JIM83 sales in last 12months (combining 2.5 and 3.0 sales)

Vs

33 IH181s that have sold in GPA reporting markets

So it will be twice as easy to replace a 9.0 Ih181 than a 2.5-3.0 JIM83

[VintageComics]

Too many people who want to buy expensive comics but don't know how to do a little research for common moving books.

We need a 'what's it worth forum'.

[kav]

The value of a book is built in to the final hammer price.  A JIM 83 2.5 is the same as a IH 9.0.  You could say a JIM 83 is desired, less copies etc-yes that is why it is worth as much as an IH 9.0.

Edited June 28, 2017 by kav

[telerites]

I put value on the peace of mind of a CGC graded book to be more accurately graded than not as well as knowing whether or not it is restored/qualified.  Plus I could pony up for grader's notes if they are not available from or provided by the seller.

[Tony S]

6 hours ago, kav said:

The value of a book is built in to the final hammer price.  A JIM 83 2.5 is the same as a IH 9.0.  You could say a JIM 83 is desired, less copies etc-yes that is why it is worth as much as an IH 9.0.

THIS sums it up nicely. 

[Quicksilver Signs]

On 6/27/2017 at 0:57 AM, Tony S said:

But what are those potential raw 9.0 181's selling for? And are they 9.0's? Or nice looking 7.5-8.0's? There is a reason why experienced collectors prefer keys to be professionally graded. 
 

Is this true? I would consider myself an experienced collector and I prefer finding raw books because they are much cheaper and more easily haggled (if that's a word) I'm confident in my grading being close to CGC. Where as a noobie collector can't grade properly  and has to rely on graded books to be confident in their buys. 

[Tony S]

16 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

Is this true? I would consider myself an experienced collector and I prefer finding raw books because they are much cheaper and more easily haggled (if that's a word) I'm confident in my grading being close to CGC. Where as a noobie collector can't grade properly  and has to rely on graded books to be confident in their buys. 

If the book is expensive, the restoration check is worth the money. I cannot reliably detect professional restoration and I truly suck at detecting trimming.  Nothing spells butthurt better than spending thousands of dollars on a book and CGC finding a tiny amount of professional color touch and the book coming back PLOD. 

[lizards2]

23 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Too many people who want to buy expensive comics but don't know how to do a little research for common moving books.

We need a 'what's it worth forum'.

Or maybe they just want someone else to do the work.