Unprofessional Commission Conduct 0

[vodou]

14 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I'm not a fanboy.

Hmm. As your rep of being "Phantom Stranger guy" spreads further and wider...you may want to revisit how others could perceive you

14 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I guess the more important question to me is whether you think my suggested steps on getting a good commission make sense to you? I'm still waiting for the first response on that.

That list of steps I'm leaving to others to evaluate, not the handicapper you want as my bias is too far to the all commissions are ridiculously overpriced (as to cost:benefit) and such lopsided against you gamble (the roll of which I've lost 100% of the time) position. I know this is not consensus, so surely you'll get some valuable feedback.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Hmm. As your rep of being "Phantom Stranger guy" spreads further and wider...you may want to revisit how others could perceive you

By setting a particular target for collecting, I get to compare different styles of the same basic subject. I also liked the character when I was young, so why not? 

And after all, for many of us, isn't OA collecting just a way to revisit our younger selves' enjoyment of comics when the joy of reading variations of older stories has fizzed out? Not everything, mind you, but too much. 

An unfocused collection just doesn't make sense to me.  It doesn't matter what the focus is (artist, characters, scenes with graveyards, whatever), but that hones in on the quality and variety of different artistic efforts. 

 

 

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

Maybe my commission idea of 'The Incredible Hulk lays The Incredibly Frail Aunt May' will not be met with the kind of enthusiasm and acclaim I was expecting?

Only if she's on top--and has his arms pinned down.

[Bird]

3 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

By setting a particular target for collecting, I get to compare different styles of the same basic subject.

This was my rationale for getting (mostly) Dr. Strange sketches. It was fun for 20 years but I ultimately wish that I had spent most of that money on published pages.

[mister_not_so_nice]

 

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

Maybe my commission idea of 'The Incredible Hulk lays The Incredibly Frail Aunt May' will not be met with the kind of enthusiasm and acclaim I was expecting?

2 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Only if she's on top--and has his arms pinned down.

O.K., I like where this is going. Keep the ideas flowing . . . 

 

[Rick2you2]

15 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

I have been asked, I wont do them.

I've never wanted a sex scene; and I'm moving away from simple figures. Instead, I'm beginning to see a commission as the opportunity to have a 1 panel story--a slice of life, so to speak. 

[Rick2you2]

3 minutes ago, Bird said:

This was my rationale for getting (mostly) Dr. Strange sketches. It was fun for 20 years but I ultimately wish that I had spent most of that money on published pages.

I do buy them when I find them and if they are good; but there are a lot less Phantom Stranger pages than Dr. Strange pages, and the character isn't particularly active when he is shown. 

As for the money, I keep this hobby on a low financial burn. I don't think this stuff has a long term investment horizon (say 20 years), at least not for the more common things.  

[Rick2you2]

8 minutes ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

 

O.K., I like where this is going. Keep the ideas flowing . . . 

 

Remember the artist Will Elder and have you seen what he did when Mad was a comic?

Have Wonder Woman about to put a banana in her mouth, and then have all the male Justice League members watching with their tongues hanging out--in Will Elder style. 

 

[The Voord]

1 hour ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

 

O.K., I like where this is going. Keep the ideas flowing . . . 

 

I was also thinking about 'Doctor Octopus lays Aunt May' . . . with lots of inventive uses for the extra arms.  Move over Phantom Stranger guy, 'Aunt May gets laid' is the way to go for fan-boy commissions!

At one time I was also toying with the idea of 'Giant-Man has his wicked way with the Wonderful Wasp', but figured that just might be TOO weird, so best not to mention that one . . .

 

[Rick2you2]

7 minutes ago, The Voord said:

I was also thinking about 'Doctor Octopus lays Aunt May' . . . with lots of inventive uses for the extra arms. 

Well, if we're headed in that direction, Clayface has got to be the biggest stud on the planet.

As to Doc Ock, not every woman is into mechanical sex toys. Aunt May seems a little conservative, but hey, you never know (Marissa Tomei, on the other hand...).

[Michael Browning]

3 hours ago, Bird said:

This was my rationale for getting (mostly) Dr. Strange sketches. It was fun for 20 years but I ultimately wish that I had spent most of that money on published pages.

This. It's what I saw when I looked at the portfolios of commissions of Jonah Hex that I had at one time. I looked at how much I'd spent in time and money getting all these commissions of the same character and, wow, it added up to several thousands of dollars. In the end, all of those I either lost money on or barely broke even when I eventually traded them away.

I don't currently have a focus and it's made collecting so much more fun. Before, I felt bound by my collecting focus and had to choose between spending my cash on another Jonah Hex commission or a published page that I wanted and I nearly always chose the Jonah Hex commission, because I just HAD to have that next mean mug of the guy.

A dealer told me once that if I'd saved all that commission cash up and put it on a big cover, I could have had something pretty cool. That caused me to rethink my collecting focus and I broke free of it and hope to never return to it. Now, one piece each of my favorite characters is good enough for me and my collection.

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, Michael Browning said:

 

A dealer told me once that if I'd saved all that commission cash up and put it on a big cover, I could have had something pretty cool. That caused me to rethink my collecting focus and I broke free of it and hope to never return to it. Now, one piece each of my favorite characters is good enough for me and my collection.

...that's assuming the Jonah Hex pieces you commissioned weren't "pretty cool" in their own right. 

And, of course, an art dealer will have that perspective...it's self-sustaining for his business model.

I don't know anyone that goes into commissioned artwork thinking they are going to make a mint on them, or even thinking about resale value. If those were the things they were focused upon they would have passed commissions by without a second thought. 

I continue to collect published work and commission artists. I still collect what I love in both regards. There's always an eye on how much I am spending and I never let the price exceed the enjoyment.

But, if the hobby were simply about margins, and profits, and not about enjoying the work and the process and the creativity I'd throw my money into something less interesting with higher upside. 

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Michael Browning said:

This. It's what I saw when I looked at the portfolios of commissions of Jonah Hex that I had at one time. I looked at how much I'd spent in time and money getting all these commissions of the same character and, wow, it added up to several thousands of dollars. In the end, all of those I either lost money on or barely broke even when I eventually traded them away.

I don't currently have a focus and it's made collecting so much more fun. Before, I felt bound by my collecting focus and had to choose between spending my cash on another Jonah Hex commission or a published page that I wanted and I nearly always chose the Jonah Hex commission, because I just HAD to have that next mean mug of the guy.

A dealer told me once that if I'd saved all that commission cash up and put it on a big cover, I could have had something pretty cool. That caused me to rethink my collecting focus and I broke free of it and hope to never return to it. Now, one piece each of my favorite characters is good enough for me and my collection.

I think you are being too hard on yourself. When you were getting those Jonah Hex commissions, weren't you enjoying yourself? If you were, and you could afford it, then have some fun. When you were buying those commissions, would a big cover have brought you that much enjoyment? If not, the heck with it. You can't take it with you. And once it becomes work--"I gotta have that next commission"--then it's more like an addiction. By all means, put away the old toys and pick up something new.

While I collect to one character, I will sometimes stray. I bought an old Grandinetti wash of the Spectre because I thought it captured a sentiment I hadn't seen before. The Spectre seemed to be sitting and contemplating all the deaths he had caused over the years. The image, which no one else seems to like, was something I posted on the thread involving bargain basement art finds (or whatever its called). I also bought a page of art this past year which was published by the ACG Comics Group called Adventures Into the Unknown and involving a hero called Nemesis. The art isn't too good (Chic Stone), but the dialog is an absolute scream and the plot line is 1960's nutty. 

I guess my bottom line is you should do whatever "floats your boat." Just have some fun with it.  

[alxjhnsn]

Regarding commissions retaining value or going up, I'll say what I always say, "If you want to make a small fortune, start with a large one and buy commissions."

That said, the CAF reports that only 16% of my pieces are published (covers, splashes, or interior pages). I've told my family that they can hope for 40% of what I paid at most on them.

Edited January 1, 2018 by alxjhnsn

[Bat34]

Reading all of these stories, I feel lucky.  I did my first ever commission piece last year at ECCC, as I got the chance to meet my favorite artist of all time.  He did exactly what I wanted within 24 hours and couldn't have been more gracious.

 

[aokartman]

Message to Rick2you2,

Those Nemesis stories were great, seek them out.  David

[Rick2you2]

10 hours ago, aokartman said:

Message to Rick2you2,

Those Nemesis stories were great, seek them out.  David

They really are a gas. I have most of them. They are like a crossbreed between a 1960's sitcom and a low-powered Spectre story with a little from the original 1940's movie "Here Comes Mr. Jordan" thrown in (the movie was later remade by Warren Beatty in "Heaven can Wait").

 

[PhilipB2k17]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 8:31 AM, Rick2you2 said:

Are there standards which commissioned artists are expected to follow? And if not, why the hell not?

On a recent thread I started, I noticed how a number of people complained how they would commission an artist but could end up waiting months and months to get anything. Off the boards, I heard one person complaining how a commission was paid years in advance, and still nothing. In my view, that's unprofessional. Artists are business people, not just artists. They are expected to meet production schedules; they understand the concept of deadlines. Now I don't mind if a commission runs a little late, or if an artist has good reasons for a major delay, but at the very least, the artist owes it to the buyer to reach him and explain the reasons for delay. And, if the delay is too long, to offer back the deposit at the buyer's option. By the way, I have not had this problem. 

If there aren't generally accepted standards, there should be.  In addition to time, they should include a fair amount for a deposit (so an artist like Tom Mandrake doesn't get stuck with a commission combining a scene of Jonah Hex and the Question) and sticking to agreed sizes and methods (pencil and ink vs. magic marker, for example). 

Any thoughts, or horror stories, on the subject which deserve discussion? If the results are good, maybe we could write something up.

By the way, bad business behavior by dealers and auction houses may be for a different day (like dealers who leave up OA which has already been sold).

 

Would you hire a contractor to remodel your kitchen for thousands of dollars without getting a written contract? No. I think an enterprising art reps somewhere should work with a lawyer and develop a standard art commission contract that sets the rights and responsibilities of both parties, but also has some degree of flexibility built into to it.

 

[Rick2you2]

5 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Would you hire a contractor to remodel your kitchen for thousands of dollars without getting a written contract? No. I think an enterprising art reps somewhere should work with a lawyer and develop a standard art commission contract that sets the rights and responsibilities of both parties, but also has some degree of flexibility built into to it.

 

Honestly, I'm one of those guys who writes the contracts for construction (not kitchens, however). So, I think I can say something here which is helpful. 

Contracts set out the specifics intended for a transaction, but more broadly, do so as an overlay on how the industry practices. So, in construction, the specifics are the plans and specifications for work performance, plus the price. A generality--industry practice-- is that bills are ordinarily payable in 30 days (unless the contract says otherwise). Contrast that with OA where bills are generally payable at the time the work is finished or handed over. 

You have to figure out where artists and buyers have common ground for their understandings . Then, you can write up the specifics.

[PhilipB2k17]

15 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Honestly, I'm one of those guys who writes the contracts for construction (not kitchens, however). So, I think I can say something here which is helpful. 

Contracts set out the specifics intended for a transaction, but more broadly, do so as an overlay on how the industry practices. So, in construction, the specifics are the plans and specifications for work performance, plus the price. A generality--industry practice-- is that bills are ordinarily payable in 30 days (unless the contract says otherwise). Contrast that with OA where bills are generally payable at the time the work is finished or handed over. 

You have to figure out where artists and buyers have common ground for their understandings . Then, you can write up the specifics.

The elephant in the room, is that commission contracts might be unenforceable as a matter of public policy anyway, unless the artist is creating a truly original work, rather than using copyrighted material as the basis of the Commission. A Batman commission for money is - unless authorized by DC - illegal. But, if you are asking an artist to do an original commission, or of a character they own the rights to, then it's not a problem.

Edited January 2, 2018 by PhilipB2k17