MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[chrisco37]

I had tickets to go see it on Saturday (4pm show).  Ran some errands in the morning and afternoon and then decided I didn't want to spend 2.5 hours in the theater.   Cancelled my tix and got a refund.  I'm sure I would have watched it that day if it had been available streaming (like BW).   Might try and catch it next weekend or the following.  2.5 hours is just too long.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

[Bosco685]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:33 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Eh, I don't really. That's in your head. I'm somehow Mr. Anti-DC in your world. That's fine. I do believe I brought up the Man of Steel low RT score in the past to show that combined with its relatively lower box office take (compared to the billions comic book movies were making around that time), it made the film a minor disappointment in the eyes of many, including the studio. Yes, MOS was a minor disappointment, but not big enough to not greenlight a sequel featuring Batman. And yes, Man of Steel didn't sit well with a lot of people, to the point that Zack Snyder had to defend the movie at times, like the fact that his SUperman was a darker version of the character.

Now, if Man of Steel had broken a billion dollars and got a very high positive fan response (it sits now at 75%), the RT score wouldn't have mattered as much. But it didn't do those things, so the RT score compounded that disappointment. This example even shows how the RT score has dominion over the way not only we can make decisions, but how studios can make decisions. 

You are one of the most frickle commenters on here, yet proclaim anything you post has been thoroughly researched. Meanwhile...

And the 75% Audience Score on a 2013 film is still taking in comments from contributors for many years. That was not the point-in-time Audience Score Mister 'thoroughly researched'. Including - wait for it - an 'A-' CinemaScore.

 

 

[@therealsilvermane]

To reiterate a previous post, what makes Eternals so different from other MCU films and a big reason I love the movie so much, is that I believe it's the first MCU movie to feature a higher universal theme at its core. It's kind of the first true high concept MCU film.

There have been other high concept comic book films in the past. 1989 Batman was a metaphor for duality. Bryan Singer's X-Men was a metaphor for homosexuality and its acceptance in society. Ang Lee's Hulk was a metaphor for the freedom from repression. Batman Begins had at its core the concept of fear.

Though Black Panther touched on higher concepts like racism and leadership, it wasn't really engrained into the movie's theme itself. In the end, it was still a movie about a hero overcoming the odds. As awesome as the MCU movies have been, they are still just adventure movies that exist for the hero's story and do not concern themselves with higher concepts. This was a problem for me in the beginning of the MCU but I grew to accept that for what it was. I can't say I didn't miss that from the MCU as I think that comic book movies are the perfect place for high concept metaphors.

Eternals is the first MCU film to do that. It had the universal themes of humanity, human bonds, and love at its core. This is what makes Eternals so different from other MCU films. 

[@therealsilvermane]

disclaimer: When I say "high concept" above, I don't mean the industry term meaning movies that can be explained and pitched in one sentence like Jingle All the Way. I mean a more personal definition of the term that deals with higher themes and metaphors, like 2001 a Space Odyssey.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:55 AM, Bosco685 said:

You are one of the most frickle commenters on here, yet proclaim anything you post has been thoroughly researched. Meanwhile...

And the 75% Audience Score on a 2013 film is still taking in comments from contributors for many years. That was not the point-in-time Audience Score Mister 'thoroughly researched'. Including - wait for it - an 'A-' CinemaScore.

 

 

It will never end, Bosco. Every time you educate him all he does is move the goal posts. "Oh, it didn't make a billion dollars for the DC's first movie in the new franchise despite The Avengers making $1 billion only the year prior!"

Cognitive dissonance is fundamentally problematic.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Man of Steel dealt with "high concept" before the MCU was even aware that it's a thing.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:09 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It will never end, Bosco. Every time you educate him all he does is move the goal posts. "Oh, it didn't make a billion dollars for the DC's first movie in the new franchise despite The Avengers making $1 billion only the year prior!"

Cognitive dissonance is fundamentally problematic.

When WB greenlit a new Superman movie ten years ago, they didn't say "oh if it doesn't make a billion like Avengers, Iron Man 3, or the last two Dark Knight movies just did, that's perfectly fine, we're just starting out with this thing and it's just Superman, we have lots of other characters."

No, WB wanted Man of Steel to be a massive hit. And I'm sorry, but to say that Man of Steel was a massive runaway hit or that WB wasn't the least bit disappointed with it is erroneous.

Edited November 8, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[theCapraAegagrus]

Man of Steel's reception green-lit a sequel. Dissenting narratives are pure delusion.

[Bosco685]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:20 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

When WB greenlit a new Superman studio, they didn't say "oh if it doesn't make a billion like Avengers, Iron Man 3, or the last two Dark Knight movies just did, that's perfectly fine, we're just starting out with this thing and it's just Superman, we have lots of other characters."

No, WB wanted Man of Steel to be a massive hit. And I'm sorry, but to say that Man of Steel was a massive runaway hit or that WB wasn't the least bit disappointed with it ten years ago is erroneous.

More than a few people have tried to help you understand. But those MCU shades are glued to your eyes.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:24 AM, Bosco685 said:

More than a few people have tried to help you understand. But those MCU shades are glued to your eyes.

Or maybe I've tried to help you understand but you have Disney conspiracy lenses permanently affixed to your optics.

[Bosco685]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:59 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Or maybe I've tried to help you understand but you have Disney conspiracy lenses permanently affixed to your optics.

You mean me that watches all of these films and TV shows and doesn't get fixated on having a studio bias? Yeah. 'Thoroughly researched'.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Man of Steel dealt with "high concept" before the MCU was even aware that it's a thing.

Look, Zack Snyder makes nice enough movies, but I don't think he understands how to use metaphor properly in a film. I guess Man of Steel wanted to be about "Hope" but it really wasn't. It was a glossy action film. Watchmen could have have nailed the higher themes that are part of the source material DNA's but instead we got a dumbed down glossy action film with a cool soundtrack.

[Gatsby77]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:23 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Man of Steel's reception green-lit a sequel. Dissenting narratives are pure delusion.

?

False. Man of Steel's (relative) under-performance led to them cancelling plans for Man of Steel 2 and pivoting instead to BvS - adding Batman and Wonder Woman.

June 10, 2013: (pre-release of Man of Steel later that week): Warner Bros. announces Man of Steel 2. 

June 13, 2013: Man of Steel actually comes out in the U.S.

July 20, 2013: Warner Bros. announces pivot to a BvS film, bringing Batman to the fore.

This was not the original plan, as Zack Snyder's later confirmed that Braniac was to be the original villain for the (then-scuttled) MoS 2.

[theCapraAegagrus]

There is only 1 person in the entire world that considers the MCU a litmus test for "high brow" cinema.

[Bosco685]

On 11/6/2021 at 8:28 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

If Sony and WB/DC just stopped making their own comic book movies, there would suddenly be like 45% less superhero movies "inundating" the multiplexes. Sony actually does make subpar live action comic book movies. Please Sony just hand the Spider-Keys over to Disney already. You'd spare the world a slow and painful demise and also a lot of confusion of what's in the MCU and what's not. If WB/DC would just pull the plug as well (okay, with the exception of solo Batman and Joker movies I guess) and stick to television/animation, they might stop losing money and save the dignity and IP value of their legacy characters. There's always merchandising, WB.

Problem solved. If only.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:10 AM, Gatsby77 said:

?

False. Man of Steel's (relative) under-performance led to them cancelling plans for Man of Steel 2 and pivoting instead to BvS - adding Batman and Wonder Woman.

June 10, 2013: (pre-release of Man of Steel later that week): Warner Bros. announces Man of Steel 2. 

June 13, 2013: Man of Steel actually comes out in the U.S.

July 20, 2013: Warner Bros. announces pivot to a BvS film, bringing Batman to the fore.

This was not the original plan, as Zack Snyder's later confirmed that Braniac was to be the original villain for the (then-scuttled) MoS 2.

I'm not an expert, but I have read time and again that the sequel changed once Batman's name was mentioned in a meeting.

[Bosco685]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:10 AM, Gatsby77 said:

?

False. Man of Steel's (relative) under-performance led to them cancelling plans for Man of Steel 2 and pivoting instead to BvS - adding Batman and Wonder Woman.

June 10, 2013: (pre-release of Man of Steel later that week): Warner Bros. announces Man of Steel 2. 

June 13, 2013: Man of Steel actually comes out in the U.S.

July 20, 2013: Warner Bros. announces pivot to a BvS film, bringing Batman to the fore.

This was not the original plan, as Zack Snyder's later confirmed that Braniac was to be the original villain for the (then-scuttled) MoS 2.

 

On 11/8/2021 at 11:12 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm not an expert, but I have read time and again that the sequel changed once Batman's name was mentioned in a meeting.

Charles Roven (WB/DC Producer) back in 2017 noted Man of Steel 2 was in addition to BVS. Not the latter a replacement for the former.

What's Happening With Man Of Steel 2, According To One DC Producer (11/14/2017)

Quote

This news comes to us from DC producer Charles Roven, who recently spoke to the NY Times about the DCEU, and its future. While plugging this week's release of Justice League, Roven revealed that very little has changed in the development of Man of Steel 2. There is currently no -script, but various story ideas are ruminating at the studio. In short, Superman's second solo movie isn't a priority at the moment.

 

Man of Steel 2's lack of development is a bit surprising, considering the first film started the entire DCEU. Zack Snyder created a dark and morose world for the Kryptonian hero, and shocked hardcore comic fans by having Supes kill General Zod[d] at the film's conclusion. Eventually, the plan was formulated to expand this world into a shared universe akin to the MCU, and Snyder was brought back for both Batman v Superman and Justice League.

But I guess if you make a statement with enough conviction, history gets altered over time. Probably a PR thing.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:31 AM, Bosco685 said:

Charles Roven (WB/DC Producer) back in 2017 noted Man of Steel 2 was in addition to BVS. Not the latter a replacement for the former.

What's Happening With Man Of Steel 2, According To One DC Producer (11/14/2017)

But I guess if you make a statement with enough conviction, history gets altered over time. Probably a PR thing.

It seemed to me that what would have been MoS 2 was replaced by BvS, effectively pushing MoS 2 into development hell. MoS 2 seemed like a Snyder passion project that died when he left the JL production.

All of this is irrelevant to The Eternals, though.

[Straw-Man]

i guess i'll see this eternals thing, but it is surely the first time i haven't seen an mcu release on the opening weekend.