ExNihilo Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I grew up primarily reading Marvel so I have a pretty good idea which books are key issues (ASM 300, 361, NM 87, 98, etc). But I'm less familiar with what DC books from these eras are considered keys. I see people talk about how hard it is to get BA12, and in my mind Batman 608 is another. But beyond that, I have no idea. So dear Collectors, what do you consider to be key DC issues of the Copper/Modern era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ExNihilo said: I grew up primarily reading Marvel so I have a pretty good idea which books are key issues (ASM 300, 361, NM 87, 98, etc). But I'm less familiar with what DC books from these eras are considered keys. I see people talk about how hard it is to get BA12, and in my mind Batman 608 is another. But beyond that, I have no idea. So dear Collectors, what do you consider to be key DC issues of the Copper/Modern era? probably best to use some google searches for this one. or the search functions within these forums. you'll find some good stuff, but I don't think there will be anything other than the BA12 that is on par with the bigger Marvel Keys, maybe 1st Deathstroke (New Teen Titans 2) if you count that as copper. 1st Nightwing TTA 44 Edited August 9, 2017 by revat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 6 hours ago, revat said: probably best to use some google searches for this one. or the search functions within these forums. you'll find some good stuff, but I don't think there will be anything other than the BA12 that is on par with the bigger Marvel Keys, maybe 1st Deathstroke (New Teen Titans 2) if you count that as copper. 1st Nightwing TTA 44 Yeah, didn't see a whole lot besides Vengeance of Bane. I guess I just figured with the release of Wonder Woman and Batman/Superman getting movies that certain books would have gotten a bump. But I guess their histories span so long that a lot of the good stuff is SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Sinescu Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 There's tons of stuff, but it depends on how "key" you're looking for. Remember, just because it's not worth $100 doesn't mean its not a "key". If you're just looking for expensive books, nothing is going to rival BA 12 price-wise. Partly DC has just traditionally been weaker in the eyes of many collectors/investors or just has fewer fans compared with Marvel, but DC Silver and Bronze have also been undervalued for years and have begun to make huge strides lately, so the Copper/Modern keys could see major growth some day as well. If you're looking for truly significant books from DC and not just big payday stuff, Swamp Thing 21 and 37, Crisis 7 and 8, Flash 323 and 324, Sandman 1 and 8, Preacher 1, Action 583/Superman 423, etc. are all solid books that stay in demand. For Batman alone I could make a list as long as your arm. Then there's the Death of Superman stuff which has a lot of interest despite having been considered a low point in 90's comics for so many years (because it brought in so many non-collector vultures). Beyond that, there have been a number of key events, 1st appearances and changes to important characters (Aquaman losing a hand, various Green Lanterns) that have been significant in the DCU continuity over the last few decades, but many of these don't stick out more than a few dollars above surrounding issues. Both the DC Animated Universe and the live-action TV shows have a very loyal following, so that would be worth exploring as many characters from the shows had their first appearances during this time period. The good news is DC has been pretty aggressive about reprinting material from the last few decades, so the stories stay fresh and continually accessible for fans, too, rather than die off. ExNihilo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian48 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Dark Knight Returns #1 (but you should get the whole 4 book set anyway) Batman 404 (ditto, get all 4 books 404-407) I guess the whole "Death in the Family" arc is considered key as well, but I never got into it that I'd want to chase buying it (unlike DKR which is a must have). Lucky Baru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 It's interesting to me that each "age" seems to see the "rise" of a new group of keys. Golden Age keys are dominated by DC superheroes Silver Age keys are dominated by Marvel superheroes Bronze Age keys aren't dominated by, but they are heavily impacted by magazine non-superheroes Copper Age keys are heavily impacted by independent publishers, Albedo, TMNT, Caliber, Bone, Cry for Dawn, Valiant, Image (some are Copper keys, but not expensive). Modern Age keys are heavily impacted by retailer incentive variants, and the highest values cycle back to DC and Marvel superheroes (Batman 608 RRP, Spider-man incentive variants). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 As far as "CGC worthy" the books that have been submitted most often to CGC from D.C. (including variants) for 1980-present are: Dark Knight III: The Master Race 1 (2016) 6,257 submissions Harley Quinn 1 (2016) 6,013 submissions Batman 1 (2011) 5,576 submissions Batman: The Killing Joke nn (1988) 4,852 submissions Batman Adventures 12 (1993) 3,483 submissions Batman 608 (2002) 3,450 submissions Batman 1 (2016) 3,346 submissions Superman 75 (1993) 3,266 submissions All Star Batman 1 (2016) 3,240 submissions New Teen Titans 2 (1980) 2,974 submissions Superman: The Man of Steel 18 (1992) 2,865 submissions Omega Men 3 (1983) 2,786 submissions Tales of the Teen Titans 44 (1984) 2,767 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 1 (1986) 2,700 submissions Superman Unchained 1 (2013) 2,612 submissions Justice League 1 (2011) 2,584 submissions All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder 1 (2005) 2,465 submissions Preacher 1 (1995) 2,154 submissions Batman 612 (2003) 2,146 submissions Watchmen 1 (1986) 2,122 submissions Superman 204 (2004) 2,033 submissions Batman 497 (1993) 1,967 submissions Batman: Vengeance of Bane Special 1 (1993) 1,925 submissions DC Comics Presents 26 (1980) 1,918 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 4 (1986) 1,868 submissions Suicide Squad 1 (2016) 1,836 submissions Sandman 1 (1989) 1,791 submissions Superman/Batman 1 (2003) 1,731 submissions Harley Quinn 1 (2014) 1,725 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 2 (1986) 1,677 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 3 (1986) 1,676 submissions Batman 404 (1987) 1,670 submissions Batman 0 (2012) 1,591 submissions Superman/Batman 8 (2004) 1,581 submissions Batman: Harley Quinn nn (1999) 1,420 submissions Supergirl 1 (2005) 1,385 submissions Crisis on Infinite Earths 7 (1985) 1,351 submissions Crisis on Infinite Earths 1 (1985) 1,315 submissions Saga of the Swamp Thing 37 (1985) 1,295 submissions Harley Quinn 1 (2000) 1,234 submissions Batman 40 (2015) 1,181 submissions Legends 3 (1987) 1,170 submissions Action Comics 1 (2011) 1,169 submissions Batman Adventures 12 (2016) 1,168 submissions New Teen Titans 1 (1980) 1,139 submissions Detective Comics 1 (2011) 1,138 submissions Batman Adventures: Mad Love nn (1994) 1,131 submissions Infinite Crisis 1 (2005) 1,113 submissions Harley Quinn 0 (2014) 1,104 submissions Identity Crisis 1 (2004) 1,093 submissions Batman 428 (1988) 1,079 submissions Batman 2 (2011) 1,072 submissions All-Star Superman 1 (2006) 1,070 submissions Batman/Superman 1 (2013) 1,004 submissions Batman 13 (2012) 998 submissions Crisis on Infinite Earths 8 (1985) 965 submissions All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder 10 (2008) 965 submissions Batman 619 (2003) 947 submissions Wonder Woman 1 (1987) 939 submissions Teen Titans 1 (2003) 939 submissions Justice League of America 1 (2006) 898 submissions Batman 357 (1983) 897 submissions Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 (2016) 884 submissions Batman 21 (2017) 883 submissions Y: The Last Man 1 (2002) 878 submissions DC Universe: Rebirth 1 (2016) 878 submissions Batman 655 (2006) 839 submissions Suicide Squad 1 (1987) 833 submissions Batman and Robin 1 (2009) 832 submissions Forever Evil 1 (2013) 822 submissions Sandman 8 (1989) 799 submissions Batman 21 (2013) 790 submissions Green Lantern: Rebirth 1 (2004) 775 submissions Justice League 12 (2012) 775 submissions Flash 1 (2011) 760 submissions Batman 429 (1989) 752 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 3 (2016) 739 submissions Adventures of Superman 500 (1993) 727 submissions Green Lantern 1 (2005) 722 submissions Batman 50 (2016) 708 submissions Suicide Squad 1 (2011) 706 submissions Watchmen 2 (1986) 695 submissions Green Lantern 1 (2011) 695 submissions Justice League 1 (2016) 688 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 2 (2016) 687 submissions Batman 405 (1987) 681 submissions Batman 406 (1987) 680 submissions Batman 426 (1988) 675 submissions Batman 23.1 (2013) 668 submissions Superman: The Man of Steel 17 (1992) 658 submissions Batman 3 (2012) 645 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 4 (2016) 629 submissions Hellblazer 1 (1988) 625 submissions Green Arrow 1 (2001) 622 submissions Wonder Woman 1 (2006) 620 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight 23.4 (2013) 611 submissions Action Comics 1 (1988) 606 submissions Booster Gold 1 (1986) 602 submissions DC Comics Presents 47 (1982) 600 submissions Detective Comics 27 (1984) 597 submissions Lucky Baru, Martin Sinescu and ADAMANTIUM 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The same list alphabetically (for easier note-taking): Action Comics 1 (1988) 606 submissions Action Comics 1 (2011) 1,169 submissions Adventures of Superman 500 (1993) 727 submissions All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder 1 (2005) 2,465 submissions All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder 10 (2008) 965 submissions All Star Batman 1 (2016) 3,240 submissions All-Star Superman 1 (2006) 1,070 submissions Batman 0 (2012) 1,591 submissions Batman 1 (2011) 5,576 submissions Batman 1 (2016) 3,346 submissions Batman 13 (2012) 998 submissions Batman 2 (2011) 1,072 submissions Batman 21 (2013) 790 submissions Batman 21 (2017) 883 submissions Batman 23.1 (2013) 668 submissions Batman 3 (2012) 645 submissions Batman 357 (1983) 897 submissions Batman 40 (2015) 1,181 submissions Batman 404 (1987) 1,670 submissions Batman 405 (1987) 681 submissions Batman 406 (1987) 680 submissions Batman 426 (1988) 675 submissions Batman 428 (1988) 1,079 submissions Batman 429 (1989) 752 submissions Batman 497 (1993) 1,967 submissions Batman 50 (2016) 708 submissions Batman 608 (2002) 3,450 submissions Batman 612 (2003) 2,146 submissions Batman 619 (2003) 947 submissions Batman 655 (2006) 839 submissions Batman Adventures 12 (1993) 3,483 submissions Batman Adventures 12 (2016) 1,168 submissions Batman Adventures: Mad Love nn (1994) 1,131 submissions Batman and Robin 1 (2009) 832 submissions Batman/Superman 1 (2013) 1,004 submissions Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 (2016) 884 submissions Batman: Harley Quinn nn (1999) 1,420 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight 23.4 (2013) 611 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 1 (1986) 2,700 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 2 (1986) 1,677 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 3 (1986) 1,676 submissions Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 4 (1986) 1,868 submissions Batman: The Killing Joke nn (1988) 4,852 submissions Batman: Vengeance of Bane Special 1 (1993) 1,925 submissions Booster Gold 1 (1986) 602 submissions Crisis on Infinite Earths 1 (1985) 1,315 submissions Crisis on Infinite Earths 7 (1985) 1,351 submissions Crisis on Infinite Earths 8 (1985) 965 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 1 (2016) 6,257 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 2 (2016) 687 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 3 (2016) 739 submissions Dark Knight III: The Master Race 4 (2016) 629 submissions DC Comics Presents 26 (1980) 1,918 submissions DC Comics Presents 47 (1982) 600 submissions DC Universe: Rebirth 1 (2016) 878 submissions Detective Comics 1 (2011) 1,138 submissions Detective Comics 27 (1984) 597 submissions Flash 1 (2011) 760 submissions Forever Evil 1 (2013) 822 submissions Green Arrow 1 (2001) 622 submissions Green Lantern 1 (2005) 722 submissions Green Lantern 1 (2011) 695 submissions Green Lantern: Rebirth 1 (2004) 775 submissions Harley Quinn 0 (2014) 1,104 submissions Harley Quinn 1 (2000) 1,234 submissions Harley Quinn 1 (2014) 1,725 submissions Harley Quinn 1 (2016) 6,013 submissions Hellblazer 1 (1988) 625 submissions Identity Crisis 1 (2004) 1,093 submissions Infinite Crisis 1 (2005) 1,113 submissions Justice League 1 (2011) 2,584 submissions Justice League 1 (2016) 688 submissions Justice League 12 (2012) 775 submissions Justice League of America 1 (2006) 898 submissions Legends 3 (1987) 1,170 submissions New Teen Titans 1 (1980) 1,139 submissions New Teen Titans 2 (1980) 2,974 submissions Omega Men 3 (1983) 2,786 submissions Preacher 1 (1995) 2,154 submissions Saga of the Swamp Thing 37 (1985) 1,295 submissions Sandman 1 (1989) 1,791 submissions Sandman 8 (1989) 799 submissions Suicide Squad 1 (1987) 833 submissions Suicide Squad 1 (2011) 706 submissions Suicide Squad 1 (2016) 1,836 submissions Supergirl 1 (2005) 1,385 submissions Superman 204 (2004) 2,033 submissions Superman 75 (1993) 3,266 submissions Superman Unchained 1 (2013) 2,612 submissions Superman/Batman 1 (2003) 1,731 submissions Superman/Batman 8 (2004) 1,581 submissions Superman: The Man of Steel 17 (1992) 658 submissions Superman: The Man of Steel 18 (1992) 2,865 submissions Tales of the Teen Titans 44 (1984) 2,767 submissions Teen Titans 1 (2003) 939 submissions Watchmen 1 (1986) 2,122 submissions Watchmen 2 (1986) 695 submissions Wonder Woman 1 (1987) 939 submissions Wonder Woman 1 (2006) 620 submissions Y: The Last Man 1 (2002) 878 submissions FutureFlash, ADAMANTIUM and jcjames 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcjames Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Welp, the above post just about covers it. nevermind. Edited August 9, 2017 by jcjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Wow. Thanks for that list @valiantman. At quick glance a lot of the top submissions seem to be because of the creators behind them and less about the story. Miller/Azzarello/Kubert on DKIII personally didn't strike me in terms of quality. (I honestly enjoyed the individual inserts better than the main story). All Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder by Miller/Lee is often derided for its quality, but the star power of the creators leads many to submit them (myself included...waiting on that puppy to get back to me). But other books make sense for their inclusion based on 1st appearances, key events, or quality of story. I'll have to parse through and maybe read up on some of the more notable items (like Watchmen...I know, I haven't read Watchmen...heresy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 It's interesting that the Harley key's are not necessarily first appearances but just #1 like issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian48 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Maybe I'm misunderstanding the original post, but I don't personally view this list as keys. These are just submission results driven by speculator interest for whatever window of time when there was interest in that particular book. Some hit, but most miss. Out of it, only a fraction would be what I would traditionally call a "key" (i.e. Batman Adventures 12, TT #2, etc. for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Sinescu Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Actually, I think the first arrangement grouped by the number of subs catches a good bit of what I would consider keys, you just have to sift through some of the more spec-driven entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Superman Bradman isn't on the list for obvious reasons (not enough exist), but it's probably on a lot of people's lists for key D.C. Copper/Modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 it should also be noted that the submissions # doesn't appear to capture variant breakouts, or at least doesn't appear to (feel free to correct me). Also sometimes there's a difference between a key and just a super rare expensive comic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'd be interested in a list of just post-2004 books. Ex. I collected Batman off the shelf from about # 390-# 625 or so (the post-Hush storyline by Azzarello). So i'm good on the Copper and 1990s keys. But for someone who has been out of the game the last 10 years or so, what's key after that? Clearly # 655's on the list (first Damien, right?) But what about -- is it # 635 (first Jason Todd as Red Hood)? Read recently that it's a $60-$75 book. Batman Annual 25? Was this the issue we discover Jason Todd's alive? Or was it the *alternate version* of Batman 429 where he lives? I forget. But is this still considered key? Are there other random post-2004 $25-$40 books that are worth knowing about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, revat said: it should also be noted that the submissions # doesn't appear to capture variant breakouts, or at least doesn't appear to (feel free to correct me). Also sometimes there's a difference between a key and just a super rare expensive comic. You're right because I can see the Harley 2016 number one where there were tons of variants for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said: I'd be interested in a list of just post-2004 books. Ex. I collected Batman off the shelf from about # 390-# 625 or so (the post-Hush storyline by Azzarello). So i'm good on the Copper and 1990s keys. But for someone who has been out of the game the last 10 years or so, what's key after that? Clearly # 655's on the list (first Damien, right?) But what about -- is it # 635 (first Jason Todd as Red Hood)? Read recently that it's a $60-$75 book. Batman Annual 25? Was this the issue we discover Jason Todd's alive? Or was it the *alternate version* of Batman 429 where he lives? I forget. But is this still considered key? Are there other random post-2004 $25-$40 books that are worth knowing about? Some thought that Suicide Squad 1 New 52 in 2011 and the "new" Suicide Squad 1 New 52 were collectible probably due to movie news way back when that would be considered 25 to $40 books. People might have jumped ship on that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, revat said: it should also be noted that the submissions # doesn't appear to capture variant breakouts, or at least doesn't appear to (feel free to correct me). Also sometimes there's a difference between a key and just a super rare expensive comic. All the variants for a comic are combined in the total submissions. If a particular variant is a key issue, but the other versions of the same comic aren't key... that's a weird definition of "key" when the contents don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: I'd be interested in a list of just post-2004 books. Ex. I collected Batman off the shelf from about # 390-# 625 or so (the post-Hush storyline by Azzarello). So i'm good on the Copper and 1990s keys. But for someone who has been out of the game the last 10 years or so, what's key after that? Clearly # 655's on the list (first Damien, right?) But what about -- is it # 635 (first Jason Todd as Red Hood)? Read recently that it's a $60-$75 book. Batman Annual 25? Was this the issue we discover Jason Todd's alive? Or was it the *alternate version* of Batman 429 where he lives? I forget. But is this still considered key? Are there other random post-2004 $25-$40 books that are worth knowing about? some of the Hughes Catwomans are worth a decent amount for non-variants. 1st Izombie in the HOM, Batman 1 in the New 52 is still in that range. Detective 850? These are just non-variants. Gotham City Sirens 1. Obviously there are some variants that will be worth a lot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
