Has anyone ever...

[RickHigh]

This has probably been brought up before, but has anyone here ever purchased a PGX graded book and submitted it to CGC? If so, did you take it out of the PGX holder and submit it "raw" or just resubmit it in the holder? Did it get the same grade? Just curious about the difference in grading standards. I was watching a PGX 9.0 book on ebay and was wondering if I got it, would it really be a true 9.0 by CGC standards.

[kiltman]

From what i have heard PGX grade extremely harshly.

[FFB]

This has probably been brought up before, but has anyone here ever purchased a PGX graded book and submitted it to CGC? If so, did you take it out of the PGX holder and submit it "raw" or just resubmit it in the holder? Did it get the same grade? Just curious about the difference in grading standards. I was watching a PGX 9.0 book on ebay and was wondering if I got it, would it really be a true 9.0 by CGC standards.

 

I have.

 

CGG 9.2 --> CGC 9.0 (I agreed with CGG)

CGG 9.2 --> CGC 9.4 (I agreed with CGG)

CGG 9.4 --> CGC 9.4 (I agreed with both)

 

All were broken out before resubmitting. All were silver age books.

 

MW cross-submitted an Amazing Spider-Man #122:

CGG 9.4 --> CGC 9.6. (From the scans, the book looked a bit overgraded by both due to production flaws that OS wouldn't allow in 9.4 or 9.6)

 

I also own another PGA 9.2 that I think would grade somewhere between 8.5 and 9.2 by CGC depending on how they deducted for some light distribution ink on the spine apex. From what I can see inside the slab, I'd probably call the book a 9.0.

 

In my experience, PGX is pretty accurate per Overstreet standards in the 8.5 to 9.8 territory. Below 8.5 I have seen some overgrading by PGX.

[FFB]

From what i have heard PGX grade extremely harshly.

 

I have heard this from a lot of people, but based on the CGG/PGA/PGX books I've seen in hand, I don't think it's true. It is definitely not true below 8.5, where I think PGX tends to overgrade.

[uclapeterg]

From what i have heard PGX grade extremely harshly.

 

I have heard this from a lot of people, but based on the CGG/PGA/PGX books I've seen in hand, I don't think it's true. It is definitely not true below 8.5, where I think PGX tends to overgrade.

 

Based on the four or so PGA books that I have owned, one was grossly overgraded and the other three slightly undergraded.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Spooky! I'm actually sitting here just about the break into a NM- PGX slab and take a closer look, and then I read this...

 

Anyway, my own opinions on what I've seen so far is that up to and including VF+ (8.5), PGX are somewhat loose. I've not seen one 8.5 from them that I could grade above 8.0...and some have been worse than that.

 

However, this 9.2 I'm currently looking at would go 9.4 at CGC on an average day and looks a lot better than a bunch pf CGC 9.4s I've got sitting here.

[RickHigh]

I've never really been one to go after slabbed books until lately (thanks, Scott...email has been sent), but it has become apparent that this is the only way to go. Some of us just take longer to learn this lesson. Anyway, looks like 8.5 to 9.2 silver age books are the only grades that I can afford. I own a few already, and they don't seem too bad, so I'm thinking these are the way to go. I'm looking at a couple of 9.0 books and they seem ok to me. What do you guys think?

[BassGMan]

I used to use CGG/PGA quite frequently for their cheaper rates and faster turnaround time but I no longer do. I had submitted about 200 books to them total. Mostly mid-grade Silver and high end Bronze and Moderns. The only time I ever personally compared the two with any book was after I received a PGA X-Men #162 graded at 9.2 and I was shocked, but getting used to it. I busted that book out and sent it to CGC and received the deserved 9.6. Another forumite bought a Bronze PGA 9.0 ASM from me and then turned around and had it CGCed, he received a 9.4. I will agree that a few Silver books in the 6.0 to 8.5 range may have been a bit looser than CGC, but I wholeheartedly feel as if PGA/X is WAAAY to harsh (at least up to six months ago when I stopped using them) on the high grade Moderns. There were many times that I sent in what I believed to all be 9.6 or 9.8 books to PGA only to receive some marked down to 9.0. Sure, I've been surprised by a few lower grades that expected at CGC, but not nearly as frequently. As a matter of fact, I busted a few PGA books out of the slab to sell raw, I was in such disagreement. I've never done that with a CGC graded book.

 

Now, Daniel is aware of this. I wrote him about my displeasure of harsh high grade Modern grading several times, and mentioned how because of this I was sending them less books. When I met him at a con in Seattle (nice guy) he told me that they were making a few adjustments in their high end grading scale whenever they could. He may have just been pitching to me, or maybe they really did, I don't know as I have not sent them anything in six months.

 

I will say though that they do provide a quality service and I have no problem with their ability to grade or their holders. But because of their graded books commanding a much less premium than CGC graded books (in my experiences on Ebay) as well as generally grading my higher end books lower than I believe CGC would have, I had to end my business with this company and I'm now a CGC man 100%, long turnaround time and all.

[themegoguy]

Anyone have any insight as to how PGX grades golden age and restored golden age books? overgrade . . . undergrade . . . . spot on? thnx

[OldGuy]

I sent a CGC graded 9.2 modern to CGG in the inner holder without the label. CGG graded it 8.5.

[Stronguy]

I did a few back in November...

PGA 8.5 -- CGC 9.0, 1968 Marvel

PGA 9.0 -- CGC 9.2, 1971 DC

PGA 9.4 -- CGC 9.2, 1971 Marvel squarebound, may have been damaged in shipping to CGC

PGA 9.4 -- CGC 9.4, 1970 Marvel

[nik]

Some eg:

 

 

Avengers 24 CGG 8.5 - CGC 9.4

ASM 103 CGG 9.0 - CGC 9.4

FF 107 CGG 9.2 - CGC 9.2

FF 108 CGG 9.2 - CGC 9.6

FF 114 CGG 9.2 - CGC 9.6

JIM 105 CGG 9.0 - CGC 9.0

SS 16 CGG 9.2 - CGC 9.6 PLOD

[nik]

Another forumite bought a Bronze PGA 9.0 ASM from me and then turned around and had it CGCed, he received a 9.4.

[comicworm]

They suck at resto detection and their holder leaves a lot to be desired...

 

I actually no a person who sends them restored comics and they keep coming back in WORLD grade unrestored....

 

I would never pay big money for any of their books especially if you believe that some of their grader's actually sell books on Comic Link, eBay and other sites...

 

Personally the way I see it right now and in the near future CGC is the standard

 

don''t know why anyone with half a brain or a silver age key would trust PGX...

 

I had a lot of bad experiences with them i.e. wrong labels on wrong books, etc.

[burntboy]

I've never really been one to go after slabbed books until lately (thanks, Scott...email has been sent), but it has become apparent that this is the only way to go. Some of us just take longer to learn this lesson. Anyway, looks like 8.5 to 9.2 silver age books are the only grades that I can afford. I own a few already, and they don't seem too bad, so I'm thinking these are the way to go. I'm looking at a couple of 9.0 books and they seem ok to me. What do you guys think?

 

i've always been a big personal proponent of 9.0 books as just as nice as anyone should need them. but it's clear that there are many who feel that only the best of the best will do.

 

lot's of my recently graded books came back 8.0 and 8.5 and they look pretty frickin' nice to me.

 

buy what you like and looks good to you...............

[FFB]

I've never really been one to go after slabbed books until lately (thanks, Scott...email has been sent), but it has become apparent that this is the only way to go. Some of us just take longer to learn this lesson. Anyway, looks like 8.5 to 9.2 silver age books are the only grades that I can afford. I own a few already, and they don't seem too bad, so I'm thinking these are the way to go. I'm looking at a couple of 9.0 books and they seem ok to me. What do you guys think?

 

I had the ultra-high-grade bug for a while, but after talking to Dan Drummond about it last year and then spending some time taking a hard look at the differences in structure and price between the 9.0/9.2 level and the 9.4/9.6 level, gravitating to the 8.5-9.2 level became a no-brainer as far as my collecting goals are concerned. 8.5-9.2 can be harder to resell for a big profit (less speculator frenzy in that range), but they are also cheaper to buy and nice books still sell well in that grade range.

 

When you're buying 8.5-9.2, you can get some real bargains if you find really bright, fresh copies that have just a tad too much structural wear to stay in the 9.4/9.6 range. At arm's length, they look almost as good (and occasionally, even better, if the colors are bright and the paper is white) than a 9.4 with off-white pages or a light dust shadow -- and your wallet doesn't empty out as quickly.

[FFB]

But because of their graded books commanding a much less premium than CGC graded books (in my experiences on Ebay) as well as generally grading my higher end books lower than I believe CGC would have, I had to end my business with this company and I'm now a CGC man 100%, long turnaround time and all.

 

This actually isn't necessarily true as a general matter. There is a thread on STL somewhere where people compared recent auction results for PGX and CGC books. The PGX books actually sold within the same range as CGC in many cases (not so much for brand new moderns, but more for bronze and silver age books), and in some cases, for more than CGC books did in the same grade.

 

As for the undergrading, you clearly have more experience in the matter than I do. In my limited experience thus far, I haven't seen it.

[RickHigh]

I've seen some nice 8.5 books and some even lower that look pretty nice. I'm watching a few now on ebay, but have to be careful because I think you can spend some crazy money on ebay even for those "lower" grade books.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

I actually no a person who sends them restored comics and they keep coming back in WORLD grade unrestored....

 

How about letting everybody know who this person is since there are people on these boards who buy PGX books.

[BassGMan]

But because of their graded books commanding a much less premium than CGC graded books (in my experiences on Ebay) as well as generally grading my higher end books lower than I believe CGC would have, I had to end my business with this company and I'm now a CGC man 100%, long turnaround time and all.

 

This actually isn't necessarily true as a general matter. There is a thread on STL somewhere where people compared recent auction results for PGX and CGC books. The PGX books actually sold within the same range as CGC in many cases (not so much for brand new moderns, but more for bronze and silver age books), and in some cases, for more than CGC books did in the same grade.

 

As for the undergrading, you clearly have more experience in the matter than I do. In my limited experience thus far, I haven't seen it.

 

I can imagine that with Silver and harder to find Bronze books that there may not be as much of a spread with CGC and PGX prices realized. However, most of the books I sent in were fairly common issues like ASM#102-137, 300 and various Uncanny X-Men books. With these books that pop up all the time, I think most buyers would just rather wait for the next CGC graded copy to come around. Heck, if not for my two complaints (harsh high end grading and lack of respect from the market) then I would be happy to still be using PGX as I have no problem with them personally. But as a little guy Ebay seller I gotta go with the vendor whose product will help me make the most money. That is certainly CGC.