Does CGC offer any signature verification for already signed books? 0

[Hollywood1892]

On 2/7/2019 at 8:57 PM, serling1978 said:

Sorry if this is an obvious question, wondering if a book is already signed and CGC didn't witness it do they have any kind of service to verify the sig? I've got an Avengers 1 signed by Stan that came with a certificate from the dealer that the signature was witnessed, but obviously I could take that card and put it with any Avengers 1 that had Stan's name written on it. I see on Pawn Stars all the time how an expert swings on by and verifies celebrity sigs in about 30 seconds (I'm saying this tongue in cheek, "live ink" seems to be his main criteria) so can CGC also verify?

I'm not sure if anyone said this

But CGC yellow series is probably the best sig series known to man, before CGC gives their yellow stamp of approval they have a authenticated witness...so it can never come into question

[Hollywood1892]

15 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

And that's the inherent problem with today's "jack of all trades" authentication companies. Companies that issue COAs for tens of thousands of different signatures most of which are based on comparing exemplars. Some of which are the very same exemplars that forgers, both inept and extremely gifted are using to craft their forgeries.

Decades ago,  specialists had their opinions sought. There are experts in one, two, three, etc. signatures. They've spent a lifetime studying those particular signatures and can readily identify a signature from every phase of a signor's lifetime without having to compare examples. And they can do it from the vibe of the piece. Pick up on these very little things that are atypical. Frank Caiazzo for beatles signatures is one example. A COA from Frank for Beatles signatures trumps anything that JSA or PSA can give you and multiplies the value immensely because everyone knows that Frank is the ultimately authority for that. 

Jack of all trades, masters of few. That's the companies that will authenticate anything you send them based on exemplars, even if they only have one! Do you know that JSA actually authenticated a Cheetah autograph? Yes. The monkey from the Tarzan flicks in the 30s. He based his COA on 1 exemplar and later, it was found that the item that "Cheetah" signed, his signature being a few random squiggles, much like the signatures of Johnny Depp and Al Pacino, was signed on a reprint photo printed a decade or more after the original Cheetah died.

Going to authenticators who rely on exemplars for their authentications = going to a general practitioner for brain surgery.

I have to agree with you here 100%

[James J Johnson]

14 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I'm not sure if anyone said this

But CGC yellow series is probably the best sig series known to man, before CGC gives their yellow stamp of approval they have a authenticated witness...so it can never come into question

Absolutely true. Verification trumps authentication. Verifiably witnessed is fact, not opinion. All unwitnessed authentication involves opinion. Even with pieces of supposedly iron clad provenance, as anyone who ever bought memorabilia originating from the infamous Barry Halper collection later learned to their dismay.

[Hollywood1892]

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

Absolutely true. Verification trumps authentication. Verifiably witnessed is fact, not opinion. All unwitnessed authentication involves opinion. Even with pieces of supposedly iron clad provenance, as anyone who ever bought memorabilia originating from the infamous Barry Halper collection later learned to their dismay.

I just read about Barry Halper....shocking and in my opinion as soon as one thing comes into question, everything comes into question 

[kav]

21 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I just read about Barry Halper....shocking and in my opinion as soon as one thing comes into question, everything comes into question 

what's your question?

[James J Johnson]

26 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I just read about Barry Halper....shocking and in my opinion as soon as one thing comes into question, everything comes into question 

The Halper collection is the 1 inch tip of the 2 mile thick iceberg under the surface. You have no idea just how deep and wide the fraud rabbit hole goes to accommodate all the garbage and all the mechanics and enablers in the sportscard and sports memorabilia biz. People with gripes about spine realignment pressing and CGC having missed some trimmed books once about 15 years ago don't realize just how little they have to complain about by comparison! There's a huge difference between a few honest mistakes or questionable issues during a growing process than deliberate fraud!!

Edited May 3, 2020 by James J Johnson