Popular Post RockMyAmadeus Posted March 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Celestial Comics said: It is the “right” of the creator to charge IF that is what they choose to do. Did you read this whole conversation...? Or did you read one post, and decide to fire off a response...? If the latter, I would encourage you to read the entire conversation, before stating things that no one is arguing against. 45 minutes ago, Celestial Comics said: As for are we a facilitator who “encourages” creators to “charge extra” for CGC? The answer is we “RESPECT” the creator’s rights and decision to want to charge a fee. It is THEIR right and THEIR decision to charge a fee. We don’t encourage or discourage it. We simple RESPECT it. We make nothing more from a creator who chooses to charge a fee, we simply pass the same charge onto the customer. Of course. It's not coming out of your pocket, so what do you care? Nobody has any problem with a creator charging a fee. The issue is WHY they are charging that fee and HOW they are charging that fee. The question is, have you ever (and the answer, of course, is yes, because I am an eye witness to it) interfered with other people getting things signed, and told a creator, through their handler, that they "ought to be charging people getting books done for CGC"? You directly encouraged a creator that, despite what that creator said to his fans, he needs to "charge for CGC"....not for ALL sigs, mind you, just "for CGC." You injected yourself into a situation that was none of your business, and caused a CONSIDERABLE amount of loss to several people, INCLUDING CGC, who did not get submissions they otherwise WOULD have gotten had you not interfered. Let me be clear: the creator stated, UPFRONT, that he was not charging for signatures. The creator in question is Sam Kieth, and the convention was Boston, in August of 2016. After standing in line for EIGHT HOURS, you sauntered up and demanded your handful of Sandman books be signed. When you saw people who had waited for EIGHT HOURS IN LINE with "stacks" of books, you called Albert Moy over and informed him that "those books were for CGC, and you need to CHARGE for them!"...hoping, I guess, to discourage everyone and send them away, after having waited in line for EIGHT HOURS. I guess you just assumed that window bags = "for CGC", and while that may generally true, it's not always. Even if it was true, what business is it of yours? I know all this, because I am an eye witness to it. Albert Moy, after talking to you, walked over to Sam and announced to the line, including people who had waited for EIGHT HOURS, that "anyone with books in window bags would be charged $20 per book!" He forced everyone with window bags to take them out, or they'd be charged $20 PER BOOK. AGAIN...DESPITE the fact that Sam Kieth posted, IN WRITING, PRIOR to the convention, that he was NOT charging for signatures. YOU encouraged Moy to do that. YOU cost people hundreds of dollars in lost expenses. YOU cost CGC hundreds of submissions. I don't blame Sam. I blame you and Albert, but mostly you, for playing on and exploiting Albert's greed. Because, obviously, everyone slabbing it is doing it for the fat stacks of cash, right...? NOBODY could be slabbing because they...you know...just like to slab, right...? AND despite the fact that the next day, according to fellow witnesses and facilitators I know, Sam didn't charge anything. So really, pretending you don't "encourage" it isn't quite...accurate...is it? I really think you ought to read the entire conversation before posting. 45 minutes ago, Celestial Comics said: Just as it is YOUR right to choose NOT to pay the fee and to walk away from getting you items signed. And we RESPECT that right as well. Really...? I had no idea! 45 minutes ago, Celestial Comics said: What you DON’T have a right to do, is LIE to a creator when he asks you the question if the book he is signing will be graded or not. It is because of actions like that, that has caused creators to do what they do, such as using specific facilitators or handlers to PROTECT them. You really need to read the entire conversation before posting. This has already been covered. No one should be lying to creators. Period. Creators have NO RIGHT to ask people what they intend to do with their property. It's none of their business, and it's incredibly rude. The fact that it's tolerated at all is because of the addictive behavior of collectors, who are afraid to be cut off. But it is NOT "because of actions like that"...which takes place, as far as I can tell, on a VERY limited basis, that has "caused creators to do what they do." What has caused them to do what they do is a combination of people...like yourself...misrepresenting just what CGC is, and why people slab books, a deliberate misrepresentation to secure these creators under "exclusive" terms, and the creator's lack of understanding of how the SS market actually works. Can you say "conflict of interest"...? Creators don't need goons to "protect them", any more than store owners need the Mob to "protect them." It is a racket, based on misinformation and deception, playing on the base emotions of creators and the addictive nature of collectors, for the benefit of those people who manage to convince creators that 1. people are making FAT STACKS OF $$$$ OFF YOUR SIGS, and 2. and if you just let US represent you, we'll make sure you get your FAIR SHARE of that dough! It is a scam, and it hurts creators, fans, collectors, CGC, and everyone but those perpetrating the scam. Edited March 9, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus spideyfan68, Hutch88, DocGo and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: The voice of reason has arrived thank you. There aren't enough facepalms. Nino_013, fullerjason, newshane and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TYPE-R Posted March 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, Celestial Comics said: It is the “right” of the creator to charge IF that is what they choose to do. As for are we a facilitator who “encourages” creators to “charge extra” for CGC? The answer is we “RESPECT” the creator’s rights and decision to want to charge a fee. It is THEIR right and THEIR decision to charge a fee. We don’t encourage or discourage it. We simple RESPECT it. We make nothing more from a creator who chooses to charge a fee, we simply pass the same charge onto the customer. Just as it is YOUR right to choose NOT to pay the fee and to walk away from getting you items signed. And we RESPECT that right as well. What you DON’T have a right to do, is LIE to a creator when he asks you the question if the book he is signing will be graded or not. It is because of actions like that, that has caused creators to do what they do, such as using specific facilitators or handlers to PROTECT them. RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"? We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them. They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices. philsbackpack, Nino_013, Hutch88 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post seanfingh Posted March 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, TYPE-R said: RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"? We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them. They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices. I am Sadfan, and I approve of this message. Wilddragon, RockMyAmadeus, mysterio and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, TYPE-R said: RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"? We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them. They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices. AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfingh Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I also think it is hilarious the number of straw men thrown in this discussion. No has ever argued that the creators can't do whatever they want to do. It's just that in some instances, they shouldn't. austinhg, mysterio, Wilddragon and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, ivdyer said: Possible, I plan on asking him in Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RockMyAmadeus Posted March 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Celestial Comics said: It is the “right” of the creator to charge IF that is what they choose to do. Well...the new board "software" obliterated what I wrote, so...I have to slog through it again. Sigh. Allow me, Mr. and/or Mrs. Rice, to explain a few things to you: There's a concept called "don't count my money, and I won't count yours." What it means is that " don't be concerned with how, why, or where I make my money, so long as I do it legally, and I'll show you the same respect and courtesy by not being concerned with yours." Doing the Sig Series program as a collector is a tough road. When it's just you and your facilitator and your witness and CGC, it's not very easy. When you're people like you, who have dozens or hundreds of people paying you to get stuff signed for them, I suspect it's a lot easier. I know I've seen your setup at shows. I couldn't afford it. I know you can afford to get a booth at SDCC. I know you can afford to hire all sorts of people to work for you. I can't do any of those things. Do I expect sympathy? No. It's my choice to do this, and I do it because I love the process, I love meeting creators who have made something which had an impact on my life. I love collecting. I love high grade comics. I love all these things, and I do it because I love it. I do not ask for, nor do I expect, any concessions from anyone. But what I CAN expect is that people like you don't muck it up relations with creators by misrepresenting why people do CGC in the first place. When you and people like you coach and prod these creators into thinking that anyone doing CGC is "just in it for the money", you drive a wedge between creators and fans. Creators look on anyone and everyone as a potential business rival, instead of a fan, and it makes them bitter and cynical, and suspect of everyone wanting to get a signature. "Oh, you're getting this slabbed? Filthy slabber." The contempt I have suffered from people like J. Scott Campbell, who told me he had to "sign for the fans" before he would sign my books....because, obviously, no FAN gets books slabbed, right...? And one of my heroes, Sergio Aragones, who practically SNEERED at me because he thought I was just some money grubber. Sergio Aragones! And Jae Lee, whom I have followed and whose work I have admired since Namor #26...26 YEARS ago. And Jim Starlin, who thinks the whole thing is a scam. These things hurt me. I'm considered a second class citizen by these creators whose work I love, whose work made a substantial impact on me, but to them, I'm just a dirty flipper, looking to profit off of their hard work. And WHY do they think that....? Because people like you have told them that the only reason, or most of the reason, people get things slabbed is "to make money." You played upon and exploited their fear, greed, and petty jealousy, while simultaneously taking advantage of the addict behavior of comic collectors. And don't pretend you're not. If you weren't, there would be no two-tiered pricing system. That system exists because someone came along and told them, or reinforced the idea, that people were selling their sigs on eBay for a lot of money, and they deserved a part of that, and here, if you let me represent you, I'll make sure you get your fair share of the profit!" Take a look at this book: I nearly cried when I saw this book finished, as my facilitator and probably Mike Balent can attest. This book will never leave my possession, barring some weird life catastrophe, until I die. In fact, if I pre-decease George, I would like it to go back to him, to show my appreciation and to help him understand that people really do slab books to collect them, instead of just flip them endlessly to other flippers. When I first saw that book 28 years ago, I thought to myself "wow, that white space would be PERFECT to have a sketch of Nightwing and Flash on either side!" And it took me 25 years to get it done. I get goosebumps and a little teary-eyed thinking about it NOW. It is one of the crown jewels of my collection. Is it worth money? Sure, a bit. I could probably sell it for $200-$300. It's pretty damn cool, after all. But why would I? These things MEAN something to me, which is why I do it. You know...there really ARE people who slab just because they like them. Who'da thunk it..? Here's another jewel: How cool is that? Do you know why it is signed by "Sam Jiltirn" and "J.L. Minirats" and "Ms. Natjiril"...? Because Starlin anagrammed his name in the credits, which someone wouldn't know unless they opened the book and read it. Do you have any idea how flippin' cool that is? It's friggin' awesome, and only something a nerd fanboy would love. Sure, the clunky scrawls have a slightly negative aesthetic appeal on an objective level, but who the hell cares? Starlin signed it! Tell me, do you think this book is worth "FAT STACKS OF $$$$:...? It's not. It's probably not even worth the cost to slab. But do you know what it IS? A damn cool book in a damn cool slab. When you interfered that day in August of 2016, it broke my heart. Since Sam started making public appearances again in 2010, between then and 2016, I went to every single appearance he made, except the Sacramento store signing. I have two long boxes full of books here, waiting to get signed. I was acting as a witness in Boston, and had several hundred books for my facilitator, as well as witnessing for my friend (with Balent's permission, natch) and who was a member of this board. I didn't expect him to sign them all, but you have to be prepared. You cost me, personally, several hundred dollars in a mostly wasted trip (I pay for these trips out of my own pocket.) You cost my facilitator his books being signed. And you cost CGC several hundred submissions that would, if not all at Boston, eventually have been subbed. They sit, in long boxes, unsigned, and why...? Because you had to make sure that Albert...not Sam...charged everyone "for CGC", because they're "making money!" Since that event, Sam has appeared a few more times, and I just didn't really want to bother with perhaps wasting my time again. And what should have been a wonderful event was totally overshadowed by your interference, and why...? Naked greed. "If I have to pay, everyone ELSE should have to pay!!" Do I expect anyone to empathize with me? No, of course not. Do I expect my emotional attachment to influence others in my favor? Absolutely not. Do I expect to get concessions from anyone because I'm "really a fan"? No. Do I tell creators "I'm your #1 fan, and would never, EVER sell ANYTHING you signed for me!" No, of course not, because it's not true, and unethical to manipulate a creator like that. Should what I do with my books matter to anyone else? NO! Not in the SLIGHTEST! But by the same token...what I do with my books shouldn't matter to anyone else! Is it ANYONE'S business what I, or anyone else, does with our property? NO! If you're going to interfere with other people and their collecting pursuits, by telling creators things which aren't true, like "the only reason people slab is for $$$$", then I am going to explain where I come from, and set the record straight. Don't count my money, and I won't count yours. Edited March 9, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus Turtle, letsgrumble, Wilddragon and 5 others 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddwarf666222 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, TYPE-R said: RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Respect doesn't work that way just because you are his fan does not mean the creator has to respect you. 1 hour ago, TYPE-R said: Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Always keep a receipt and a written record of the agreed upon service done through email. If the artist refuses to honor ask for a refund or refuse the work. 1 hour ago, TYPE-R said: Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"? As long as they tell you up front "For Ebay" and or "Do Not Slab" will be written on the book and gave you the option, then they respected your property enough to give you that warning and left you an option for their service or not. 1 hour ago, TYPE-R said: We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them. HaHaHaHa There is always enough fans to replace the ones that leave. It's like thinking you are indispensable at a work place unless you are the owner you are dispensable. 2 hours ago, TYPE-R said: They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices. Maybe they think your behavior is rude. Greedy practices? Hmm if they care more about money than fans that is their business not yours. Maybe they want to make sure they have enough money for retirement and know there is only so long to bring it in before they are not as popular as they once were. Maybe it is disgruntled fans who think they are entitled to something they are not actually entitled making the business not fun for others to quit. If you don't like it then don't participate in it. If that is what the creator wants is money if the item is being submitted then that is their choice and entitled to, your thoughts on is none of their business as to what happens to the item afterwards and why are they asking you upfront is their right. They have the right to refuse to serve you which is the action of signing the comic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: 2 hours ago, TYPE-R said: RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Respect doesn't work that way just because you are his fan does not mean the creator has to respect you. It doesn't? That's an odd way to look at mutual respect. 3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: 2 hours ago, TYPE-R said: Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"? As long as they tell you up front "For Ebay" and or "Do Not Slab" will be written on the book and gave you the option, then they respected your property enough to give you that warning and left you an option for their service or not. That's not what happened. You're making statements concerning matters about which you are not informed. 5 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: 2 hours ago, TYPE-R said: We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them. HaHaHaHa There is always enough fans to replace the ones that leave. It's like thinking you are indispensable at a work place unless you are the owner you are dispensable. Really...? Guess you weren't buying comics in the late 90's/early 00's...? 6 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: 2 hours ago, TYPE-R said: They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices. Maybe they think your behavior is rude. Greedy practices? Hmm if they care more about money than fans that is their business not yours. Maybe they want to make sure they have enough money for retirement and know there is only so long to bring it in before they are not as popular as they once were. So, it's the fans' responsibility to subsidize someone's retirement...? How about creating something that people want, and are happy to pay you for...? Aas far as "maybe they think your behavior is rude", perhaps. I daresay, however, that I've never seen anyone ask a creator how they intend to spend the money they were paid for signing. THAT would be rude. And yet...that's exactly what these creators are doing: asking you what you intend to do with YOUR property! Wait, who's being rude again...? 9 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: Maybe it is disgruntled fans who think they are entitled to something they are not actually entitled making the business not fun for others to quit. If you don't like it then don't participate in it. Yes, the ever popular "if you don't like it, don't do it!" line. Never do the people making these statements consider the truth: that the reason people complain is because they DO like it, but don't think it's being done as well as it could be. No, no, that's never considered. "Shut up and quit complaining. If you don't like it, go somewhere else." 10 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: If that is what the creator wants is money if the item is being submitted then that is their choice and entitled to, your thoughts on is none of their business as to what happens to the item afterwards and why are they asking you upfront is their right. They have the right to refuse to serve you which is the action of signing the comic Yes, yes, you've said this over and over and over again, and no one is disputing it. However, you keep saying something that is not accurate. It is not their right to know what you intend to do with your property. No one has that right, so long as what you intend to do is legal. They have the right to ASK...but they don't have the right to KNOW. And, if I say "none of your business", that IS my right, because it's none of their business. Does that mean they can refuse to sign? Of course. But they shouldn't be asking in the first place. It's rude, intrusive, and no one's business but the property owner's. And in the real world...the world not populated by addicts afraid of being cut off...and I certainly admit, I'm in that camp...such a question would NEVER be tolerated. Who do you think you are, asking me what I am going to do with my property? Mind your own damn business! Wilddragon, Harley Troy and TYPE-R 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddwarf666222 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: Who do you think you are, asking me what I am going to do with my property? Mind your own damn business! What are you planning to do with your signed Falco record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYPE-R Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 RMA beat me to it but I'd like to add, 20 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: Hmm if they care more about money than fans that is their business not yours. So I shouldn't care about a creators business but they can care about mine? It's my book, I bought it, I paid for the sig. What I choose to do with the book is my business not theirs. Wilddragon, RockMyAmadeus and Hutch88 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RockMyAmadeus Posted March 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 And you know, that's really, deep down, at the heart of it: that people I idolize look at me with a measure of contempt, because they judge me...by appearance only, mind you...as someone who cares nothing about their work, and just wants to make money off of them. Isn't that what a publisher does? Isn't that what a printer does? Isn't that what a distributor does? Isn't that what a retailer does? Make money off of creators? And aren't some of those people fans...? Surely, some are. And aren't those people making money off a far more significant effort than just a signature? Absolutely. When a creator tells me "you have to pay EXTRA because of how you like to collect", that is an expression of contempt. I don't care what the amount they charge is. If Starlin charged $1,000, and I could only afford to get one book signed, I'd still probably do it. It's the second class citizen mentality of the "CGC punishment charge" that really bothers me, and it would bother me no matter WHAT the amount is. Capullo, Miller, Claremont, Golden, Zeck, Snyder, Cho, Janson, Portacio, Jim Lee, McFarlane....all these guys who charge a higher price if you want to slab your book just breaks my heart. And if those guys knew the truth of the matter, I suspect most of them would change their positions. I've read every single issue of Groo published from 1982 to 2007, and I can tell you where the hidden messages are in most of the Epic run. I can give you a plot outline of every issue of Silver Surfer #34-50 AND Batman #414-430. I can quote lines from ASM #300 from memory: "Slowly, Peter's spirits begin to rise", which is a naughty double entendre. But, you know...I'm not a "real fan" because I like to slab. And every time I see a new announcement of someone being "exclusively represented", with a "it's this price for raws, and that price for slabbed!" I get a little sick to my stomach, because it just means another creator has bought into the lie they've been fed, and decided to treat fans differently from other fans, based on nothing more than how someone likes to collect. And I'm not too proud to say that hurts. Par2ch, mysterio, STORMSHADOW_80 and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadiantGraphix Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Celestial Comics said: It is the “right” of the creator to charge IF that is what they choose to do. As for are we a facilitator who “encourages” creators to “charge extra” for CGC? The answer is we “RESPECT” the creator’s rights and decision to want to charge a fee. It is THEIR right and THEIR decision to charge a fee. We don’t encourage or discourage it. We simple RESPECT it. We make nothing more from a creator who chooses to charge a fee, we simply pass the same charge onto the customer. Just as it is YOUR right to choose NOT to pay the fee and to walk away from getting you items signed. And we RESPECT that right as well. What you DON’T have a right to do, is LIE to a creator when he asks you the question if the book he is signing will be graded or not. It is because of actions like that, that has caused creators to do what they do, such as using specific facilitators or handlers to PROTECT them. If we brought our own witness from the CGC booth, would we be allowed to just ask for a signature at the "signature only" rate then? Because if the creator thinks that they can charge the extra fee to people who CGC their books because it creates extra work for them, then by that logic if I DID ALLTHE WORK INVOLVED MYSELF, then I should be able to get the signature at the lower cost, right? The point that's trying to be made here is that the creators have been TRICKED into thinking that people who slab their books are all selling those items on eBay. They've also been tricked into thinking that they are ENTITLED a share of the profits from any possible future sale of a slabbed book. Does the person who painted your house get a share of the profit from final sale price when you sell it down the line? No. They charge you the price to paint everything and they reap thier profits from THAT pool of cash, not ask for a second stab at it because you MIGHT sell the house. I agree that they should be able to charge more IF AND ONLY IF they make special arrangements for something like a "private signing" or something like Todd McFarlane or Jim Lee often does - there is an obvious additional cost involved there. But if they DO charge more, they should be charging EVERYONE more, not just slabbers. Just because I want to have my book graded for longevity, authenticity, and display, what is supposed to entitle a creator to extra profit on that item? Why should you get a slice of the profit? And that's THE ONLY other possible rationale that they could be using to charge more to sign their name on a book that is going to be graded. That's not really how is supposed to work, and that's not how it worked for the first 10-15 years that CGC existed, why has it suddenly changed? Your blind support of this as their "right" to charge one person more for the exact same thing is wrong-headed and complicit. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to condense the conversation down a little so it's easier to understand how these creators have been tricked by not being challenged on this practice. It's allowed the LIE to persist. That's all. RockMyAmadeus and Wilddragon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddwarf666222 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, RadiantGraphix said: I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to condense the conversation down a little so it's easier to understand how these creators have been tricked by not being challenged on this practice. It's allowed the LIE to persist. That's all. They have been tricked in your mind. You are not being confrontational more of entitled feeling coming from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadiantGraphix Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said: They have been tricked in your mind. You are not being confrontational more of entitled feeling coming from you. I guess we know who's swallowed the blue pill, and who's swallowed the red pill here. (And who's read the entire thread, and who hasn't) Edited March 10, 2018 by RadiantGraphix Wilddragon and RockMyAmadeus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 RockyMountain is right. Two tiered pricing is killing the SS program, one twenty dollar bill at a time. RadiantGraphix and Wilddragon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrain Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Wilddragon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 3 hours ago, RadiantGraphix said: If we brought our own witness from the CGC booth, would we be allowed to just ask for a signature at the "signature only" rate then? Because if the creator thinks that they can charge the extra fee to people who CGC their books because it creates extra work for them, then by that logic if I DID ALLTHE WORK INVOLVED MYSELF, then I should be able to get the signature at the lower cost, right? The point that's trying to be made here is that the creators have been TRICKED into thinking that people who slab their books are all selling those items on eBay. They've also been tricked into thinking that they are ENTITLED a share of the profits from any possible future sale of a slabbed book. Does the person who painted your house get a share of the profit from final sale price when you sell it down the line? No. They charge you the price to paint everything and they reap thier profits from THAT pool of cash, not ask for a second stab at it because you MIGHT sell the house. I agree that they should be able to charge more IF AND ONLY IF they make special arrangements for something like a "private signing" or something like Todd McFarlane or Jim Lee often does - there is an obvious additional cost involved there. But if they DO charge more, they should be charging EVERYONE more, not just slabbers. Just because I want to have my book graded for longevity, authenticity, and display, what is supposed to entitle a creator to extra profit on that item? Why should you get a slice of the profit? And that's THE ONLY other possible rationale that they could be using to charge more to sign their name on a book that is going to be graded. That's not really how is supposed to work, and that's not how it worked for the first 10-15 years that CGC existed, why has it suddenly changed? Your blind support of this as their "right" to charge one person more for the exact same thing is wrong-headed and complicit. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to condense the conversation down a little so it's easier to understand how these creators have been tricked by not being challenged on this practice. It's allowed the LIE to persist. That's all. Right on, right on, right ON. Wilddragon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 2 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said: They have been tricked in your mind. You are not being confrontational more of entitled feeling coming from you. No, they have been tricked in reality. Do you just not understand how any of this works...? Wilddragon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...