Comic Verification Authority (CVA) ?!?!?! 2 2

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

4PGs are here to stay, and will eventually become prominent in every collecting venue.

In the numismatic hobby, a green or gold sticker assures the majority of the coin community of the quality and originality of the piece.

Any collector wants to feel his/her investment is protected. In the coin collecting community, the prominent 4PG has become the insurance agency and IRA adviser, to many.

This 4PG has established a record and that record translates into higher returns at time of sale, and market preference. The 4PG simply made a market.

It should be noted it does buy what it stickers....on a rolling need basis (I am oversimplifying....the point is it gives a person a bit more confidence in the 4PG).

I am not anywhere near knowledgeable in the comics hobby. The one major difference I note, is that the comics 4PG is not examining the entire item. Yes, the "judgement"opinion is eye appeal, based on visible attributes. I get that. The coin 4PG has some advantage of accuracy, in that the coin does not have to be "opened" to render an eye appeal/quality opinion. Is that a big deal? I don't know. It seems to me that if the comic was bought in the holder, there was a level of reliance anyway by the buyer, without the buyer opening the comic. So, if it stays in the holder, then all things being equal, the comic 4PG is on equal ground with thr coin 4PG....they are both judging eye appeal and technical originality. An analogy (not perfect, I understand that: In a coin, was there a filler = was there a comic cover repair. In a coin, was there tooling = was the cover art enhanced.

My conundrum is Newton Rings. I first thought a level of equality would be toning on coins. There is and are various levels and colors and shapes, etc. of toning, and there are lovers and haters, and some toned coins are highly desired. It is a market within a market.

With Newton Rings, I see no such market enhancement. They should not be there. Period. Is the comics 4PG taking Newton Rings into account, when judging eye appeal?

What if the comics 4PG grades the comic as deserving a gold sticker, and 1 month later there are Newton rings that are so hideous the cover could be used in a horror movie and win the Oscar? Will the 4PG say "Oh, newton Rings are natural". That is the hurdle i do not see being jumped at this time, until the comics community as a whole can solve the Newton Ring problem. To me, it is not solved, and it appears there is an effort to convince the collector it is solved, because, well, it is natural. That is a problem and is in need of attention, before any 4PG making a market in comics can become the preferred market.

Just opinion, of course. I have a lot more to say on the subject, but I won't, for now. it would be boring.

[jason4]

Wait so what happens if you give them a “weak” 9.8? You get a turd sticker on your slab? You just wasted your money and you can just take it off and no one would ever know. What’s the point? I don’t get it.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

6 minutes ago, jason4 said:

Wait so what happens if you give them a “weak” 9.8? You get a turd sticker on your slab? You just wasted your money and you can just take it off and no one would ever know. What’s the point? I don’t get it.

To make a 4PG coin comparison, if the comic is originally graded...using 9.8 as an example, a green would be an agreement that it is a 9.8. If it was "weak" (using your word) 9.8, it does not get a sticker. If it is better, in that it is superior to a 9.8 (under graded in the opinion of the 4PG), it gets a gold sticker.

It certainly has not proved out to be a waste of money in the coin collecting hobby. The 4PG in that hobby has made a market that is here to stay.

[Logan510]

CGC could put these guys out of business overnight if they chose to do so. 

4PG... isn’t that what I’m paying CGC for? And now that need a 4th party to tell me that CGC got it right or sort of didn’t?

[mattn792]

11 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's nothing like PGX, and it does not offer "no value to the hobby."

Oh please.  "If we think your book looks nice, we'll put a special sticker on it.  And if we think it looks really nice, we'll put an EXTRA special sticker on it." 

Anyone who falls for that scam because they're too lazy to use their own eyes deserves to lose their money.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

3 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

CGC could put these guys out of business overnight if they chose to do so. 

4PG... isn’t that what I’m paying CGC for? And now that need a 4th party to tell me that CGC got it right or sort of didn’t?

PCGS thought it could do so,also. Fail......

[mattn792]

3 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

CGC could put these guys out of business overnight if they chose to do so. 

No doubt, but could you imagine the chaos that would ensue?  "This isn't a 9.8 weak!!!"  "Why isn't my 9.6 strong a 9.8?!?"  "This 9.8 extra strong should be a 9.9!!!"  "Secrets and Lies!!!!!!"  The level of whining at your average con would go through the stratosphere.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

1 minute ago, mattn792 said:

Oh please.  "If we think your book looks nice, we'll put a special sticker on it.  And if we think it looks really nice, we'll put an EXTRA special sticker on it." 

Anyone who falls for that scam because they're too lazy to use their own eyes deserves to lose their money.

That "scam" has transformed the economic base of numismatics, empowered collectors...hobbyists and investors and dealers alike.......and neutralized any possible  lackadaisical quality control tendencies. of TPGs. So there is that. Some don't like it. Insignificant to the collecting community it is not. At all.

[Bomber-Bob]

10 hours ago, Logan510 said:

Looking at their prices for submitting books it looks like a pile of horsefeathers.

I'm sure there are n00bs somewhere that will fall prey to this obvious cash grab.

I don't know of anyone that actually 'uses' their service = submits to them. However, I suspect their main client is Clink. While I would never submit a book to them, I do think it is filling a void, especially with Clink not showing us the Back Cover. I am more confident bidding on a CLink book with a CVA sticker. AS was previously mentioned, why all the hate for this silly little sticker ? It's really no big deal. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

Oh please.  "If we think your book looks nice, we'll put a special sticker on it.  And if we think it looks really nice, we'll put an EXTRA special sticker on it." 

Anyone who falls for that scam because they're too lazy to use their own eyes deserves to lose their money.

And how does one "use their own eyes" over the internet...?

Note the scans of ASM #252 posted above. Can you tell what is different about them from the scans?

No.

By the way....here's a comment from 2000 regarding CGC: "Oh please. "We'll put your book in a case and tell you what we think it grades." Anyone who falls for that scam because they're too lazy to use their own eyes deserves to lose money."

And yes, that statement was made, resto check aside.

Let me be very, very, VERY clear: it may not work for comics. I'm not suggesting it will. But to suggest there's ZERO application for it is to not understand that application, and the value people place on qualified analysis.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Just now, mattn792 said:

No doubt, but could you imagine the chaos that would ensue?  "This isn't a 9.8 weak!!!"  "Why isn't my 9.6 strong a 9.8?!?"  "This 9.8 extra strong should be a 9.9!!!"  "Secrets and Lies!!!!!!"  The level of whining at your average con would go through the stratosphere.

They can not put them out of business. They certainly could not do so if they attempted to start a 4PG  involving any semblance of control. that would be a death kill. Every comment so far dismissing the idea of a  4PG was voiced back in 2008. All have proved to be incorrect. The coin doctors virtually disappeared.

[mattn792]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said:

That "scam" has transformed the economic base of numismatics, empowered collectors...hobbyists and investors and dealers alike.......and neutralized any possible  lackadaisical quality control tendencies. of TPGs. So there is that. Some don't like it. Insignificant to the collecting community it is not. At all.

And yet I'm talking about comics and couldn't give a flying _____ about numismatics. 

It works for coins.  Great.  They're solid pieces of metal comprised of two sides, easily viewable in their totality.

Comics are a totally different animal.

[mattn792]

5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And how does one "use their own eyes" over the internet...?

Note the scans of ASM #252 posted above. Can you tell what is different about them from the scans?

No.

By the way....here's a comment from 2000 regarding CGC: "Oh please. "We'll put your book in a case and tell you what we think it grades." Anyone who falls for that scam because they're too lazy to use their own eyes deserves to lose money."

And yes, that statement was made, resto check aside.

Let me be very, very, VERY clear: it may not work for comics. I'm not suggesting it will. But to suggest there's ZERO application for it is to not understand that application, and the value people place on qualified analysis.

Right click, "Save As", open your new photo in a program with a zoom function (often provided for free with Windows). 

Using this simple method, I can see that the 9.8 Hulk 181 in the current CLink auction has a spine stress near Wolverine's right hand and that annoying white stripe from the printer which starts near "Super Hero".

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

2 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

And yet I'm talking about comics and couldn't give a flying _____ about numismatics. 

It works for coins.  Great.  They're solid pieces of metal comprised of two sides, easily viewable in their totality.

Comics are a totally different animal.

I understand. You may have a different opinion in a couple of years. Or not. I don't have a dog in the fight. I am not in any manner connected to the 3PGs, 4PGs or any grading company (at this point of my life). The collecting habits are not different. The propensity of collectors (human nature) to be "assured" about their holdings (insurance/investment etc.) is not different. 4PGs are touching any worthwhile economic collectible base. Whether a collector cares or not is a personal issue. That will not stop the change coming to the collectibles market. 

[Bomber-Bob]

6 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

It works for coins.  Great.  They're solid pieces of metal comprised of two sides, easily viewable in their totality.

Comics are a totally different animal.

Why ? You can't see the insides of a comic in the slab anyway. I just don't think you understand what their service is providing. In any case, what's the big deal ? It's just a small sticker. We should be arguing for the abolishment of the CLink sticker, now that is irritating. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

No doubt, but could you imagine the chaos that would ensue?  "This isn't a 9.8 weak!!!"  "Why isn't my 9.6 strong a 9.8?!?"  "This 9.8 extra strong should be a 9.9!!!"  "Secrets and Lies!!!!!!"  The level of whining at your average con would go through the stratosphere.

You weren't here then, but "Arch" has always noted something that I thought was rather telling, and an indictment of this board's comic collectors.

In early 2007ish, there was a major overhaul of the boards. 

The comics side was in an uproar about it for weeks and months...much like the 2016 overhaul.

The coin side?

Nary a peep.

I'll post these, then, here, as visual examples of the point I'm making:

 

...can you point out the differences in these coins?

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

Right click, "Save As", open your new photo in a program with a zoom function (often provided for free with Windows). 

Using this simple method, I can see that the 9.8 Hulk 181 in the current CLink auction has a spine stress near Wolverine's right hand and that annoying white stripe from the printer which starts near "Super Hero".

It's not just about wear. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said:

I understand. You may have a different opinion in a couple of years. Or not. I don't have a dog in the fight. I am not in any manner connected to the 3PGs, 4PGs or any grading company (at this point of my life). The collecting habits are not different. The propensity of collectors (human nature) to be "assured" about their holdings (insurance/investment etc.) is not different. 4PGs are touching any worthwhile economic collectible base. Whether a collector cares or not is a personal issue. That will not stop the change coming to the collectibles market. 

4PGS...?? Come on, man, you know better than that!...

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

17 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

And yet I'm talking about comics and couldn't give a flying _____ about numismatics. 

CGC would not exist if it wasn't for numismatics.

True story.

[WoWitHurts]

12 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Why ? You can't see the insides of a comic in the slab anyway. I just don't think you understand what their service is providing. In any case, what's the big deal ? It's just a small sticker. We should be arguing for the abolishment of the CLink sticker, now that is irritating. 

Hate the c-link sticker and take everyone of them off any book I get.