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[CLOSED] Stan Lee File Copy Signed Silver Surfer Books 6, 11, and 14
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Started by Ragu35,

13 posts in this topic

Ragu35

Ragu35

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Posted (edited)

Hey everyone. Looking to sell or possibly trade some pieces of comic book history! All three are from the Stan Lee File Copy collection. Can send more pics if needed. Please note, the SS 14 has a small crack on the top back portion of the label. Doesn’t break the seal. I didn’t want to reslab the book to keep it authentic. I personally prefer them in the old CGC label. Other than that, these slabs are in great shape considering they’re 16 years old.

You don’t see these come up much, especially signed. 

Asking $900 a piece for the 6 and 11, $1,500 for the 14. OBO of course. Would be willing to trade for a Hulk 181 or silver age keys, specifically early FF or ASM. Open to other books for trade, just ask! PayPal only, unless you’re local and want to pay in person. I live in Connecticut. Price includes shipping and insurance. 7 day no hassle return policy.

Message with any questions. Thanks!

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Edited by Ragu35
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Ragu35

Ragu35

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17 hours ago, Knightsofold said:

Any pics of the inside?  Or something that IDs them as a file copy?  Thanks

Knight, I called CGC and asked that same question. Was hoping for some paperwork. They said being labeled on the slab was it.

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bluechip

bluechip

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Reading this caused me to revisit a recent thread on this topic and discover an old one, which spurred me to revisit one of my comments:

 

Stan Lee worked for Marvel between the time he was hired in December of 1940 and the 1970s, when he scaled back his writing and editing chores to be the publisher and focus on other media.  In that time, he wrote and/or edited literally thousands of comicbooks.  But, when Heritage acquired Stan Lee’s “file copies” for auctions in 2002 and 2003, he had only a few hundred books for them. 

Stan said at the time the books were the only copies he’d kept “all these years.”  Stan has said in other interviews that he “never really collected” the comics he made, and wished he’d had the foresight to collect copies for later resale, because they increased so much in value.

According to a friend of Lee’s, who was quoted in a Rolling Stone article in 1971. Stan had initially kept a copy of “every book he’d worked on” -- but they were all destroyed years earlier, by a leak in the wall.   It makes sense to think that as a young man he might have routinely saved each book (or that his wife did).   And it makes sense that the destruction of all those books might have caused Lee (or his wife) to give up on saving a copy of every book.   It makes even more sense when you consider that during the 1950s Lee became disillusioned with his work in comics, and had almost quit prior to creating the Fantastic Four in 1961, which led to much unexpected, and unprecedented, success. 

While all that makes sense, some old school collectors have seized on Lee’s comments that he “didn’t collect” comics (and/or the Rolling Stone report that Lee’s collection was destroyed) to assert that Stan Lee must not have had any copies to give to Heritage in 2002.   And that, therefore, Lee must have “faked” a collection in order to “cash in”.

Coincidentally, the people who make that assertion also happen to be the same people who’ve made it clear they don’t like the notion that creator-owned copies should have any added value.   But let’s consider their assertions, anyway.

The person quoted in the Rolling Stone in 1971 said the destruction of Lee’s collection took place “in the house he used to have...” (emphasis added).  That would explain why Lee had no books from the “golden age,” which would have been worth a fortune, even in 1971 – a time when you could still find Amazing Fantasy 15 for a few dollars (or even a few cents, if you found the right store).  It gives no credence at all, however, to the notion that Lee – who still had an office at Marvel in 2002 -- couldn’t possibly have had any books on hand from the 1960s and 70s, for reference or for any other reason.

That doesn’t stop the detractors, who say that Stan Lee must have faked a collection to cash in.  But the facts just don’t support the notion of a “money grab.”  This was before the MCU movies, and Stan Lee was not yet a household name.  The standards of the old school comics collecting market in 2002 meant that Stan’s copy of Amazing Fantasy 15 sold for only one-fifth of what a higher-graded copy had sold for.   And Stan’s share of that after commissions was approximately what Stan made under his Marvel contract in a single day.  Yet the conspiracy theorist collectors insist that others believe Stan must have been willing to risk ruining his reputation and even committing fraud, for that money.  They further insist you must also believe that Lee was willing to do so in just about the stupidest and riskiest and least rewarding manner.

The books that Stan had to offer were not what a “collector” would accumulate if he or she were saving them for eventual resale.   They were, instead, copies like what a professional might have that were kept around for reference or just because they accumulated in the natural course of the business of making and publishing comics. 

Nearly all the books were in lower grades, and the only titles he had in complete sets were the short run series “The Silver Surfer”, “Not Brand Ecch” and “Bible Tales for Young Folk”.  (The handful of “Bible Tales” books were the only ones Stan had which were dated prior to 1960).  

There were only two early Avengers books, one X-Men book and about 25 Spider-man books.  By contrast there were a little over 50 copies each of “Millie the Model” and “Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos.”

Some books were not just low grade but even incomplete and had very distinctive defects and markings, or even panels cut out of the cover.   Why would anyone buy second hand books like that to sell as his own, when it would be easy, less risky, and far more rewarding financially, to accumulate nice, complete sets of all the key titles in about very fine condition.  Silver age Marvels in that condition are numerous and look, essentially, the same.  Unlike low grade books with defects that are unique and highly identifiable, and would carry a much higher risk of being "outed" by a prior owner.  (chances are very slight that anyone would spot a “fine” copy of a book as one they used to own. But they would instantly recognize a low grade “Strange Tales” with a panel they had personally cut from the cover).  

Finding really nice copies of all Marvel silver age books is not, and never was, difficult to do.  In fact, Silver Age marvel keys in nice condition are still so easy for any good dealer to uncover that "fake finding" such a collection could be achieved on a daily basis. 

So, It makes no sense at all that Lee would seek out low grade copies.  Just as it makes no sense that Lee would neglect to buy easily obtainable copies of highly collected titles like Spider-man, and instead put more attention and money into buying and faking ownership of nicer copies of “Millie the Model”, “Not Brand Ecch” and even more obscure titles like “Our Love” and “My Love” (He gave Heritage about twice as many copies of “My Love” as he did copies of Avengers, X-Men, Hulk and Daredevil, combined) 

So why do some collectors leap into any online discussion of Lee’s file copies to denigrate them or accuse them of being “fake”?   Well, as pointed out, some collectors simply don't like the idea of creator-owned books having any value beyond their condition.  While we should assume most collectors come by their opinions honestly and rationally, some may be seen as veering into the irrational, or even the downright silly. Some collectors believe the only true “stars” in their hobby can be collectors such as themselves and that “pedigrees”, therefore, can only be books from the collection of a true collector.  Others are, simply, offended by the use of the term “file copy” which they believe should be reserved for unread copies, kept on file, by the publisher.  Some old school collectors traditionally valued condition above all else and believed that anything not in high grade copy was for “readers” only, not for “collecting,” and, above all, not for “investment.” 

Most of those old school collectors will be honest about Lee’s books and say they believe the books were genuinely Stan’s, but they just don’t want them.   Only a very few take it to the absurd extreme, but they are very vocal and very insistent.  Any mention of the “Stan Lee file copies” will bring them out to insist the books have little or no added value.  Depending on how people do or not respond, they will veer between insisting the books aren’t “real” and insisting that even if the books are real they still don’t have added value.   Which argument you get depends on how much you believe they are real.  They will insist that Lee never saved any books, and if you don’t believe that they will pivot to saying Lee did save books but they were all destroyed.   If you point out that it would seem only his golden age books were destroyed, they’ll go back to saying he never collected anything.   Basically, they don’t mind embracing contradictions and don’t care which argument you believe, so long as you believe any one of them and – most importantly – you agree the books have no added value.

Saving books for reference or just having them accumulate in the office or on shelves after publication is not the same as "collecting" books and saving them with the idea they will be worth a lot of money some day.  It's always been clear that when fans ask Stan about "collecting" books, that is what they mean, and it’s clear that Stan understands what they are saying, and responds accordingly. 

William Gaines is the only comic related person I know of who did both those things -- kept copies for reference and/or files while at the same time carefully wrapping and preserving pristine copies.   Bill Gaines did, therefore, "collect" comic books while Stan Lee (and apparently every other creator until recently), did not.  

If, in the future, some collectibles dealer who had sidled up to Stan in his later years somehow “discovers” that Stan had, in fact, complete sets of all the Marvel books with multiple copies of the keys in high grade condition, then any sensible person should be inclined to think some chicanery may be involved.  But the idea that in 2002 Stan risked his reputation, and even, theoretically, his freedom, to buy and resell a few hundred low grade books as his own, and somehow couldn’t do that with any degree of intelligence or planning?   It just doesn’t wash. 

Edited by bluechip
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JollyComics

JollyComics

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1 hour ago, bluechip said:

Reading this caused me to revisit a recent thread on this topic and discover an old one, which spurred me to revisit one of my comments:

 

Stan Lee worked for Marvel between the time he was hired in December of 1940 and the 1970s, when he scaled back his writing and editing chores to be the publisher and focus on other media.  In that time, he wrote and/or edited literally thousands of comicbooks.  But, when Heritage acquired Stan Lee’s “file copies” for auctions in 2002 and 2003, he had only a few hundred books for them. 

Stan said at the time the books were the only copies he’d kept “all these years.”  Stan has said in other interviews that he “never really collected” the comics he made, and wished he’d had the foresight to collect copies for later resale, because they increased so much in value.

According to a friend of Lee’s, who was quoted in a Rolling Stone article in 1971. Stan had initially kept a copy of “every book he’d worked on” -- but they were all destroyed years earlier, by a leak in the wall.   It makes sense to think that as a young man he might have routinely saved each book (or that his wife did).   And it makes sense that the destruction of all those books might have caused Lee (or his wife) to give up on saving a copy of every book.   It makes even more sense when you consider that during the 1950s Lee became disillusioned with his work in comics, and had almost quit prior to creating the Fantastic Four in 1961, which led to much unexpected, and unprecedented, success. 

While all that makes sense, some old school collectors have seized on Lee’s comments that he “didn’t collect” comics (and/or the Rolling Stone report that Lee’s collection was destroyed) to assert that Stan Lee must not have had any copies to give to Heritage in 2002.   And that, therefore, Lee must have “faked” a collection in order to “cash in”.

Coincidentally, the people who make that assertion also happen to be the same people who’ve made it clear they don’t like the notion that creator-owned copies should have any added value.   But let’s consider their assertions, anyway.

The person quoted in the Rolling Stone in 1971 said the destruction of Lee’s collection took place “in the house he used to have...” (emphasis added).  That would explain why Lee had no books from the “golden age,” which would have been worth a fortune, even in 1971 – a time when you could still find Amazing Fantasy 15 for a few dollars (or even a few cents, if you found the right store).  It gives no credence at all, however, to the notion that Lee – who still had an office at Marvel in 2002 -- couldn’t possibly have had any books on hand from the 1960s and 70s, for reference or for any other reason.

That doesn’t stop the detractors, who say that Stan Lee must have faked a collection to cash in.  But the facts just don’t support the notion of a “money grab.”  This was before the MCU movies, and Stan Lee was not yet a household name.  The standards of the old school comics collecting market in 2002 meant that Stan’s copy of Amazing Fantasy 15 sold for only one-fifth of what a higher-graded copy had sold for.   And Stan’s share of that after commissions was approximately what Stan made under his Marvel contract in a single day.  Yet the conspiracy theorist collectors insist that others believe Stan must have been willing to risk ruining his reputation and even committing fraud, for that money.  They further insist you must also believe that Lee was willing to do so in just about the stupidest and riskiest and least rewarding manner.

The books that Stan had to offer were not what a “collector” would accumulate if he or she were saving them for eventual resale.   They were, instead, copies like what a professional might have that were kept around for reference or just because they accumulated in the natural course of the business of making and publishing comics. 

Nearly all the books were in lower grades, and the only titles he had in complete sets were the short run series “The Silver Surfer”, “Not Brand Ecch” and “Bible Tales for Young Folk”.  (The handful of “Bible Tales” books were the only ones Stan had which were dated prior to 1960).  

There were only two early Avengers books, one X-Men book and about 25 Spider-man books.  By contrast there were a little over 50 copies each of “Millie the Model” and “Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos.”

Some books were not just low grade but even incomplete and had very distinctive defects and markings, or even panels cut out of the cover.   Why would anyone buy second hand books like that to sell as his own, when it would be easy, less risky, and far more rewarding financially, to accumulate nice, complete sets of all the key titles in about very fine condition.  Silver age Marvels in that condition are numerous and look, essentially, the same.  Unlike low grade books with defects that are unique and highly identifiable, and would carry a much higher risk of being "outed" by a prior owner.  (chances are very slight that anyone would spot a “fine” copy of a book as one they used to own. But they would instantly recognize a low grade “Strange Tales” with a panel they had personally cut from the cover).  

Finding really nice copies of all Marvel silver age books is not, and never was, difficult to do.  In fact, Silver Age marvel keys in nice condition are still so easy for any good dealer to uncover that "fake finding" such a collection could be achieved on a daily basis. 

So, It makes no sense at all that Lee would seek out low grade copies.  Just as it makes no sense that Lee would neglect to buy easily obtainable copies of highly collected titles like Spider-man, and instead put more attention and money into buying and faking ownership of nicer copies of “Millie the Model”, “Not Brand Ecch” and even more obscure titles like “Our Love” and “My Love” (He gave Heritage about twice as many copies of “My Love” as he did copies of Avengers, X-Men, Hulk and Daredevil, combined) 

So why do some collectors leap into any online discussion of Lee’s file copies to denigrate them or accuse them of being “fake”?   Well, as pointed out, some collectors simply don't like the idea of creator-owned books having any value beyond their condition.  While we should assume most collectors come by their opinions honestly and rationally, some may be seen as veering into the irrational, or even the downright silly. Some collectors believe the only true “stars” in their hobby can be collectors such as themselves and that “pedigrees”, therefore, can only be books from the collection of a true collector.  Others are, simply, offended by the use of the term “file copy” which they believe should be reserved for unread copies, kept on file, by the publisher.  Some old school collectors traditionally valued condition above all else and believed that anything not in high grade copy was for “readers” only, not for “collecting,” and, above all, not for “investment.” 

Most of those old school collectors will be honest about Lee’s books and say they believe the books were genuinely Stan’s, but they just don’t want them.   Only a very few take it to the absurd extreme, but they are very vocal and very insistent.  Any mention of the “Stan Lee file copies” will bring them out to insist the books have little or no added value.  Depending on how people do or not respond, they will veer between insisting the books aren’t “real” and insisting that even if the books are real they still don’t have added value.   Which argument you get depends on how much you believe they are real.  They will insist that Lee never saved any books, and if you don’t believe that they will pivot to saying Lee did save books but they were all destroyed.   If you point out that it would seem only his golden age books were destroyed, they’ll go back to saying he never collected anything.   Basically, they don’t mind embracing contradictions and don’t care which argument you believe, so long as you believe any one of them and – most importantly – you agree the books have no added value.

Saving books for reference or just having them accumulate in the office or on shelves after publication is not the same as "collecting" books and saving them with the idea they will be worth a lot of money some day.  It's always been clear that when fans ask Stan about "collecting" books, that is what they mean, and it’s clear that Stan understands what they are saying, and responds accordingly. 

William Gaines is the only comic related person I know of who did both those things -- kept copies for reference and/or files while at the same time carefully wrapping and preserving pristine copies.   Bill Gaines did, therefore, "collect" comic books while Stan Lee (and apparently every other creator until recently), did not.  

If, in the future, some collectibles dealer who had sidled up to Stan in his later years somehow “discovers” that Stan had, in fact, complete sets of all the Marvel books with multiple copies of the keys in high grade condition, then any sensible person should be inclined to think some chicanery may be involved.  But the idea that in 2002 Stan risked his reputation, and even, theoretically, his freedom, to buy and resell a few hundred low grade books as his own, and somehow couldn’t do that with any degree of intelligence or planning?   It just doesn’t wash. 

Interesting.

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