How do you detect forgeries? 1 1

[alxjhnsn]

Terry Beatty has long fought ebay based forgers. Today, he started a thread on how to detect forgeries. I thought it would be an interesting discussion to hold here.

 

Here's what he wrote, 

Quote

Linda Davies asks regarding the fake PEANUTS art from eBay, "Curious Terry, how do you know they're fake? I don't doubt you...I want to know so people don't get scammed."

That's a good question, and since the answer is lengthy and deserving of its own post, here we go.

I can see that the drawings are phony because I've spent most of my life obsessing over comic art, studying it, collecting it, learning to create it myself. Like a handwriting expert who has learned to ID various signatures, I've learned to identify many cartoonists' work at a glance. Composition, character construction, linework, etc. all add up to a unique mix for each artist, and my eye can spot their work -- or a fake -- almost instantly. I'm uncomfortable claiming to be an expert at anything -- but in this case, I guess the shoe fits.

There are still instances in which I'm unsure -- but if something about a drawing feels "off," I'd still steer clear of it.

None of this helps people who have not spent a lifetime developing this skill -- except that I use this odd ability to spot the phonies and pass the word along.

For less comics-obsessed folks -- there are clues to be found in these auctions. If there is any language along the lines of "in the style of the artist," or "sold as is," then walk away. If the seller only has sketches by cartoonists (and fine artists), but no comic strip or comic book page originals, that's often a warning sign. Real comic art dealers will have a good mix of both. If the seller has Van Gogh and Andy Warhol and Picasso drawings listed for a couple hundred bucks each -- well, common sense ought to kick in right there.

Hesitant "dead weight" lines often give away the traced origins of many fakes. Real cartoonists draw with a confidant line.

The forgers tend to fake artists with simple styles they think they can easily copy -- Charles Schulz, Dr, Seuss, Tim Burton, Matt Groening, LeRoy Neiman, Bruce Timm, Walter Lantz, Bob Kane -- if their list of sale art looks anything like this list -- beware.

You can also do a google search for the seller. "Fosworld" turns up MANY discussions of his forged art sales. Likewise the notorious "Ducoso." Of course newer sellers won't be found this way -- but it's worth checking.

Some of the slicker fakes come from overseas -- and of course there are legit sellers there, too -- but Hungary seems a source of many fakes -- and there are way too many LeRoy Neiman pieces offered from Peru at the moment.

You can also Google search "original comic art" and start familairizing yourself with what comic strip and comic book art really looks like. Many of these fakers don't even try. One of the phony Peanuts strips I posted yesterday was four panels stacked in a square -- and while the strip was published in that format in some papers -- it was never DRAWN that way. Some fakers will sell individual comic panels -- and strips were rarely drawn like that either. (There are some cases of artists cutting up strips and giving away or selling separate panels -- Hal Foster did so with Prince Valiant -- but they would not have a big fat blank border around them as most of the fakes do).

I'm sure there are other clues -- but that's what comes to mind right now -- and I have to get back to drawing my own comic strip -- digitally, with no original art to list on eBay!

I added check for comments about how the art was purchased that distance the seller from responsibility, e.g., I bought it at an estate sale/art market/flea market in NYC. 

What do you have?

 

[kav]

I've spotted a lot of fakes merely by googling.  For instance I saw a Dr seuss grinch for sale so I google imaged dr seuss grinch-and it was the first google image they copied!   Once you have the original pic you can do a line by line comparison and it falls apart rapidly from there.  There are also the hesitation lines which you can train yourself to spot-when someone is tracing, they have to go slow, the lines show this as opposed to the freely drawn rapid strokes of the actual artist.

Edited August 25, 2017 by kav

[williamhlawson]

Thanks for posting this...some good information in the piece.  I am glad someone is fighting the forgery market, seems that goes on a lot here on these boards (thankfully and sadly). 

On a similar questioning line...I'm a board newbie, so sorry if not appropriate here...

Are there any laws about taking an artist's original work...and say making it into a print, matting it...and then selling them by the ton on ebay... without paying artists or the companies?  Not sure if the individual I see doing this is doling out payments to companies and artists or not...but they won't answer my question personally.  Just seems really funny / shady to me.  All for only $24.99 per...?

[alxjhnsn]

On 8/29/2017 at 4:22 PM, williamhlawson said:

Are there any laws about taking an artist's original work...and say making it into a print, matting it...and then selling them by the ton on ebay... without paying artists or the companies?  Not sure if the individual I see doing this is doling out payments to companies and artists or not...but they won't answer my question personally.  Just seems really funny / shady to me.  All for only $24.99 per...?

Yes, lots, but enforcement is sketchy.

Copyrights - These are held by the person that created the image unless assigned by that person to someone else. Commissioning an artist does not give the commissioner copyrights. They have to be transferred explicitly.

Trademarks/Servicemarks - These are symbols used by a company to establish their brand for a product or service. Superman's S-shield is a trademark. No one, but the trademark owner can use that trademark unless a license is granted by the owner.

Companies are fairly aggressive about trademark enforcement. Artists are less aggressive about copyrights (cost of lawyers being a factor).

Ebay is lousy about enforcement unless the copyright holder or trademark holder themselves raises the issue.

 

Does this help?

[Weird Paper]

On August 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, williamhlawson said:

Thanks for posting this...some good information in the piece.  I am glad someone is fighting the forgery market, seems that goes on a lot here on these boards (thankfully and sadly). 

On a similar questioning line...I'm a board newbie, so sorry if not appropriate here...

Are there any laws about taking an artist's original work...and say making it into a print, matting it...and then selling them by the ton on ebay... without paying artists or the companies?  Not sure if the individual I see doing this is doling out payments to companies and artists or not...but they won't answer my question personally.  Just seems really funny / shady to me.  All for only $24.99 per...?

For a real-life example: My wife and I produced a Ralph Steadman-illustrated edition of Fahrenheit 451 back in the early-mid 2000s. The book had 20+ full-color illustrations by Ralph. When I search his work on Ebay or Amazon, I can find numerous instances of people selling "prints" of these illustrations. None of them are authorized. I used to contact both the publishers and Ralph's representatives when I would find these, but they never stopped showing up and I quit flagging them. Ebay, I could see this happening on, but Amazon? Yep. I guarantee that the people producing these don't have the original scans (scans from slides, old-school), so they're scanning printed pieces out of books.

[malvin]

3 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

Yes, lots, but enforcement is sketchy.

Copyrights - These are held by the person that created the image unless assigned by that person to someone else. Commissioning an artist does not give the commissioner copyrights. They have to be transferred explicitly.

Trademarks/Servicemarks - These are symbols used by a company to establish their brand for a product or service. Superman's S-shield is a trademark. No one, but the trademark owner can use that trademark unless a license is granted by the owner.

Companies are fairly aggressive about trademark enforcement. Artists are less aggressive about copyrights (cost of lawyers being a factor).

Ebay is lousy about enforcement unless the copyright holder or trademark holder themselves raises the issue.

 

Does this help?

You are posting! Glad to see that you are still able to post even though you are from Houston Alex.

Malvin

[alxjhnsn]

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