Newbie question on foxing and graders notes 1 1

[The Lions Den]

22 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Does foxing "get worse?"

My 7.5 IH 181... has heavy foxing on the back cover...

I'm just not sure how I should feel about it...

 

I'm guessing that you may be able to slow it down by storing the book properly (which I'm sure you do). But to be honest, I'm thinking it's similar to "age spots" on old people...once it starts, it doesn't ever get better...

[fastballspecial]

It also depends on storage, climate, and area as well I think.

Most of the foxing I see in the Midwest seems to occur on the insides of the covers front and back.
I don't see as much foxing on the outside covers all the way back to SA books. I don't deal much in GA.

 

 

[The Lions Den]

On 6/23/2019 at 11:25 AM, fastballspecial said:

It also depends on storage, climate, and area as well I think.

Most of the foxing I see in the Midwest seems to occur on the insides of the covers front and back.
I don't see as much foxing on the outside covers all the way back to SA books. I don't deal much in GA.

 

 

I agree. It does seem to be more common on the interior of the cover. And climate would certainly play a role as well, since warmth and humidity would seem to contribute to the process...

[ADAMANTIUM]

7 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

On 6/23/2019 at 10:25 AM, fastballspecial said:

It also depends on storage, climate, and area as well I think.

Most of the foxing I see in the Midwest seems to occur on the insides of the covers front and back.
I don't see as much foxing on the outside covers all the way back to SA books. I don't deal much in GA.

 

 

I agree. It does seem to be more common on the interior of the cover. And climate would certainly play a role as well, since warmth and humidity would seem to contribute to the process...

... if we're still talking about my IH 181...

For the sake of conversation, I bought it from Dale Roberts... which I'm not sure where he is located or I forget, but as he's a dealer.. probably just safe to say the book is from parts unknown...

Anyway, I'd like it to remain the Same amount of foxing and not grow...

I'm in Texas ie Midwest, it's kept in a cedar closet, with a closed door and in a room with air conditioning.... but idk, 

Maybe I should think about trading up to a better copy idk

 

[The Lions Den]

35 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

... if we're still talking about my IH 181...

For the sake of conversation, I bought it from Dale Roberts... which I'm not sure where he is located or I forget, but as he's a dealer.. probably just safe to say the book is from parts unknown...

Anyway, I'd like it to remain the Same amount of foxing and not grow...

I'm in Texas ie Midwest, it's kept in a cedar closet, with a closed door and in a room with air conditioning.... but idk, 

Maybe I should think about trading up to a better copy idk

 

It's interesting to me that some books seem more prone to foxing than others. To be honest, I do remember seeing other Hulk 181's with foxing stains on the interior. This usually manifests itself along the top or bottom margin of the first and last page, and transfers to the top or bottom edge of the cover. I wonder if your copy shows the same characteristics...

In any event, given that you live in Texas, you're doing the right thing by keeping the book in a cool dry environment. IMO, as long as you store it in archival products and keep it away from heat, moisture and light, it shouldn't noticeably change for many years. Given what Hulk 181 is going for these days, upgrading would undoubtedly be a costly undertaking... 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

6 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's interesting to me that some books seem more prone to foxing than others. To be honest, I do remember seeing other Hulk 181's with foxing stains on the interior. This usually manifests itself along the top or bottom margin of the first and last page, and transfers to the top or bottom edge of the cover. I wonder if your copy shows the same characteristics...

In any event, given that you live in Texas, you're doing the right thing by keeping the book in a cool dry environment. IMO, as long as you store it in archival products and keep it away from heat, moisture and light, it shouldn't noticeably change for many years. Given what Hulk 181 is going for these days, upgrading would undoubtedly be a costly undertaking... 

 

ya i hear you... i'm really satisfied as long as the foxing doesn't get worse or value drops... just don't want "my grail" to brng me joy for years and dissapoint later  

so i appreciate the feedback  

[joeypost]

22 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's interesting to me that some books seem more prone to foxing than others. To be honest, I do remember seeing other Hulk 181's with foxing stains on the interior. This usually manifests itself along the top or bottom margin of the first and last page, and transfers to the top or bottom edge of the cover. I wonder if your copy shows the same characteristics...

In any event, given that you live in Texas, you're doing the right thing by keeping the book in a cool dry environment. IMO, as long as you store it in archival products and keep it away from heat, moisture and light, it shouldn't noticeably change for many years. Given what Hulk 181 is going for these days, upgrading would undoubtedly be a costly undertaking... 

 

I have seen plenty of copies of Hulk 181 with foxing all over the cover and interior pages. One thing I find interesting about foxing is its randomness. Years ago I used to pull books from a warehouse, that was not air conditioned, here in Central Florida. I would go through long boxes of books, and in the middle of the box would be 5 books with foxing, then 50 perfectly fine copies, then 10 copies with foxing, etc. I guess it is what's inherent in the book to begin with. This could come down to one roll of paper versus another during production, bu it is just a guess on my part. 

With regards to foxing getting worse, I have some slabs in my collection for the last 13 years that have some very light foxing that has not gotten worse with the passing of time. 

[Slappy Jones]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:10 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Can you direct me to where this is written?  Sorry to be a bother, but I'm in the middle of a big book deal that has "light foxing".
 

The only thing I've ever seen in writing would be the Overstreet grading narrative, which is included in every price guide.  I can't imagine CGC has something in writing for wide access, but if I'm wrong I'd sure love to see something like that as well.  Does such a thing exist?  Otherwise, Overstreet is probably as good as it will get...

[ADAMANTIUM]

10 minutes ago, joeypost said:

I have seen plenty of copies of Hulk 181 with foxing all over the cover and interior pages. One thing I find interesting about foxing is its randomness. Years ago I used to pull books from a warehouse, that was not air conditioned, here in Central Florida. I would go through long boxes of books, and in the middle of the box would be 5 books with foxing, then 50 perfectly fine copies, then 10 copies with foxing, etc. I guess it is what's inherent in the book to begin with. This could come down to one roll of paper versus another during production, bu it is just a guess on my part. 

With regards to foxing getting worse, I have some slabs in my collection for the last 13 years that have some very light foxing that has not gotten worse with the passing of time. 

  thanks!

[Gotham Kid]

13 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

On 6/23/2019 at 5:25 PM, fastballspecial said:

It also depends on storage, climate, and area as well I think.

Most of the foxing I see in the Midwest seems to occur on the insides of the covers front and back.
I don't see as much foxing on the outside covers all the way back to SA books. I don't deal much in GA.

 

 

I agree. It does seem to be more common on the interior of the cover. And climate would certainly play a role as well, since warmth and humidity would seem to contribute to the process...

This

[The Lions Den]

12 hours ago, Slappy Jones said:

The only thing I've ever seen in writing would be the Overstreet grading narrative, which is included in every price guide.  I can't imagine CGC has something in writing for wide access, but if I'm wrong I'd sure love to see something like that as well.  Does such a thing exist?  Otherwise, Overstreet is probably as good as it will get...

I'm going by what I've seen over the years, and what I remember from CGC's grading criteria...

[Krismusic]

my question to the pro's and expert boardies I was researching Microchamber paper I am wondering would this help with the oxidiation as I am assuming its the gassing from the books (SA) that might be contributing to the foxing?

So would Microchamber paper help? Also does CGC still use Microchamber paper in the GA/ SA books?

[Slappy Jones]

6 hours ago, Krishosein said:

my question to the pro's and expert boardies I was researching Microchamber paper I am wondering would this help with the oxidiation as I am assuming its the gassing from the books (SA) that might be contributing to the foxing?

So would Microchamber paper help? Also does CGC still use Microchamber paper in the GA/ SA books?

re: 'CGC still use...' - I believe they do; I purchased 2 slabbed books with severely damaged cases (at a huge discount) a couple years back, when I removed them from the cases, sure enough they had the microchamber paper. (of course, I'm not sure how old these were/when they were slabbed, but it would seem odd for them to stop the practice...)

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Slappy Jones
just makin' clarification

[The Lions Den]

6 hours ago, Krishosein said:

my question to the pro's and expert boardies I was researching Microchamber paper I am wondering would this help with the oxidiation as I am assuming its the gassing from the books (SA) that might be contributing to the foxing?

So would Microchamber paper help? Also does CGC still use Microchamber paper in the GA/ SA books?

Yes, as far as I know, they still use the microchamber paper. And yes, it's supposed to help remove by-products from deterioration and pollutants. There's an interesting article about microchamber paper on a website called conservationresources.com. 

In the earlier days, they used to put a sheet on the inside of the front and back cover. Now it's usually placed inside the first and last page of the comic...  

 

[Krismusic]

16 hours ago, Slappy Jones said:

re: 'CGC still use...' - I believe they do; I purchased 2 slabbed books with severely damaged cases (at a huge discount) a couple years back, when I removed them from the cases, sure enough they had the microchamber paper. (of course, I'm not sure how old these were/when they were slabbed, but it would seem odd for them to stop the practice...)

 

you can check the graded date by the Certifcation # 

[Krismusic]

15 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Yes, as far as I know, they still use the microchamber paper. And yes, it's supposed to help remove by-products from deterioration and pollutants. There's an interesting article about microchamber paper on a website called conservationresources.com. 

In the earlier days, they used to put a sheet on the inside of the front and back cover. Now it's usually placed inside the first and last page of the comic...  

 

I read some literature on the microchamber paper from supplies of the microchamber paper, but like any company in the world they would never talk about the potential or future harm that their products can cause. So I take that info with a grain of salt I kind of wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with it as I read on the other company chat boards about many saying it could cause damage after the product has expired or absorbed all the pollutants etc.. and because its concentrated in a area it could be more harmful. 

I might make a new thread and see what others think.

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Krishosein said:

I read some literature on the microchamber paper from supplies of the microchamber paper, but like any company in the world they would never talk about the potential or future harm that their products can cause. So I take that info with a grain of salt I kind of wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with it as I read on the other company chat boards about many saying it could cause damage after the product has expired or absorbed all the pollutants etc.. and because its concentrated in a area it could be more harmful. 

I might make a new thread and see what others think.

To be honest, I don't know if there are any long term negative effects; I haven't seen any with any of the books I have. And I suppose it would largely depend upon the severity of exposure to pollution and other contaminants. It's interesting to me that the other grading company doesn't use it, since the person that helped implement the use of the microchamber paper for CGC is now the head of the other grading company... 

[Krismusic]

13 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

To be honest, I don't know if there are any long term negative effects; I haven't seen any with any of the books I have. And I suppose it would largely depend upon the severity of exposure to pollution and other contaminants. It's interesting to me that the other grading company doesn't use it, since the person that helped implement the use of the microchamber paper for CGC is now the head of the other grading company... 

interesting I saw that on their forums but didn't know the head of grading is over there very interesting... 

[The Lions Den]

6 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

interesting I saw that on their forums but didn't know the head of grading is over there very interesting... 

My sense of it is that it's probably just a way of reducing costs by the other company. I believe the microchamber paper to be a useful product. To be perfectly honest, I don't go out of my way to use it, but I live in a rural area with a minimal amount of pollution...

[Slappy Jones]

11 hours ago, Krishosein said:

you can check the graded date by the Certifcation # 

thanks for the tip!  i don't have the books handy, but now i'm really curious & will check...