Snipe bidding on Ebay,your opinion? 2 2

[darkstar]

12 hours ago, 1Cool said:

If you take the legality out of the equation then sniping is the same as shill bidding.  

a swing and a miss

[Callaway29]

random coolness

[1Cool]

8 hours ago, darkstar said:

a swing and a miss

Hard to have a discussion when you give no opinions or reasons you disagree.  I don’t like shill bidding practice and I don’t like sniping.  One is a buyer trying to game the system and the other is a seller trying to game the system.  You are free to disagree.

[grebal]

Shill bidding is fraud.  It's a crime.  It involves a fake bid that bears no connection to reality, a false "buyer" not really bidding to buy - a shill is just a liar.   Shills are cheaters, liars, thieves, criminals.  Bad news.

Snipe bidding is a last minute bid.  In some cases it's placed to avoid a bidding war that the sniper thinks hopefully will result in sniper paying less if he wins. This is not a cheat or a violation of any rules or ethics (except some people don't like sniping, so it bothers those people).  The sniper might lose and walk away with nothing. The sniper might drive the price up and still end up with nothing. The sniper might win, but pay top dollar anyway because the runner-up bidder had a high bid.  And the sniper might end up with a bargain.  No cheating involved.

[bc]

  Don't see any issue with sniping - it's still a legitimate "bid" on an auction item in the allotted time frame.

Whether the winning bid comes in 6 days before the end of the auction, 6 hours before the end or 6 seconds before the end - it is still a finite amount of money that one is comfortable spending. 

Sniping is not a guarantee to win the auction - an earlier bidder could have set a high maximum that the snipe bid won't exceed.

Not sure about the rest, but there is typically a maximum dollar amount I'm comfortable spending on an auction item - sometimes that amount is already exceeded before the closing date even nears (so no sniping for me).

 

Shill bidding is a whole other issue and those people should be drawn & quartered in public.

[gotpong]

23 hours ago, 1Cool said:

If you take the legality out of the equation then sniping is the same as shill bidding.  One you are trying to get the book for as cheap as possible and the other you are trying to get as much as possible.  One is deemed wrong and the other is just the name of the game but I see them as flip sides of the same coin.  Man - I hate auctions on E-Bay.  Way too many games on either side.

Not the same at all, one has the intention of actually buying the item the other has no intention of buying the item.  One is a legit entity the other is fictitious and fraud.  One is letting the market set the price because if legit buyers bid and a sniper gets the item market has spoke the other manipulates the market, not only making fake gains in their own items but setting fake market prices for the items.

[1Cool]

7 minutes ago, grebal said:

Shill bidding is fraud.  It's a crime.  It involves a fake bid that bears no connection to reality, a false "buyer" not really bidding to buy - a shill is just a liar.   Shills are cheaters, liars, thieves, criminals.  Bad news.

Snipe bidding is a last minute bid.  In some cases it's placed to avoid a bidding war that the sniper thinks hopefully will result in sniper paying less if he wins. This is not a cheat or a violation of any rules or ethics (except some people don't like sniping, so it bothers those people).  The sniper might lose and walk away with nothing. The sniper might drive the price up and still end up with nothing. The sniper might win, but pay top dollar anyway because the runner-up bidder had a high bid.  And the sniper might end up with a bargain.  No cheating involved.

I agree shill bidding is no good but when you take the legality of it out of the equation you have a seller gaming the system in place to try to get the most he can get for an item.  I see snipe bidders as attempting to get the item for as cheap as possible by gaming the system in place and preventing people from beating their highest bid.  I’d agree one is more devious but in the end it’s one person trying to get more and one person trying to get less.  I’ll just stay away from auctions all together.

[Gaard]

There are other reasons for using sniping programs besides " attempting to get the item for as cheap as possible ".

[Ride the Tiger]

Sometimes I get upset that my highest bid was out done by a another member upping their bid by a dollar until they are finally the highest bidder. I've seen bidders do this from like 20 to 40 bucks all in 1 dollar bids. Not sure if its shill or what but that triggers my " oh yah? " bidding mentality and I  just start upping the price with my own bids. Sometimes I end up winning the item at more than I originally wanted but I always pay nonetheless. It's the way of the bay.

[WeR138]

So if I want to buy an item for as cheaply as possible (snipe bidding), I'm morally disqualified from buying the item? 

[DavidTheDavid]

Sniping is an above-board way for a buyer to achieve a preferred price. Shilling is a below-board way for a seller to achieve a preferred price. How is that a moral equivalent?

[darkstar]

11 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Hard to have a discussion when you give no opinions or reasons you disagree.  I don’t like shill bidding practice and I don’t like sniping.  One is a buyer trying to game the system and the other is a seller trying to game the system.  You are free to disagree.

Because your take was THAT absurd. Shill bidding is fraud and has nothing in common with sniping and is most definitely not two sides of the same coin.

11 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I agree shill bidding is no good but when you take the legality of it out of the equation you have a seller gaming the system in place to try to get the most he can get for an item.  I see snipe bidders as attempting to get the item for as cheap as possible by gaming the system in place and preventing people from beating their highest bid.  I’d agree one is more devious but in the end it’s one person trying to get more and one person trying to get less.  I’ll just stay away from auctions all together.

It is pretty clear you don't understand how bidding on eBay works. Why are bidding on an item for less than your highest acceptable bid to begin with? You understand the final hammer price is the result of the underbid + one bid increment and not your actual bid, yes? 

Edited April 28, 2019 by darkstar

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I see snipe bidders as attempting to get the item for as cheap as possible by gaming the system in place and preventing people from beating their highest bid.

Of course the bidders are trying to get the item for as cheap as possible...that's what everybody does, and should do, if they're responsible with their money.

Nobody is preventing anything. It does not matter if I bid $5,000 for a $50 item in the last second of the listing...if someone placed a bid for $6,000 the first day of the listing, I lose.

The only thing a snipe prevents is the opportunity for a previous bidder to reconsider. That's it. And that's entirely on the previous bidder. The presence of an additional, last second bidder does not prevent any other bidder from bidding any amount they think the item is worth. After all...if the sniped bidder was willing to pay more, weren't THEY the ones attempting to get the item for as cheap as possible....?

[lou_fine]

9 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I see snipe bidders as attempting to get the item for as cheap as possible by gaming the system in place and preventing people from beating their highest bid.

Not if the seller gets lucky and have 2 bidders throw in atomic bomb style bids at the end hoping that they can outbid any other reasonable snipe bid that might be coming in at the end.  

[lou_fine]

On 4/26/2019 at 10:33 AM, Hollywood1892 said:

What's the point of buying a book valued at $10.00 when you have to pay an extra $4.25 you might as well buy a string of books.

Why in the world would you buy books you don't really care for just to average down your shipping cost.

If you are worried about the shipping cost, you can just ask the auction house to hold onto the book through future auctions until you have enough to make shipping more worthwhile from a cost efficiency point of view.  Of course, I am not sure if a regular eBay seller would be as accommodating as the major auction houses in terms of being willing to hold onto your books for you.  

[DavidTheDavid]

8 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Why in the world would you buy books you don't really care for just to average down your shipping cost.

If you are worried about the shipping cost, you can just ask the auction house to hold onto the book through future auctions until you have enough to make shipping more worthwhile from a cost efficiency point of view.  Of course, I am not sure if a regular eBay seller would be as accommodating as the major auction houses in terms of being willing to hold onto your books for you.  

Ebay sellers need to ship quickly to meet estimated delivery dates. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by DavidTheDavid

[lou_fine]

3 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Ebay sellers need to ship quickly to meet estimated shipping dates. 

Yes, probably not a good idea for a buyer to hold off on shipping since you don't know how long a random eBay seller might stay in business.

With a major auction house, at least there's a comfort level that they'll still be in business going forward.  I am just surprised they don't charge you a holding fee to hold onto the books for you, especially considering the additional security and insurance charges they might have to incur.  

[kaculler]

Some eBay sellers allow you to win auctions over a two week period and send a new invoice whenever you win something.  You just pay when you're ready.  The ones that I've purchased from that do that have been well established and easy to work with.  

In regard to snipe bidding, I don't use a program, but I will often bid in the last few seconds for auctions that I am interested in.  Sometimes I will put a bid in earlier and leave it at that.  The idea that there is anything wrong with bidding at the last second is absurd.  You may not like it, but there isn't anything wrong with it.

[Hollywood1892]

1 hour ago, kaculler said:

Some eBay sellers allow you to win auctions over a two week period and send a new invoice whenever you win something.  You just pay when you're ready.  The ones that I've purchased from that do that have been well established and easy to work with.  

In regard to snipe bidding, I don't use a program, but I will often bid in the last few seconds for auctions that I am interested in.  Sometimes I will put a bid in earlier and leave it at that.  The idea that there is anything wrong with bidding at the last second is absurd.  You may not like it, but there isn't anything wrong with it.

There really isnt

It's about getting what you want

Wins and losses 

Sometimes you win some,sometimes you lose some.

[Mr Sneeze]

It's been a while for me since I've sold anything on ebay but I have sold some (for me at least) big items in the past and I have welcomed every single snipe because they have made me some decent money on a lot of items.