If great story/art determined value: What books would be keys? 2 2

[VintageComics]

And to my recollection, I don't think any artist of the last 40 years created as much of a buzz as Frank Miller did. :Literally everything he touched became a collectible and most artists changed their styles to emulate his back in the 80's when his popularity peaked.

Jim Lee was the only other that I can think of that took off on that scale.

Maybe I'm forgetting someone?

Of course. I forgot McFarlane.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by VintageComics

[Ken Aldred]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

It used to ALWAYS be the case that art and stories were valued more than their surrounding issues and even considered keys.

This was when people actually read comics.

 

ECs provided readers with an easy,  'one-stop shop' for the majority of the A-list comic artists of the early 50s, as well as a high standard of writing.

Little wonder the New Trend books were so revered.  Very little mediocrity to wade through - quite a rarity.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Ken Aldred

[NoMan]

23 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

ECs provided readers with an easy,  'one-stop shop' for the majority of the A-list comic artists of the early 50s, as well as a high standard of writing.

Little wonder the New Trend books were so revered.  Very little mediocrity to wade through - quite a rarity.

wait, I thought EC "New Trend" were the books that came after the Government crack down. Titles like Terror Illustrated, Shock Illustrated, etc. I thought these books were not as good as the previous ones.

Probably got my EC history mixed up

[Ken Aldred]

7 minutes ago, NoMan said:

wait, I thought EC "New Trend" were the books that came after the Government crack down. Titles like Terror Illustrated, Shock Illustrated, etc. I thought these books were not as good as the previous ones.

Probably got my EC history mixed up

The later, neutered EC titles were 'New Direction' and, the ones above, 'Picto-Fiction'.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Ken Aldred

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

And to my recollection, I don't think any artist of the last 40 years created as much of a buzz as Frank Miller did. 

 

When did you think his slide to being really, really bad (Think All Star Batman and Robin, and the New Dark Night Returns or whatever it's called) begin? Or do you believe he's still good?

I believe I gave up on Miller with the 1988-ish Hardback Electra Lives Again and the Bill S. Electra 8 issue thingee. I've bought his newer stuff now and than and it sucks the chrome off trailer hitches. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by NoMan
Being more specific with level of how much Frank Miller currently sucks

[Ken Aldred]

24 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I believe I gave up on Miller with the 1988-ish Hardback Electra Lives Again

That's one that definitely polarises.

Some like the art there, but I think it looks rather sloppy and scratchy. The tipping point for me, when I lost interest in his work.

[NoMan]

11 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

That's one that definitely polarises.

Some like the art there, but I think it looks rather sloppy and scratchy. The tipping point for me, when I lost interest in his work.

 There is a good chance I don't know what I'm talking about Re: Miller. Someone in the coffee shop this morning said I wasn't "Woke"

STAY WOKE!

[VintageComics]

51 minutes ago, NoMan said:

When did you think his slide to being really, really bad (Think All Star Batman and Robin, and the New Dark Night Returns or whatever it's called) begin? Or do you believe he's still good?

I'm a die hard Miller fan.

I even like his garbage but it's more out of nostalgia than actual appreciation for the quality of work. I probably would have a hard time actually being objective.

 

 

 

[Aweandlorder]

5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

And to my recollection, I don't think any artist of the last 40 years created as much of a buzz as Frank Miller did. :Literally everything he touched became a collectible and most artists changed their styles to emulate his back in the 80's when his popularity peaked.

Jim Lee was the only other that I can think of that took off on that scale.

Maybe I'm forgetting someone?

Of course. I forgot McFarlane.

 

Art Adams

[SteppinRazor]

10 hours ago, VintageComics said:

And to my recollection, I don't think any artist of the last 40 years created as much of a buzz as Frank Miller did. :Literally everything he touched became a collectible and most artists changed their styles to emulate his back in the 80's when his popularity peaked.

Jim Lee was the only other that I can think of that took off on that scale.

Maybe I'm forgetting someone?

Of course. I forgot McFarlane.

 

mcFarlane was not really imitated

[kav]

16 hours ago, NoMan said:

On 6/23/2018 at 1:45 PM, Sal said:

any issue of Love and Rockets.  honestly, Jaime Hernandez might be the best writer/artist in comic history.  his work is flawless.  flawless

Sal, I've tried w/ Love and Rockets. Again and again. What am I missing? I can't get it to work for me, however, if you're a Hernandez/Love & Rockets scholar than I'll try again. Please give me a book to begin with and I'll try once more. Thank you. 

I like the gilbert stuff the jaime stuff lacks any real story.  But even the gilbert stuff became repetetive and I stopped reading long ago.

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, SteppinRazor said:

mcFarlane was not really imitated

Really? You don't think that the early 1990's were basically a bunch of artists that emulated McFarlane?

Just as the 80's were basically an emulation of Miller's style, I saw the 90's as an emulation of McFarlane's style. Even Jim Lee at one point looked like TM.

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Ken Aldred]

I thought a lot of the exaggerated figure work from that period resembled early (mid 80s) Arthur Adams’ style,  such as in his Longshot mini-series.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Ken Aldred

[SteppinRazor]

5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Really? You don't think that the early 1990's were basically a bunch of artists that emulated McFarlane?

Just as the 80's were basically an emulation of Miller's style, I saw the 90's as an emulation of McFarlane's style. Even Jim Lee at one point looked like TM.

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I've always found McFarlane's work doughy and cartoony, so I can't say I saw much of that influence.  I didn't collect a wide range of titles though

[Ken Aldred]

1 hour ago, SteppinRazor said:

doughy

That’s a good adjective.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Ken Aldred

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Ken Aldred said:

That’s a good adjective.

You have a woman's adjective! I'll wager that adjective has never found itself describing the lash of the sevens seas!

Rhubarb, rhubarb...

[ComicConnoisseur]

8 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Really? You don't think that the early 1990's were basically a bunch of artists that emulated McFarlane?

Just as the 80's were basically an emulation of Miller's style, I saw the 90's as an emulation of McFarlane's style. Even Jim Lee at one point looked like TM.

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Right now the comic book industry needs major stars like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore. Yep, there a lot of talented current comic creators,but none have that star power that made a whole generation go ga-ga over them.

Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore era was about 25-35 years ago and here we are still talking about them. I don't see current creators today who will be talked about 25-35 years from now like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore are still.

That could be a major flaw going forward for the hobby, as new generations need their heroes/stars like we did?

This thread is a perfect example, as in I don't see any new stuff being talked about that would be considered keys because of story/art to determine value.

The discussion seems to end in the early 1990s which was about 25 years ago

Surely, there has to be creators since then that has shaken the comic book world like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore? It seems like comic books had this great growth period between 1961 to mid-1990s,than all of a sudden it just stopped and seems like it is going thru the motions.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

3 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

I've always found McFarlane's work doughy and cartoony, so I can't say I saw much of that influence.  I didn't collect a wide range of titles though

He is a rockstar of comics and worth about 400 million. Probably richer than Stan Lee and the all-time richest comic book creator.  This guy is one shrewd businessman. Kind of like Gene Simmons of Kiss. Knows how to market himself,but stepped on a few toes along the way.

If it wasn't for him there would be no Image Comics most likely. He is what drove the engine of Image to be born and kept it afloat during the lean years.

Imagine if he left Image during the late 90s? We might not have The Walking Dead as we know it today.

[NoMan]

7 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Right now the comic book industry needs major stars like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore. Yep, there a lot of talented current comic creators,but none have that star power that made a whole generation go ga-ga over them.

Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore era was about 25-35 years ago and here we are still talking about them. I don't see current creators today who will be talked about 25-35 years from now like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore are still.

That could be a major flaw going forward for the hobby, as new generations need their heroes/stars like we did?

This thread is a perfect example, as in I don't see any new stuff being talked about that would be considered keys because of story/art to determine value.

The discussion seems to end in the early 1990s which was about 25 years ago

Surely, there has to be creators since then that has shaken the comic book world like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore? It seems like comic books had this great growth period between 1961 to mid-1990s,than all of a sudden it just stopped and seems like it is going thru the motions.

 

what about the Dell O Motto guy (or whatever his name is) that always makes every thread he's brought up in in Moderns reduce participants to bitter arguing like children refusing to lie down for nap at the pre-school. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

31 minutes ago, NoMan said:

what about the Dell O Motto guy (or whatever his name is) that always makes every thread he's brought up in in Moderns reduce participants to bitter arguing like children refusing to lie down for nap at the pre-school. 

From my understanding Gabriele Dell’Otto is just a covers artist and does no inside work.

He is a very talented cover artist though. 

Frank Miller and that rest of the gang I mentioned were more than just doing covers.

So yeah that is a difference I guess.