Archie UK Price Variants 5 5

[Get Marwood & I]

Morning 

Regular readers, sorry, Rakehell will know that I have yet to identify who was responsible for ordering and distributing the Archie Comics UK Price Variants. There are two UK distributors in the frame - L Miller & Co and Thorpe & Porter. 

The Archie books themselves have no distinguishing marks. There is no 'LM' next to the price, as there is with Charlton UKPVs (see below) and no bespoke indicia details to say that the books were 'exclusively distributed' by either company as is the case with early Marvel comics:

       
            Charlton 'LM' logo                        Miller Marvel                     T&P Marvel

Archie UKPVs have just the cover price change - everything else is the same, on all 24 confirmed issues:

    

The Archie UKPV cover date window is only six months - March 1960 to August 1960. The March 1960 (Archie #108) book holds the record of earliest known UKPV of all the seven publishers, incidentally.

In the absence of a distinguishing distributor mark, the next logical step is to look at the UK distributed cents copies. Typically, copies exist with both L Miller and T&P stamps - two examples below:

       
                         L Miller 9d Distribution Stamp                                        Thorpe & Porter 9d Distribution Stamp

I've been collecting, and gathering images of stamped copies for some time now and an analysis of the dates shows as follows:

1. Thorpe & Porter UK Distribution Stamps (Cents Copies) - exist from mid-1959 to early 1964
2. UK Price Variants - exist from March 1960 to August 1960
3. L Miller UK Distribution Stamps (Cents Copies) - exist from December 1961 to late 1963

Looking at those dates, the logical assumption is that T&P were responsible for the UKPVs as there is no evidence that Miller was in the frame in that period. Additionally, There is only one known UKPV for The Adventures of The Fly - the May 1960 cover dated number six. Here are my two copies:

       

T&P stamped cents copies exist for issues #1, and then 7 through to #29. Here's #8, to illustrate:

      

It doesn't seem likely to me that Miller could have been responsible for the Archie UKPVs given that:

• The UKPVs are surrounded by T&P stamped cents copies
• Miller distribution evidence does not emerge until over a year later (their 9d LM stamped copies)
• There are no distinguishing Miller marks on the UKPVs as per their Charltons & Marvels

So it seems Thorpe & Porter are the safe, logical bet.

This copy is likely telling too I suppose - the only printed UKPV I've seen with a UK stamp on it too, and it's a T&P:

     

Interestingly, you'll see that the T&P and Miller stamped copy dates cross over in my date analysis above. It appears that Miller adopted the Archie cast titles (Archie, Jughead, B&V etc) whereas T&P retained the super hero lines - these two May 1962 cover dated books illustrate:

     

I wonder how that worked contractually - that split of titles across two different UK distributors? The same as it did with the early Marvels I presume. 

So, in conclusion, the evidence shows that:

• T&P were the first to distribute UK stamped Archie Comics in the UK from mid-1959 cover dates
• T&P were likely responsible for the six months of printed UKPVs
• T&P shared the UK stamped distribution with L Miller from December 1961

Enjoy that Daphne? @rakehell

All good fun 

[rakehell]

On 7/21/2021 at 11:38 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Regular readers, sorry, Rakehell will know that I have yet to identify who was responsible for ordering and distributing the Archie Comics UK Price Variants.

A glaring omission & not like you at all. Seriously, though, it ain't easy getting to the bottom of these rabbit-hole issues. I wish I had more time to research this as well, but work has been a bit full-on of late. The scarcity of the Archie UKPPV issues is a real bugger, as well. They're as rare as rocking horse poop.

On 7/21/2021 at 11:38 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Here are my two copies:

Greedy. I don't even have one copy.

On 7/21/2021 at 11:38 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

The March 1960 (Archie #108) book holds the record of earliest known UKPV of all the seven publishers, incidentally.

Interesting. I wonder why Archie Comics got there first. Were their sales volumes similar to Marvel/Atlas or DC?

On 7/21/2021 at 11:38 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It appears that Miller adopted the Archie cast titles (Archie, Jughead, B&V etc) whereas T&P retained the super hero lines - these two May 1962 cover dated books illustrate:

Again, interesting. Why 2 distributors? Who did the UK published Archies? Was it T&P?

On 7/21/2021 at 11:38 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Enjoy that Daphne?

Yes, Velma. All in all, a solid conjecture, I think. Nice work, but I expect nothing less from the likes of you. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/21/2021 at 12:24 PM, rakehell said:

A glaring omission & not like you at all. Seriously, though, it ain't easy getting to the bottom of these rabbit-hole issues. I wish I had more time to research this as well, but work has been a bit full-on of late. The scarcity of the Archie UKPPV issues is a real bugger, as well. They're as rare as rocking horse poop.

They are. I look at the gaps where there should be a UKPV and wonder how long I will have to wait for one damn copy to materialise. 

You know me, I look for patterns, and sometimes they are there. Look at these three:

There are never more than four UKPVs per title. Could that lone Katy have taken Jughead #62's position in error? I kind of proved that scenario with two of the Marvel UKPV titles where one lone UKPV seemed to take the place of another ongoing UKPV titles issue. 

But if Jughead #62 does exist, or Laugh #112 for that matter, where in the world are they? Not one copy, one sniff in the last 3 years of intensive looking. The most copies of one Archie UKPV I have seen is four. At this rate we could all go to our makers without ever knowing if these missing issues are by design. 

On 7/21/2021 at 12:24 PM, rakehell said:

Greedy. I don't even have one copy.

Don't be too envious, one of them is falling apart 

On 7/21/2021 at 12:24 PM, rakehell said:

Interesting. I wonder why Archie Comics got there first. Were their sales volumes similar to Marvel/Atlas or DC?

Someone has to be first I suppose. US Archie sales were massive as I recall but I doubt that had any bearing on it. They're still comparatively scarce whether UKPVs or stamped in comparison to Marvel etc. And a six month UKPV window doesn't scream success does it.

On 7/21/2021 at 12:24 PM, rakehell said:

Again, interesting. Why 2 distributors? Who did the UK published Archies? Was it T&P?

Dunno without looking. Don't forget, Marvel UKPVs were split between Miller and T&P at the start. I know T&P won the war, and Miller has been largely forgotten, but maybe there was a rivalry at the time. Maybe Miller was the front runner, who knows. 

On 7/21/2021 at 12:24 PM, rakehell said:

Yes, Velma. All in all, a solid conjecture, I think. Nice work, but I expect nothing less from the likes of you. 

As I always say, it's something to do. Similar musings over at Marvel yesterday, if you get five Daphne. All I got for my troubles was a typo correction 

[rakehell]

On 7/21/2021 at 1:24 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

You know me, I look for patterns, and sometimes they are there. Look at these three:

That's bloody infuriating. I think it's stuff like this that keeps me floating off to search for old Star Wars trading cards on ebay. You spend weeks checking the same dozen or so saved searches for Archie UKPPVs (or that Dell Twilight Zone I missed a few weeks back) with zero results & you get a bit disheartened. I've got this weird callus at the base of my palm that tells me when I've spent too long on ebay. 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:24 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Don't be too envious, one of them is falling apart

Still 2 more than I have. 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:24 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Someone has to be first.

Well, yeah. I would have thought being first might imply a bit more enthusiasm on Archie's part. But, maybe that's me being too logical.

On 7/21/2021 at 1:24 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Don't forget, Marvel UKPVs were split between Miller and T&P at the start.

Good point. 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:24 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Similar musings over at Marvel yesterday, if you get five Daphne. All I got for my troubles was a typo correction 

On my way...

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/21/2021 at 1:46 PM, rakehell said:

You spend weeks checking the same dozen or so saved searches for Archie UKPPVs (or that Dell Twilight Zone I missed a few weeks back) with zero results & you get a bit disheartened. I've got this weird callus at the base of my palm that tells me when I've spent too long on ebay. 

Ah, yes. 'No Life Hand', they call it, in the medical profession....

 

[143ksk]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

 

On 7/21/2021 at 6:24 AM, rakehell said:

Interesting. I wonder why Archie Comics got there first. Were their sales volumes similar to Marvel/Atlas or DC?

Someone has to be first I suppose. US Archie sales were massive as I recall but I doubt that had any bearing on it. They're still comparatively scarce whether UKPVs or stamped in comparison to Marvel etc. And a six month UKPV window doesn't scream success does it.

In that time frame, DC and Dell were at the top of the US sales heap, with Archie next. Marvel/Atlas lagged far behind.

[Get Marwood & I]

Morning 

I had one of those disaster weeks on eBay this week - you know, the ones where you lose out on everything by either not bidding enough, timing error or through some inexplicable one in a million technical glitch type calamity.

Anyway, I noticed that the UKPV date eligible Archie #109 was hiding in this lot, just in front of the 110 (which is a confirmed UKPV book):

I managed to lose it, along with a few other lots that night.

The seller kindly confirmed that #109 and 110 in the lot had 9d prices but has so far not come through with a picture. Understandable really, as I didn't win. I'm surprised they even replied to be honest, but some people are decent like that, even today.

So unless the seller comes through, or the winner is a reader here, and posts their win, I will have to keep #109 as unconfirmed for now:

Bloody annoying, but what can you do.....

 

[Get Marwood & I]

@rakehell 

[rakehell]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:05 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I had one of those disaster weeks on eBay this week - you know, the ones where you lose out on everything by either not bidding enough, timing error or through some inexplicable one in a million technical glitch type calamity.

That sounds like 90% of my eBay activity.  Many a time I've lost out on the deal of the century (or week, at least) 50 bloody pence, or something equally ridiculous. I don't help myself by being a chintzy bugger. And I'm rarely able to actually watch an auction right to the end. Still, I do win a few of 'em. Enough to keep me going at least. 

On 8/21/2021 at 8:05 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I will have to keep #109 as unconfirmed for now

I agree. Until you clock it yourself, it doesn't exist.

On 8/21/2021 at 8:05 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Bloody annoying

It is.

On 8/21/2021 at 8:05 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

but what can you do

Nowt.

[rakehell]

On 8/26/2021 at 4:11 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Now you've got me excited. Backstory, please.

Looks like a nice copy, too. You got a better shot of that?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:29 AM, rakehell said:

Now you've got me excited. Backstory, please.

Looks like a nice copy, too. You got a better shot of that?

I knew you'd be excited. I'm on the road today - will pm tonight or tomorrow. I held it in my hands Daphers...

[rakehell]

On 8/27/2021 at 8:13 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I held it in my hands Daphers...

Ah. I saw something yesterday about you picking up some pencey Westerns at a little con somewhere. If you left it, it must have been expensive. 

p.s. If I don't reply to your pm until next week, it's only because I'm not paying attention. 

Drive safe, Velma.

[rakehell]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:05 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I managed to lose it, along with a few other lots that night.

How much did you miss it by? Just curious. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Evening 

I just finished reading today's paper and thought I'd post something before I retire.

Earlier today, Pat  brought me a nice parcel which included a gaggle of L Miller stamped cents Archies which I managed to snaffle off the bay a few days earlier.

Here they be, adorned 9d:

I'm quite taken with some of these Archie's lately. Very colourful and with some nice hidden dooblontendres.

And B&V are always worth the price of admission, cents or pence 

Eh? Oh. Sorry, girls.

They're not the UK Price Variants of the Fred title of course, if you were floundering, but they're in the UK distribution ballpark so I'm allowing it.

I'll be doing another bit of 'UK distribution' analysis soon as it goes, once I've assimilated them. A few T&P's in there too. 

Do pop back for it, won't you?

T-ra 

P.S. Despite some very promising banter, my aforementioned ebay lady failed to provide the requested Archie #109 UKPV evidence. So it remains on the missing list. 

 

[rakehell]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:57 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Earlier today, Pat  brought me a nice parcel which included a gaggle of L Miller stamped cents Archies which I managed to snaffle off the bay a few days earlier.

Here they be, adorned 9d:

That's a tidy little pile, Helga.

On 10/25/2021 at 10:57 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm quite taken with some of these Archie's lately.

Snap. I'm still not seeing many, though. I think you might have better saved searches than me.

On 10/25/2021 at 10:57 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Do pop back for it, won't you?

I will, but I'm off for a couple of days, so don't think I don't care. I'm just not paying attention (again).

On 10/25/2021 at 10:57 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

T-ra 

And a toodle-pip to you. 

[rakehell]

Found one to match your set above -

Too late for a pence copy, but it's got a nice stamp.

And only 99p! 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:27 AM, rakehell said:

And only 99p! 

No flake! 

Here's my 88:

Is this your one? I save all images to the files. Three of these, I've seen so far.

No UKPV as you say Maud, but there is a 15cv of that one.

I'm going to completely rewrite my Archie journal page at some point, and include a post about the Miller distributed cents copies. I like to get Miller on the radar whenever possible - he's been unfairly overlooked down the years. 

 

 

[rakehell]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:39 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Is this your one?

Yep, Hilda. Got it with a nice Space Family Robinson #19 -

Also with a lovely stamp -

Also 99p! 

On 11/10/2021 at 12:39 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm going to completely rewrite my Archie journal page at some point, and include a post about the Miller distributed cents copies.

I look forward to being the only other person to read that. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:37 PM, rakehell said:

Yep, Hilda. Got it with a nice Space Family Robinson #19 -

Also with a lovely stamp -

Also 99p! 

I look forward to being the only other person to read that. 

I'll send you the link Matilda, as it will most likely be on the off world colony now...

[rakehell]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:01 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'll send you the link Matilda, as it will most likely be on the off world colony now...

Please, Donna. If you're doing a blog, or some such blather, I'll want to read it.