Saving the Hobby - This is the Answer

[Mushroom]

Sorry to be so "anal retentive" but Flash numbering was a continuation of Flash Comics not All Flash.

 

On the other hand I do agree with your views around losing kids and you lose the hobby. I love some of the art in modern books (Kevin Smith's Green Arrow) but my major beef is that my wife doesn't like me giving my boys modern books because in nearly every single title "women" are being portrayed as large breasted, spandex clad (or no cladding) sex goddesses. She doesn't want her boys to have a warped view of the female population.

 

In my house my wife rules the roost.

[doyle033]

God bless your wife!!!

(can I have the spandex and no clad books that are left over though... Please?)

[Mushroom]

I said she wouldn't let my boys read them!!!!!!! I keep them in brown paper bags and store them in the toilet. I doubt that they will ever slab as NM.

[PovertyRow]

Heheh, well....the middle fingers aren't exactly pointed at anyone in particular

 

I don't know, Rick. I keep walking back and forth in front of my monitor and the fingers keep following me!!! I feel like I am on a cover of my own pre-code horror book. The FINGERS!!! They're ALIVE!!!!! ::choke:: ::gasp::

[idle-migration]

those healthy women are the only things attracting young kids to the comics. look at lara croft. before her, shooters and adventures were first person perspective because you were a marine, or some beefcake guy.

 

lara made 3rd person popular because, quite frankly, people want to see her butt shake.

 

the same in comics. people don't want to look at women endowed like surf boards. to be honest, the way most artists in this industry draw their characters, you'd be hard pressed to discern a male from a flat chested female. mike allred, jeff smith and johnen vasquez are the only people I can think off the top of my head that can pull it off.

 

I could start a rant about the anorexic women that are portrayed as the ultimate figures on TV and other media, but hollywood, game designers and comic artists know that men (and boys) like healthy figures.

 

the comics are supposed to be fantasy. it's the job of the parents to clarify that to the kids. not just for the sake of breasts, but for everything. you don't want your kids trying to fly, or turn into super villians or anything like that.

 

let the children out once in a while and the ones who are capable of their own thought will see that people are all shapes and sizes. of course if you live in hollywood, your perception might be skewed to the larger end of the scale, but overall it comes down to real life education.

 

try it.

 

what was the topic here??

[joe_collector]

>>the comics are supposed to be fantasy. it's the job of the parents to clarify that to the kids. not just for the sake of breasts, but for everything. you don't want your kids trying to fly, or turn into super villians or anything like that.

 

Sure, but if you have kids, then you already know it's far easier just to not buy the stuff that you find offensive or demeaning to women, minorities and alternative religions.

 

That's the point really.

[doyle033]

wow

did you just say "not just for the sake of breasts"

I love it!!!

almost like they are detachable and they are there own seperate entitties ()

Utopia!!!!

[PovertyRow]

let the children out once in a while and the ones who are capable of their own thought will see that people are all shapes and sizes. of course if you live in hollywood, your perception might be skewed to the larger end of the scale, but overall it comes down to real life education.

 

Definitely agree - know a married couple who have done their best to shiueld their children (girl 7 boy 9) from anything and everything. Even movies like ANTS are deemed too violent for them to see. Have talked to them many times to no avail. I feel sorry for those children when they actually see their first news telecasts or even moderately violent programmer. Raising kids in a thorn and bee sting world and making them think it is milk and honey is a disservice. (this probably belongs in Water Cooler - sorry - have taken self-lumps for replying in the comics board.)

[Mushroom]

Hey Kiwi boy,

 

Chill........You obviously must have been reading one of those books before replying because your testosterone is way out of control. Remember different strokes for different folks. I am starting to get concerned when you think wafer thin waists, triple D breasts and bigger muscles than schwarzenegger is healthy.

 

My boys are 4 and 6. I don't think they are ready for your so called real life education. My wife wants them to just be boys. She wants them to think they can fly just like superman or climb walls just like spiderman. That is what the attraction of superheroes should be to a child.

 

I think you are the one in need of a dose of reality.

 

You must be a huge Wizard fan.

[doyle033]

I can see both sides here. And while I agree that there is nothing wrong with some reality in a childs everyday life, I think that we have to remember that kids are gonna get that "reality" whether parents want them to or not. So if comics have a healthy dose of hooters to make ratings among pubescent boys(12 or so years)... great. But even 4 and 6 year olds (I am a dad to a 4 year old so I am a bit qualified here) will decide for themselves what they care for and what they dont. they have all of the same mental workings as a big person only smaller. My point is that it surely does not matter how big elektras hooters become or how nude dawn gets, little boys are still going to WANT to read supes and spidey regardless, not look at girls (as my son puts it). remember, they still arent on to the whole chick thing yet. And what they like is still up to them.

[joe_collector]

Do any of you guys actually have kids aged 1-5 right now? I used to talk out of my butt about kids and parent's responsibilities and not sheltering them....

 

And then I had one and realized I knew nothing from whence I spoke.

 

Nothing, nada, zippo.

 

Trust me, having a little "blank slate" running around, swearing when you swear, imitating your every action, becoming angry or sad or happy depending on the visuals presented, is a real eye-opener and is nothing you can relate to second-hand.

 

I had to (as Yoda said) unlearn what I had learned, and truly understand the activity of socialization, shifting my own behavior and views 180-degrees as a result.

[PovertyRow]

Do any of you guys actually have kids aged 1-5 right now?

 

Not sure why you are addressing me - specified ages 7 and 9.

 

Trust me, having a little "blank slate" running around, swearing when you swear, imitating your every action, becoming angry or sad or happy depending on the visuals presented, is a real eye-opener and is nothing you can relate to second-hand.

 

If you swear in front of your "blank slates" or make undesireable actions for them to imitate - not sure why the problem extends beyond the example you set?

 

had to (as Yoda said) unlearn what I had learned, and truly understand the activity of socialization, shifting my own behavior and views 180-degrees as a result.

 

A good thing.

 

But I see absolutely no reason why a child should not be exposed to some things they will most definitely be exposed to in not too many years. The young age is the time to discuss, explain, get their views etc etc.

[Mushroom]

Sorry............they don't have the same workings as adults. Children require guidance, role models, education etc etc etc. My wife's view of education is not for her boys to think that Elektra's breasts and body shape are normal. To be honest my house is decidedly laid back in most things but when it comes to perpetuating male chauvinism in the way women are portrayed in comic books the little lady draws the line.

[joe_collector]

Nevermind, it's obvious the point eludes you, since you're turning my innocent comment into some "he swears like a drunken sailor and beats up the dog" kind of insult.

 

P.S. I think I saw your kid out hot-wiring cars this afternoon.

[joe_collector]

>>But I see absolutely no reason why a child should not be exposed to some things they will most definitely be exposed to in not too many years. The young age is the time to discuss, explain, get their views etc etc.

 

Sure, but how far you go is up to the parent. By some of the examples illustrated on here, showing pics of child porn, pet mutilation and murder would be cool, since "they're gonna see it anyway".

 

And if you think I'm joking, you obviously haven't met too many women who feel gratuitously displaying busty, unrealistic female forms is right up there with the above societal ills.

[PovertyRow]

had to (as Yoda said) unlearn what I had learned, and truly understand the activity of socialization, shifting my own behavior and views 180-degrees as a result.

 

1) I added something but too late - you already replied -look back.

 

2) don't have kids of my own. Have been a Big Brother to some over the years. Hopefully has given me a little insight. Not the same as having them around 7/24 but not the same as never having any.

 

3) remember my own childhood very vividly - remember what I wanted and what I got. Probably the single greatest educator if you can remember that.

[joe_collector]

This isn't meant as an insult, but trust me on this, you do not have a clue.

 

I felt EXACTLY the same way as you did, and then having a little cherub running around the house 24-7 really opened my eyes and made me think of a bible quote:

 

Once I was blind, but now I can see.

 

It's kind of like sex, you can read all the books, talk to others, watch films, etc., but when it happens, it's nothing like you expected.

[doyle033]

they don't have the same workings as adults. Children require guidance, role models, education etc etc etc.

Sounds just like you and I and everyone else. We all need guidance, role models, education, etc. Its just that at a certain age we forget that we need it. I understand the whole sexism thing and think it is very admirable. My point is that regardless of how tightly or loosely this was enforced, fact is that the would still probably ignore the hot babe comics and go for spidey anyhow. dont forget, to a 4 year old, girls still have cooties. And it sounds like you are bringing them up to have very healthy and decent attitudes toward female objectivity in general, I would not imply otherwise. But some of that attitude will have to flow naturally from them as well in the future. And without the experience in making the right choices that they might have had (ie all of the choices were made for them) Then the ability to choose becomes more evasive.

BTW JoeC.. I got you on that language thing. my boy spoke like yul brenner at a young age and imitated EVERYTHING. so unless I wanted to be embarrased at the holidays with a gasp of profanity I learned quickly that Imitation is NOT the sincerest form of flattery.

[PovertyRow]

And if you think I'm joking, you obviously haven't met too many women who feel gratuitously displaying busty, unrealistic female forms is right up there with the above societal ills.

 

Was born in 1950 in Boston. Have many memories of many talks, arguments, diatribes, chats and discussions.

[PovertyRow]

This isn't meant as an insult, but trust me on this, you do not have a clue.

 

Actually, I do take it as an insult. And I do have a clue. And you do too. Were you brought up the way you say children should be, or were you given more free rein?