POLL: When did the Bronze Age begin?

[PovertyRow]

So before I go on (this does get windy as you said)...do we not agree on this?

 

You are gonna HATE this but - nope. I do not agree on this. (Oh gawd here we go again!)

 

Maybe I was too glib in mentioning Desi in the same thought...

 

Well - to follow Lucy with Desi - errr - what did you expect???!!!

 

I think we agree that it is a given that Action #1 STARTED the Golden Age, right?

 

Got no problem wiuth that - except I sold MY Action 1 many years ago and still kick myself!

 

It boosted the fledgling "comic book industry" into a money-making, genre-originating,

 

OK - lettuce pause right here because you are basically saying what I am saying. It WAS a "comic book industry" and, as such, is deserving of a Wave or an Age. And some folks have broken it out and called it Platinum - and I agree - it IS an age in the comic book industry!

 

into a money-making, genre-originating, Wave of Super-heroes that was copied and expanded upon furiously for 5 years, and became the model event for the Silver Age when the heroes returned, and the Bronze Age (remember the Bronze Age?--that's how we got started on this discussion), whenever it was.

 

But please remember - I do not say the Bronze Age started with "superheroes" - it started with anti-heroes. Conan, Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider, Man-Thing, Swamp Thing. Sure there were things like Marvel Team-Up, but these were just continuations of the Silver Age and really offered nothing new. But Ghost, Man-Thing, Swamp thing (OK - both Swamp and Man were based on Heap but that was decades ago - maybe a GA push into BA) Werewolf - they brought a tough and gritty thing to comics that had NOT been seen in the SA - which is why I refer to them as anti-heroes. Even AS 129 with Punisher in 1974 has its roots here.

 

You seem to be saying that the few 'prototype' comics in the thirties actually constitute an Age of their own.

 

No. I even modified an ABBA song to make my point. Bound panel books is what the Plat Age was. Be it Mutt and Jeff, Bringing Up Father - whatever - panels of contiguous stories bound into a volume. THAT is what comic books are (and why we are called by some "panelologists").

 

So before I go on (this does get windy as you said)...do we not agree on this? And I hope it makes sense, I kept doubling back on myself and rewriting and patching.....

 

Yes, it DOES get windy but this is the essence of the boards. But I have to say no - we are still apart in this topic. Does not make you evil. Does not make me evil. It DOES make me right and you wrong but that is another thing! (yes, that was a joke!)

 

 

[Zonker]

But I really don't have any problem accepting New Fun, Detective 1-26 and other comic books that featured NEW material (i.e. not strip reprints) as being part of the Golden Age.

 

Problem here is then what book would start the Golden Age?

 

Y'know if we accept New Fun, Detective 1-26 as being part of a Golden Age that began with the later Action 1, then we can also say GSXM #1 started a Bronze Age that included the earlier Conan #1, GL/GA, etc., and Arch can then lock this thread. We're done!

 

Cheers,

Z.

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

No that's not what I'm saying at all Zonk...

 

I'm saying that the new material comics don't really fit into the Platinum format of strip reprints, nor are they truly Golden Age books if you accept Action 1 as the first GA comic... they are more like pre-GA or GA prototype books. Even Overstreet seems confused about this as Detective 1 is listed as a Golden Age book as it is listed in the top 100 GA books...

 

1938 Action 1 comes out - industry is revolutionized, comics material blooms, scores of superman copycats appear.

 

1956 Showcase 4 comes out - reaction is positive enough that DC makes more heroes which leads other companies to start doing superheroes again. 5 years later Marvel publishes FF1 and enters the Silver Age.

 

1970 GL/GA76 and Conan1 - tone of superhero comics changes to darker themes, supporting characters are killed off more frequently (starting with Gwen)shift of focus away from characters to creators, artistic blossoming as the new fan/artists have their own agendas and they want to introduce more adult themes into the work and explore other genres - in most cases within the superhero books themselves. New types of heroes are introduced successfully by Marvel - most are either brooding loners (like Conan) or supernatural characters. Warlock, Son of Satan, Man-Thing, Luke Cage, Ghost Rider, The Cat, The Defenders, a revamped Captain Marvel, Punisher, Wolverine, Iron Fist, New X-Men, Defenders, Champions and on into the 1980's and they begin to mass produce reprints of the silver age comics.... Over at DC, relevance and realism invade the Batman and Superman titles (as well as Flash, Aquaman, etc.) and the fantastic elements of DC heroes are downplayed in favor of more real-world scenarios...changes to Wonder Woman (for about two years)..... Swamp Thing and The Shadow arrive... Manhunter in Detective... Warlord... scores of Golden Age books are reprinted... Legion is revamped using the 70's model... Firestorm, Arak, JSA revival, Huntress, Power Girl. Decline of the mainstream outlets rise of the Comic Book specialty shop and the direct market. Experimentation with format (52 pages, Giant Size, 100 pagers, treasury size, book collections, paperback collections, digests).

 

Kev

[Zonker]

Peace, Kev!

 

I really like the concept of a rolling entry into an Age, and had previously tried to steer the other thread in that very direction.

 

Cheers,

Z.

[Aman619]

I think I've shot my load on this topic POV, but I didnt want to leave you hanging for a reply. But---if you are right and I am wrong, then you ARE evil and that makes you wrong, too! Third base!

 

Ahhh, its getting too windy in here...whos passing all that wind?

[dblanchard-migration]

Zonker wrote:

 

>> Y'know if we accept New Fun, Detective 1-26 as being part of a Golden Age that began with the later Action 1, then we can also say GSXM #1 started a Bronze Age that included the earlier Conan #1, GL/GA, etc., and Arch can then lock this thread. We're done! <<

 

 

I was off in the real world at a conference earlier this week, and after reading through all the various Platinum Age diversions, I found this recent comment from Z -- which I endorse wholeheartedly. It's got just enough twisted logic to satisfy everybody!

 

Well done, Z!

 

Dave Blanchard

[drbanner]

It's got just enough twisted logic to satisfy everybody!

 

Not so fast my friend! (heads off to start the popcorn)

[PovertyRow]

I think I've shot my load on this topic POV,

 

OK.

[FlyingDonut]

The Bronze Age began Monday, March 2, 1970, at approximately 6:43 PM Eastern time.

[vic6string]

ah, but do you know where?

[FlyingDonut]

In a small diner in downtown Parsippany, New Jersey. It was started by a traveling shoe salesman and a waitress.

[aardvark88]

I was there. Saw the salesman have Wonderbread toast at the diner. Asked the waitress to bring him a rancid, stick of butter.

[FlyingDonut]

He said to her "sweetheart! I've got an idea! A gritty anti-hero just might be the ticket for these troubled times."

 

And she responded "not yet, my friend. America's not ready for an anti-hero yet. Why don't you look at an already published source. Those Conan books I've seen - they've got those nice Frazetta covers. How about them?"

 

"Sweetheart," he said, "that's the ticket! Now pass me that rancid butter and get me Marvel!"

[PovertyRow]

The Bronze Age began Monday, March 2, 1970, at approximately 6:43 PM Eastern time.

 

Now this 6:43PM Eastern Time troubles me. If it was 6:43 AM I may buy into it - but that PM? Nahhh - think you made this up! How many distributors ship to the East Coast (where most distributors are) at 6:43PM?

 

Sheesh!

[drbanner]

Exactly Pov! Donut's motives are obvious to all but the most neophyte posters - he's sitting on a humongous stack of books published at 9:37 am and he doesn't want them classified as "Bronze", as we all know the Bronze market is crashing and his kids' college fund would be in ruin if the Bronze age started before 9:30. It's all about the greenbacks people, or haven't you been listening to JC (and how could you not?!?)?

[PovertyRow]

Donut's motives are obvious to all but the most neophyte posters

 

Indeed, the transparency of FD's post gives me grave concern. How the once high flying have fallen.

 

I....I cannot continue. It is too sad.

[underthebigw]

Man, I've been resisting the temptation to even read this latest thread on the subject. But now I'm hooked and feel the need to respond. Hopefully, I;m not repeating any comments I haven't read yet.

 

 

Dave, your pointing to the failure of many of DC's early 70's, clealy BA, versions of DC's characters points the company's failure to keep pace and thrive in what was clearly a distinct period bfrom the SA. It was the bronze age, and what I believe were older readers than any previous point in comic history that supported titles that were story and characterization driven, while (with a few notable creative teams excepted) DC' titles continued to be the same somewhat unidimensional heroes that lacked the same degree of development or ambiguity. The same formula that worked in the SA did not in the BA. Still, a run like the David V. Reed/Ernie Chua Bats issues had more in comon with the O'neill/Adams issues than with those from the SA. Just because DC largely failed at what was popular during the BA doesn't mean the period didn't exist.

 

To those who contend that the term BA was in the service of derision, my impression at the time was that it was instead an attempt during the early 80's to justify collecting 70's books without being dismisses by GA & SA collectors.

[ist102951]

I actually think it depends on the title - although most of us agree with Showcase #4 (Flash) as the beginning of Silver Age, the Bronze age is not that well defined.

My favorite comic is Wonder Woman and I can see Silver Age Wonder Woman ending with #176 and the Bronze Age starting with #177 (the first one without her powers). Wonder Woman Bronze age ends with 286 and then 287 begins modern age (1981). I use the comic itself to separate the ages. Silver Age Wonder Woman can probably start at #105.

So here's the brakedown

Golden Age - 1 - 104

Silver Age 105 - 176

Bronze Age - 177 - 286

Copper Age 287 - 329, (vol II) 1 - 100

Modern (vol II) 101 - 226