CKinTO Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 My experience has been that most dealers at cons / shows who also sell on EBay (at least the ones that I buy from) are willing to negotiate a lower price in person than what they have listed for on EBay, to basically net the dealer the same amount than if they had sold on Ebay (ie. deduct the Ebay fees). Dealer gets around the same net amount (with slight benefit of getting it in cash straight up without any risk of ebay buyer fraud, chargeback, arguments over shipping damages, etc.), and customer gets a lower price (as it cuts out the Ebay "middle-man"). That's generally my policy when doing in-person transactions. The benefit to the buyer to incentivize buying then and there should be they get a slightly lower price than if bought on Ebay (as well as not having to pay for shipping) - seller gets the same amount they would have if it was purchased over Ebay (at the higher price). Now, as the price of the book goes higher (and rarity goes up), or price of the con goes higher, I do see some rationale for there being some sharing of the savings over Ebay price being "split" between buyer and seller, but generally, I think the bulk of the benefit should go to the buyer. Especially under a normal seller / buyer power dynamic (ie. seller is trying to sell books, buyer deciding whether or not he wants to buy). Others may disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazingbob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Now while that is great that you feel the seller should sell the book less the ebay fees do you take into account the convention costs of him setting up? The dealer does not "net more" when selling at a convention. What am I saving by selling the book less my ebay fees? If you happen to see the book at a show the dealer has costs to set up and sell there also. The benefit to the buyer is that the book is right in front of them. No shipping fees. Instant gratification of having the book in hand. Not sure why you think we are there for FREE and which is why I have never bought the "You are saving Ebay fees argument". Edited September 18, 2017 by blazingbob Artboy99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Seems like all of this is overthinking things a bit. If you don't like a dealer's price, make an offer, maybe something can be worked out. Pros and cons of Paypal, shipping etc is really the dealer's business, not the buyers. Know when haggling is appropriate. Hot books typically move as priced, buying a stack might get you a little break, etc. Remember the dealers you deal with, and repeat with the ones that worked out well for you. It's nice to feel like you won, but a fair price is good for both parties. Edited September 18, 2017 by Mackenzie999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, blazingbob said: Now while that is great that you feel the seller should sell the book less the ebay fees do you take into account the convention costs of him setting up? The dealer does not "net more" when selling at a convention. What am I saving by selling the book less my ebay fees? If you happen to see the book at a show the dealer has costs to set up and sell there also. The benefit to the buyer is that the book is right in front of them. No shipping fees. Instant gratification of having the book in hand. Not sure why you think we are there for FREE and which is why I have never bought the "You are saving Ebay fees argument". Yep, fair point. And that's partly why I said as the "price of the con goes up", I'm more wiling to "share the savings" with the seller. And you're right, there's definitely benefit to the buyer, but also benefit to the seller too (cash in hand, don't have to go through hassle of packing / shipping, no risk of buyer / ebay return scams, etc.). I guess it's really a spectrum - for example, if I'm buying a book through Craigslist (or frankly, over these boards), I think the "EBay fee savings" should generally go to the buyer as the incentive to buy. As the "listing costs" increase (whether that's Ebay, Clink, Heritage, or at a Convention), I agree that theoretically, the "fair" thing is that the "savings" is split between buyer and seller. Don't forget there are "costs" to buyers going to conventions as well (entrance fees, maybe airfare, accommodations etc.) - just like I wouldn't expect a seller to care what my "costs" were to get to the con (and give me a break on the price accordingly), in some ways (though not exactly the same), the seller shouldn't expect the buyer to care about those costs (and pay more accordingly). I don't think it's exactly the same thing, but making the point more illustratively. 1 hour ago, Mackenzie999 said: Seems like all of this is overthinking things a bit. If you don't like a dealer's price, make an offer, maybe something can be worked out. Pros and cons of Paypal, shipping etc is really the dealer's business, not the buyers. Know when haggling is appropriate. Hot books typically move as priced, buying a stack might get you a little break, etc. Remember the dealers you deal with, and repeat with the ones that worked out well for you. It's nice to feel like you won, but a fair price is good for both parties. Yes, agree on the overthinking, this was really more just an exercise in the theoretical. General negotiation, how in-demand the book is (and availability), all will likely make a much bigger impact. And I definitely agree that a deal needs to make sense for both sellers and buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 9/15/2017 at 1:45 AM, Westy Steve said: A few years ago my daughter found a pen light that emits black light. It's a kid's toy used to read invisible ink made out of lemon juice. I find it indispensable and had her buy a couple more at her school book fair. You need a light, or lights, that will reflect light different than the normal white light spectrum. A paint or marker designed to fool the eye in normal white light might not blend well under another color light and can therefore be easily spotted. Of course you also need to try to look through the covers (sort of like using a light box) to see differences in paper thickness. And then there is the bleed through. The hardest thing to see, IMHO, are tear seals, and that's why a loupe is important. will the lights that detect cat urine do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 hours ago, blazingbob said: Now while that is great that you feel the seller should sell the book less the ebay fees do you take into account the convention costs of him setting up? The dealer does not "net more" when selling at a convention. What am I saving by selling the book less my ebay fees? If you happen to see the book at a show the dealer has costs to set up and sell there also. The benefit to the buyer is that the book is right in front of them. No shipping fees. Instant gratification of having the book in hand. Not sure why you think we are there for FREE and which is why I have never bought the "You are saving Ebay fees argument". what, the folks from NYCC don't give you a free table because you're a comic celebrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, blazingbob said: Now while that is great that you feel the seller should sell the book less the ebay fees do you take into account the convention costs of him setting up? The dealer does not "net more" when selling at a convention. What am I saving by selling the book less my ebay fees? If you happen to see the book at a show the dealer has costs to set up and sell there also. The benefit to the buyer is that the book is right in front of them. No shipping fees. Instant gratification of having the book in hand. Not sure why you think we are there for FREE and which is why I have never bought the "You are saving Ebay fees argument". 4 hours ago, CKinTO said: My experience has been that most dealers at cons / shows who also sell on EBay (at least the ones that I buy from) are willing to negotiate a lower price in person than what they have listed for on EBay, to basically net the dealer the same amount than if they had sold on Ebay (ie. deduct the Ebay fees). Dealer gets around the same net amount (with slight benefit of getting it in cash straight up without any risk of ebay buyer fraud, chargeback, arguments over shipping damages, etc.), and customer gets a lower price (as it cuts out the Ebay "middle-man"). That's generally my policy when doing in-person transactions. The benefit to the buyer to incentivize buying then and there should be they get a slightly lower price than if bought on Ebay (as well as not having to pay for shipping) - seller gets the same amount they would have if it was purchased over Ebay (at the higher price). Now, as the price of the book goes higher (and rarity goes up), or price of the con goes higher, I do see some rationale for there being some sharing of the savings over Ebay price being "split" between buyer and seller, but generally, I think the bulk of the benefit should go to the buyer. Especially under a normal seller / buyer power dynamic (ie. seller is trying to sell books, buyer deciding whether or not he wants to buy). Others may disagree... I think it's more likely that their ebay prices are often negotiable to start with. And more negotiability of you have a big stack of cash. Edited September 18, 2017 by the blob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Come up to me at a swap meet with a $100 and that's a lot of cash. Approach some dealers at NYC with a thousand dollars and it isn't. It's all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, shadroch said: Come up to me at a swap meet with a $100 and that's a lot of cash. Approach some dealers at NYC with a thousand dollars and it isn't. It's all relative. Well, the guy is talking about buying keys...the sort of books that may usually be slabbed...so I assume his stack of cash would be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazingbob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Yup they all ask for the best price in cash. Price is agreed on and out comes the credit card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, blazingbob said: Yup they all ask for the best price in cash. Price is agreed on and out comes the credit card. not my favorite tactic by the buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I am also wondering why buyers expect discounts off of key books that are fairly priced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, Artboy99 said: I am also wondering why buyers expect discounts off of key books that are fairly priced? When dealers are buying from other dealers from their fairly priced key stock do they expect a discount ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zosocane Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 One thing I've learned over the years about buying raw at shows is that the lighting oftentimes is not great. Unless you're buying from a trusted dealer who grades strictly (e.g., Bob) and you don't have to second-guess the grade, you really need to look at the raw book carefully under good lighting to make sure you are buying what the dealer says they are selling. Pay attention to those bottom edges in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazingbob Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Of course, its always for my personal collection comicquant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, blazingbob said: Yup they all ask for the best price in cash. Price is agreed on and out comes the credit card. 1 hour ago, Artboy99 said: not my favorite tactic by the buyers. Unreal, people do that? How can they do that with a straight-face? What do they say when you mention that it was clear this was cash-price? Under slightly diffent circumstances, I've heard dealers say if you pay credit card, then they have to charge sales-tax? That could work here too? I only ever bring cash to shows / conventions, and make it clear as part of the negotiating / deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy Steve Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 hours ago, the blob said: will the lights that detect cat urine do the same? Depends on the type of cats they are designed for. Are these midwestern cats? mysterio and lizards2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said: When dealers are buying from other dealers from their fairly priced key stock do they expect a discount ? The dealers at my local shows all ask for it. Then the book gets repriced 10% above what I had the book at and it goes on their wall. Even worse: customer in other dealers booth asking for a book he doesn't have. Comes to my booth, "gimme a deal gimme a deal." Buys the book from me, then goes back to his booth to sell it to the waiting customer. Some people do not play well with others. I stopped giving deals to other dealers. Edited September 19, 2017 by Artboy99 STORMSHADOW_80 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 hours ago, zosocane said: One thing I've learned over the years about buying raw at shows is that the lighting oftentimes is not great. Unless you're buying from a trusted dealer who grades strictly (e.g., Bob) and you don't have to second-guess the grade, you really need to look at the raw book carefully under good lighting to make sure you are buying what the dealer says they are selling. Pay attention to those bottom edges in particular. If the book has some value ( the value threshold is a variable likely different from one buyer to the next ... see below ) you should take the book out and look at it. Back cover, look at the interior, count pages. But please, if the book is a dollar do you really need to take it out of the bag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, blazingbob said: Yup they all ask for the best price in cash. Price is agreed on and out comes the credit card. That's a generalization! 3 minutes ago, Artboy99 said: If the book has some value ( the value threshold is a variable likely different from one buyer to the next ... see below ) you should take the book out and look at it. Back cover, look at the interior, count pages. But please, if the book is a dollar do you really need to take it out of the bag? I don't do it on dollar books so much, but yes, on $2 books. I don't want to pay that much for a water stained back cover. Edited September 19, 2017 by the blob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...