Negotiations that go nowhere 0

[fmaz]

By the way, is your sole plan to take these books and flip them? Not keep any for your personal collection?  Because if you're just flipping them... maybe an alternative is to offer to broker for him.  Tell him that you'll take the books and sell them for him, in exchange for 30% of the profit.

I just threw that percentage out there, seemed like a decent number for what you'd be doing off the top of my head.  
Clearly you'd be able to get a lot more for these books than he would, and you'd know how to move them in ways that he wouldn't... so he'd be getting 70% of top dollar for doing nothing.

And you'd get 30% profit and assume no risk on unsold inventory.

Just a thought.

[kav]

1 minute ago, fmaz said:

By the way, is your sole plan to take these books and flip them? Not keep any for your personal collection?  Because if you're just flipping them... maybe an alternative is to offer to broker for him.  Tell him that you'll take the books and sell them for him, in exchange for 30% of the profit.

I just threw that percentage out there, seemed like a decent number for what you'd be doing off the top of my head.  
Clearly you'd be able to get a lot more for these books than he would, and you'd know how to move them in ways that he wouldn't... so he'd be getting 70% of top dollar for doing nothing.

And you'd get 30% profit and assume no risk on unsold inventory.

Just a thought.

I have done this but you also have to factor in ebayers cheating you and pulling a swap or returning a German newspaper.  If that happens you've already given him his cut and things can get really nasty.

[fmaz]

Just now, kav said:

I have done this but you also have to factor in ebayers cheating you and pulling a swap or returning a German newspaper.  If that happens you've already given him his cut and things can get really nasty.

Yeah absolutely, great point. I think you'd have to be careful and set reasonable expectations.  Also the percentage is of profit not just sales... so eBay fees would be deducted... that sort of thing.  

My Spidey Sense says ths guy might have $2 goods but he's $10 worth of trouble.  I think I'd just steer clear.

[FlyingDonut]

20 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

wow - our definition of over the moon is different.  I'm usually dealing with guys hanging onto Star Wars 1 and X-Men 141 and would flip out if a sellers had books like X-Men 1 or ASM 129.  Sounds like he has a nice batch of keys so I'd take into account this and maybe offer him 35% less then FMV on his keys since 20% profit on a $2,000 books is still $400.  Still offer 50% on the lesser books but at least giving him more for the keys may get you closer to his number.  But if he wants full retail and even higher for his books wish him well and move on.  Nothing worse then spending all your effort and time and still not getting a sale.

There's a "yeah but" there though - while those are great books (and that's a lot better than I thought it was) - those books are everywhere in that kind of grade. 35% off retail is still not making a whole lot of skin for the buyer if you ever go to sell. That does give you a little wiggle room, but it still isn't really worth dickering on. Give him a number and move on.

[kav]

5 minutes ago, fmaz said:

Yeah absolutely, great point. I think you'd have to be careful and set reasonable expectations.  Also the percentage is of profit not just sales... so eBay fees would be deducted... that sort of thing.  

My Spidey Sense says ths guy might have $2 goods but he's $10 worth of trouble.  I think I'd just steer clear.

Yep thats my take.  One guy wanted me to sell his $400 shoes I explained I would have to hold the money for 90 days because buyer can refund thru paypal in that time and send me some german newspapers and I would be left holding the bag.  He lost interest thankfully.

Edited June 27, 2017 by kav

[FlyingDonut]

3 minutes ago, fmaz said:

Yeah absolutely, great point. I think you'd have to be careful and set reasonable expectations.  Also the percentage is of profit not just sales... so eBay fees would be deducted... that sort of thing.  

My Spidey Sense says ths guy might have $2 goods but he's $10 worth of trouble.  I think I'd just steer clear.

Just a note - if you're taking a 25% cut off sales, the buyer ends up with about 60% of retail after all fees are accounted for - don't forget the Paypal fees.

[1Cool]

9 minutes ago, fmaz said:

By the way, is your sole plan to take these books and flip them? Not keep any for your personal collection?  Because if you're just flipping them... maybe an alternative is to offer to broker for him.  Tell him that you'll take the books and sell them for him, in exchange for 30% of the profit.

I just threw that percentage out there, seemed like a decent number for what you'd be doing off the top of my head.  
Clearly you'd be able to get a lot more for these books than he would, and you'd know how to move them in ways that he wouldn't... so he'd be getting 70% of top dollar for doing nothing.

And you'd get 30% profit and assume no risk on unsold inventory.

Just a thought.

Tried this and it's a huge pain unless you are dealing with hot keys like the ASM 129 and FF 52.  Selling those take very little effort so I'd be happy to sell them for 30% (I get 17% after E-Bay and Paypal takes 13%) but no one ever wants to just have you sell only the keys.  The rest of the books take a lot of work and then you only get 17% when they eventually sell (if they do).  I've found it's better to just sell your own books unless you really, really need to consignment money.

[FlyingDonut]

Another option is to pay over time but take everything and start selling. You can make his number and have nothing out of your pocket.

[FlyingDonut]

Just now, 1Cool said:

Tried this and it's a huge pain unless you are dealing with hot keys like the ASM 129 and FF 52.  Selling those take very little effort so I'd be happy to sell them for 30% (I get 17% after E-Bay and Paypal takes 13%) but no one ever wants to just have you sell only the keys.  The rest of the books take a lot of work and then you only get 17% when they eventually sell (if they do).  I've found it's better to just sell your own books unless you really, really need to consignment money.

BTW I do this all the time. I'm happy to take 25% of the gross. The consigner gets net, but I get off the top.

That being said, if you don't want to get free money, more for me.

[1Cool]

5 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

BTW I do this all the time. I'm happy to take 25% of the gross. The consigner gets net, but I get off the top.

That being said, if you don't want to get free money, more for me.

25% is more then I've been able to negotiate since that's 40% of what is sold after factoring in fees but good that you can get that much.  Taxes were also a tricky point since the money was shown in my Paypal account and needed to send him a 1099 form for the money I sent him.

And I think you do mostly auctions so putting them all up for auction and taking 25% of what ever it sells for is definitely the way to go.  The guy I dealt with wouldn't go the auction route so it was a grind to wait for BINs to be hit.

Edited June 27, 2017 by 1Cool

[kav]

When I sell books to A1 Comics he looks through them, quotes me a price, I might say how about X and he shakes his head and says cant do it.  He doesnt screw around he gives me the top price he's willing to pay.  If I dont like it it doesnt phase him in the least.  Thats the best way to buy.  Start spending a lot of time explaining and stuff and seller reads this as man he really wants these books-I'm gonna fleece him as much as possible.

[Artboy99]

I have had several dealings like this one.

You can spend a lot of time on it if you really want the collection, but the thing is time is money!

You made your offer, I recommend moving on.

I have a guy local to me that I met at a local comic con, he and I went to university together. He looked at my booth/ display, and asked me to come see his collection and make him an offer. Over time he kept contacting me, asking me to look at the books again, and I kept making my offers. He would send me an email asking questions, and in attempt to gather his trust I would tell him honest answers and show him auction site information like Ebay and Heritage. Then his price kept going up as he was gathering more information, such as seeing an auction result for a CGC 9.8 Wolverine #10. He has 10 of them, and they are "like brand new". Except due to storage and the fact the books were never bagged and boarded they are VF to 9.0 at best.

Over time I also noticed he only contacted me when there was a local comic show coming up, and he would ask for a ticket/ vendor pass saying he would help me out. I give him a pass and then he would leave the show before closing time and he did nothing but hang out in the booth learning / gathering information.

Now it is 3 years later, I never did acquire the collection, and he has stopped contacting me now that he doesn't get any free passes to shows out of me.

I learned my lesson. Now I make my offer and move on. My time is valuable to me.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I have had several dealings like this one.

You can spend a lot of time on it if you really want the collection, but the thing is time is money!

You made your offer, I recommend moving on.

I have a guy local to me that I met at a local comic con, he and I went to university together. He looked at my booth/ display, and asked me to come see his collection and make him an offer. Over time he kept contacting me, asking me to look at the books again, and I kept making my offers. He would send me an email asking questions, and in attempt to gather his trust I would tell him honest answers and show him auction site information like Ebay and Heritage. Then his price kept going up as he was gathering more information, such as seeing an auction result for a CGC 9.8 Wolverine #10. He has 10 of them, and they are "like brand new". Except due to storage and the fact the books were never bagged and boarded they are VF to 9.0 at best.

Over time I also noticed he only contacted me when there was a local comic show coming up, and he would ask for a ticket/ vendor pass saying he would help me out. I give him a pass and then he would leave the show before closing time and he did nothing but hang out in the booth learning / gathering information.

Now it is 3 years later, I never did acquire the collection, and he has stopped contacting me now that he doesn't get any free passes to shows out of me.

I learned my lesson. Now I make my offer and move on. My time is valuable to me.

I learned the same thing about drawing in public.  Now when people approach me with a 'paying project' I say not interested.  'No matter how much I pay?'  "No matter how much you pay".  They never pay.  They just waste hours of your time talking and feeling like bigshots and you waste hours drawing.  In 40 years it has never gone anywhere.  I learned my lesson about time wasters of all kinds.

[Readcomix]

I think the correct answer has been provided numerous times here. I would only add keep his name and # in your phone only because in my experience a capitulation call does come, sometimes over a year later.  Take Artboy's advice; don't get strung along consulting for free for months. Offer should sound final and best you can do; just inform him to keep your # as the door remains open.

Many times they are time wasters and nothing happens; but more than a few times I've gotten the books at my number quite a ways down the road. The difference between these folks and the time wasters are these are the ones who eventually reason it out themselves and accept reality.

[october]

38 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

There's a "yeah but" there though - while those are great books (and that's a lot better than I thought it was) - those books are everywhere in that kind of grade. 35% off retail is still not making a whole lot of skin for the buyer if you ever go to sell. That does give you a little wiggle room, but it still isn't really worth dickering on. Give him a number and move on.

Really? I would buy those books endlessly at a 35% discount. They sell instantly at 10-15% off retail. I will take 20-25% for doing next to nothing. 

[Artboy99]

Even more annoying are the non committal types.

Another collection local to me, is a couple dozen long boxes and it does have some great books in it. We finally get a chance to look at the collection, we get to the guys house at 10:30 AM on Sunday and after viewing about 10 boxes he tells us we have to leave as he has to be at a breakfast at 11 AM. Head scratcher there. Anyways we make an offer, he says kind of low, we ask what he was expecting and he quotes us a figure so we raise our offer to in between the 2 numbers. No negotiation from the owner, he just declines. Over time we contact him again and we offer him the price he was asking. Even then he hummed and hawed, said he needed to ask his wife and we never heard from him again. Actually offered him his asking price and still didn't get the collection, the ultimate in a negotiation that went nowhere.

[kav]

4 minutes ago, october said:

Really? I would buy those books endlessly at a 35% discount. They sell instantly at 10-15% off retail. I will take 20-25% for doing next to nothing. 

With ebay/paypal's cut and 15% off retail your profit margin is like 7% which isnt worth my time.

[Artboy99]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

With ebay/paypal's cut and 15% off retail your profit margin is like 7% which isnt worth my time.

Especially if you are paying tax on it.

[1Cool]

3 minutes ago, kav said:

With ebay/paypal's cut and 15% off retail your profit margin is like 7% which isnt worth my time.

I may be wrong but I think October sells a lot directly so he avoids the 12% fees.  That is why he knocks 10-15% off retail (even on the keys).

[october]

17 minutes ago, kav said:

With ebay/paypal's cut and 15% off retail your profit margin is like 7% which isnt worth my time.

Who said anything about selling on eBay or with PayPal?

I routinely buy keys at less margin than that. So do dealers. If dealers had to buy every book at half retail their walls would be bare. You think guys like Dale and Bob are paying 50% off on keys like X-Men 1? 

Edited June 27, 2017 by october